Help with difficult neighbours and Party Wall Act
Discussion
Hi,
We live in a corner plot detached bungalow and have planning permission granted as well as the go ahead from building regs for an extension. During the notice/consultation process with the neighbours our only neighbour was the only one to object with a myriad of baseless issues(such as loss of privacy, even though we'd make sure that there would be no windows on the wall looking into her property (as our kitchen does at present)) which were dismissed by the council. So it was obvious to us that come time of build they would do whatever they could to make life difficult for us.
Despite this we've tried to be cordial and neighbourly in the best way possible and have served notice under the Party Wall Act as we are building up to the boundary line. For context the existing garage is already on the boundary wall line and we are looking at increasing both height and length of the wall to accommodate the L shaped extension as we are having a dormer and larger kitchen and living area.
Our neighbour had requested that I have another meeting with her daughter which we have done with my builder too, just so they could ask questions etc, and hopefully have some confidence etc. in what is going to happen.
The meeting didn't go to plan as both mother and daughter were very stand offish and proclaimed that they wouldn't allow us access to their property for scaffolding and that apparently I can't build to the boundary as it's within 3 metres of their property and that "I can't build the extension." Appreciate that they're not happy, but surely this cannot be the case?! Daughter alleges that she works in this field of construction and "knows what I'm talking about." I'm somewhat dubious about this claim as I reckon she's bluffing and has just read the .gov.uk website and just verbalised her interpretation of it all. I have pointed out if they refuse to give us access to their property then the builder would have to build overhand and then this would create an unpleasant view from their garden, especially it being approximately 12m long and unrendered. They don't however seem to unpreturbed by this to my surprise.
I mentioned that I wish to keep things civil and I know that the next steps potentially are mediation via a Party Wall surveyor for an agreement and after that has been done, if they are still unhappy it'd be a case of them getting a court injunction to stop the works.
Where do I stand please, as this is the first time I've been through this?
Do I go ahead and get the surveyor to draw up an agreement and then crack on?
Thank you
We live in a corner plot detached bungalow and have planning permission granted as well as the go ahead from building regs for an extension. During the notice/consultation process with the neighbours our only neighbour was the only one to object with a myriad of baseless issues(such as loss of privacy, even though we'd make sure that there would be no windows on the wall looking into her property (as our kitchen does at present)) which were dismissed by the council. So it was obvious to us that come time of build they would do whatever they could to make life difficult for us.
Despite this we've tried to be cordial and neighbourly in the best way possible and have served notice under the Party Wall Act as we are building up to the boundary line. For context the existing garage is already on the boundary wall line and we are looking at increasing both height and length of the wall to accommodate the L shaped extension as we are having a dormer and larger kitchen and living area.
Our neighbour had requested that I have another meeting with her daughter which we have done with my builder too, just so they could ask questions etc, and hopefully have some confidence etc. in what is going to happen.
The meeting didn't go to plan as both mother and daughter were very stand offish and proclaimed that they wouldn't allow us access to their property for scaffolding and that apparently I can't build to the boundary as it's within 3 metres of their property and that "I can't build the extension." Appreciate that they're not happy, but surely this cannot be the case?! Daughter alleges that she works in this field of construction and "knows what I'm talking about." I'm somewhat dubious about this claim as I reckon she's bluffing and has just read the .gov.uk website and just verbalised her interpretation of it all. I have pointed out if they refuse to give us access to their property then the builder would have to build overhand and then this would create an unpleasant view from their garden, especially it being approximately 12m long and unrendered. They don't however seem to unpreturbed by this to my surprise.
I mentioned that I wish to keep things civil and I know that the next steps potentially are mediation via a Party Wall surveyor for an agreement and after that has been done, if they are still unhappy it'd be a case of them getting a court injunction to stop the works.
Where do I stand please, as this is the first time I've been through this?
Do I go ahead and get the surveyor to draw up an agreement and then crack on?
Thank you
Hi there
I'm not an expert, but given the plethora of properties that are closer to each other than 3m, I would struggle to believe this restriction is real.
My folks tried to fight a house being extended closer to the boundary, and despite covenants to the contrary, they did not succeed. (Assuming nothing like main sewers or sub stations are present)
Party wall act will be a slog - I would suggest reading up on it. They can get a surveyor appointed at your expense, but ultimately they can't just block it forever, and ultimately would find themselves on the receiving end of a court injunction.
I don't think there's any right of access for new works (but there is for maintenance).
Good luck!
I'm not an expert, but given the plethora of properties that are closer to each other than 3m, I would struggle to believe this restriction is real.
My folks tried to fight a house being extended closer to the boundary, and despite covenants to the contrary, they did not succeed. (Assuming nothing like main sewers or sub stations are present)
Party wall act will be a slog - I would suggest reading up on it. They can get a surveyor appointed at your expense, but ultimately they can't just block it forever, and ultimately would find themselves on the receiving end of a court injunction.
I don't think there's any right of access for new works (but there is for maintenance).
Good luck!
Edited by Ian Geary on Saturday 11th May 19:39
What gives you the right to expect to plonk scaffolding or access a neighbour’s property because you haven’t planned your build
And overhanging scaffolding is a nuisance
Your builder will be like every other builder, a bs’er
I think you need to step back and think if someone was acting this way towards you how you’d feel.
Your lack of organisation is not the neighbours issue and frankly if you can’t see this I pity them as they probably rightly perceive if you’re this disorganised before the build, what the hell are you going to be like in handling the ongoing build.
A final thought, long after the beasty builder and his radio playing honchos have gone, you will need to live there.
And overhanging scaffolding is a nuisance
Your builder will be like every other builder, a bs’er
I think you need to step back and think if someone was acting this way towards you how you’d feel.
Your lack of organisation is not the neighbours issue and frankly if you can’t see this I pity them as they probably rightly perceive if you’re this disorganised before the build, what the hell are you going to be like in handling the ongoing build.
A final thought, long after the beasty builder and his radio playing honchos have gone, you will need to live there.
brianb said:
Might be a daft question but could you not just build 6” inside the boundary when sweet FA then can do other than be awkward with access?
This is what I did.Some regulations you need to follow around foundation depths, but if you stick within them then you don’t need a party wall agreement.
I would suggest stepping back a bit and imagine the view from next door of your planned changes and try to understand their issues or objections, if the boot was on the other foot, etc. Just because it got through planning doesn't mean it won't be a complete eyesore and living testament to how poor the planning system is.
My neighbour has just gone through this, 2 bungalows next to each other and one is now extended from a 2 bed into 2 storeys, 5 bed with double garage, complete monstrosity, totally overdeveloped and out of keeping with the semi-rural area. It blocks all the evening light even after changes were made to get it past planning. The people who did this made no consideration for others, particularly with contractor parking, I'm not even nextdoor to it but I got blocked in several times by contractors.
My neighbour has just gone through this, 2 bungalows next to each other and one is now extended from a 2 bed into 2 storeys, 5 bed with double garage, complete monstrosity, totally overdeveloped and out of keeping with the semi-rural area. It blocks all the evening light even after changes were made to get it past planning. The people who did this made no consideration for others, particularly with contractor parking, I'm not even nextdoor to it but I got blocked in several times by contractors.
FMOB said:
I would suggest stepping back a bit and imagine the view from next door of your planned changes and try to understand their issues or objections, if the boot was on the other foot, etc. Just because it got through planning doesn't mean it won't be a complete eyesore and living testament to how poor the planning system is.
My neighbour has just gone through this, 2 bungalows next to each other and one is now extended from a 2 bed into 2 storeys, 5 bed with double garage, complete monstrosity, totally overdeveloped and out of keeping with the semi-rural area. It blocks all the evening light even after changes were made to get it past planning. The people who did this made no consideration for others, particularly with contractor parking, I'm not even nextdoor to it but I got blocked in several times by contractors.
I had a lucky escape when my neighbours got planning to do something very similar. Covid hit before they could start which pushed building prices through the roof followed by interest rate rises meaning they had to settle for a single storey extension at the back.My neighbour has just gone through this, 2 bungalows next to each other and one is now extended from a 2 bed into 2 storeys, 5 bed with double garage, complete monstrosity, totally overdeveloped and out of keeping with the semi-rural area. It blocks all the evening light even after changes were made to get it past planning. The people who did this made no consideration for others, particularly with contractor parking, I'm not even nextdoor to it but I got blocked in several times by contractors.
Have they dissented to the notice you served under the Party Wall etc Act?
If they have, then you just need to follow the process under the act. If they haven’t, then when the time comes, issue a ten day notice and, you guessed it, follow the act - this is literally why it exists.
Who served the notice? Have you asked them?
If they have, then you just need to follow the process under the act. If they haven’t, then when the time comes, issue a ten day notice and, you guessed it, follow the act - this is literally why it exists.
Who served the notice? Have you asked them?
DaveA8 said:
What gives you the right to expect to plonk scaffolding or access a neighbour’s property because you haven’t planned your build
And overhanging scaffolding is a nuisance
Your builder will be like every other builder, a bs’er
I think you need to step back and think if someone was acting this way towards you how you’d feel.
Your lack of organisation is not the neighbours issue and frankly if you can’t see this I pity them as they probably rightly perceive if you’re this disorganised before the build, what the hell are you going to be like in handling the ongoing build.
A final thought, long after the beasty builder and his radio playing honchos have gone, you will need to live there.
+1 And overhanging scaffolding is a nuisance
Your builder will be like every other builder, a bs’er
I think you need to step back and think if someone was acting this way towards you how you’d feel.
Your lack of organisation is not the neighbours issue and frankly if you can’t see this I pity them as they probably rightly perceive if you’re this disorganised before the build, what the hell are you going to be like in handling the ongoing build.
A final thought, long after the beasty builder and his radio playing honchos have gone, you will need to live there.
Why didn’t the OP consult with neighbours about his plans rather than being an arse?
Just because you don't mind having somebody else's scaffolding in your garden (or at least are of that opinion now that you need yours in someone else's garden), doesn't mean that you have the right to expect everybody else to be ok with that too. In fact, most people wouldn't be happy with scaffolding in their garden unless it's for their own benefit. It's ugly, it takes up space, and the feet will destroy whatever plants are under them, be they lawn, flower border or shrubs, and all sorts of crap and waste will rain down from the scaffolding to their garden what with builders not being known for being the tidiest of workers.
Much as they don't have the right to stop you building your extension, you don't have the right to set foot on their land to build it, or even to have your extension protrude over into their land. If you needed access to their land, instead of going on the war path with your neighbour, you should've been much more conciliatory and willing to compromise from the outset. An unrendered wall won't make much of a difference to them, they'll be able to effectively screen with plants, trellises, etc. It will potentially cause you problems with your property though depending on what the wall will be constructed from, water penetration or similar problems with concrete blocks. You might be best advised to alter your plans a bit to take into account the fact that you don't have access to land you don't own, or go on a charm offensive with your neighbours.
Much as they don't have the right to stop you building your extension, you don't have the right to set foot on their land to build it, or even to have your extension protrude over into their land. If you needed access to their land, instead of going on the war path with your neighbour, you should've been much more conciliatory and willing to compromise from the outset. An unrendered wall won't make much of a difference to them, they'll be able to effectively screen with plants, trellises, etc. It will potentially cause you problems with your property though depending on what the wall will be constructed from, water penetration or similar problems with concrete blocks. You might be best advised to alter your plans a bit to take into account the fact that you don't have access to land you don't own, or go on a charm offensive with your neighbours.
visitinglondon said:
DaveA8 said:
What gives you the right to expect to plonk scaffolding or access a neighbour’s property because you haven’t planned your build
And overhanging scaffolding is a nuisance
Your builder will be like every other builder, a bs’er
I think you need to step back and think if someone was acting this way towards you how you’d feel.
Your lack of organisation is not the neighbours issue and frankly if you can’t see this I pity them as they probably rightly perceive if you’re this disorganised before the build, what the hell are you going to be like in handling the ongoing build.
A final thought, long after the beasty builder and his radio playing honchos have gone, you will need to live there.
+1 And overhanging scaffolding is a nuisance
Your builder will be like every other builder, a bs’er
I think you need to step back and think if someone was acting this way towards you how you’d feel.
Your lack of organisation is not the neighbours issue and frankly if you can’t see this I pity them as they probably rightly perceive if you’re this disorganised before the build, what the hell are you going to be like in handling the ongoing build.
A final thought, long after the beasty builder and his radio playing honchos have gone, you will need to live there.
Why didn’t the OP consult with neighbours about his plans rather than being an arse?
could you anybody tell/show me where in his posts he has been "an arse"? QuickQuack said:
Much as they don't have the right to stop you building your extension, you don't have the right to set foot on their land to build it, or even to have your extension protrude over into their land. If you needed access to their land,.
If you are going to chip in on a threat about the Party Wall Matters, it might be a good idea to have some knowledge about it.I don’t have time for a derailed response OP, but there is a lot of rubbish being spouted on this thread.
See my reply above: take some professional advice and follow the Party Wall Act.
A friend of mine did this. He said afterwards that he couldn't understand why his neighbour was hostile to him. His extension was hideously invasive looking at it. Completely out of keeping with the neighbours houses on the street 
Yes you can put scaffolding on a neighbours land to build a wall. As with many now here in this once green and pleasant land let's not think of neighbours.
Yes you can put scaffolding on a neighbours land to build a wall. As with many now here in this once green and pleasant land let's not think of neighbours.
dickymint said:
could you anybody tell/show me where in his posts he has been "an arse"? It’s the other posters build, it confounds me how when someone is about to build suddenly all neighbours should be one big happy accommodative family.
We all that the builder will whatever to get cracking and then just do as they wish whether it’s working hours, noise, dirt or parking
The builder will tell both the client and the neighbours that he’s putting his top project manager on this one, in reality that’s Darren who was happily sawing wood 6 months ago but now has extensive experience or he only uses the best and most considerate subbies, in other words he will allow them to carry on as they like whether that’s noise, dust or parking because he is frightened that if he asks them to be considerate that they’ll look elsewhere
Your builders will damage or destroy your neighbours property and then deny it, they will be loud, inconsiderate and your neighbour will end up being their own building control.
I bet in the so called meeting you had the builder said the dreaded words “ this isn’t our first rodeo”, those crininge worthy words about sum it up.
I feel for the other posters neighbours as whilst they may not not the specifics of what’s ahead, intuitively his actions to date give them a flavour of it.
That the other poster doesn’t see that his Architect, builder and all the subbies are a cabal and no one in that crew cares for the longer term relationships of him and his neighbours,
His build is his thing, it shouldn’t impinge beyond what is reasonable on his neighbour
I am always amazed at the number of people who don't consult their neighbours when applying for planning, along with the number of jobbing architects who have no knowledge of the PWA.and don't factor this into the scheme.
We had one recently in our village where the owner wanted to add a storey onto his bungalow and extend onto the boundary. Didn't talk to his neighbours who all put in objections. He got his planning, but then became the most hated man in the street. I still don't understand how he got planning as it contravened the Parish Plan which clearly said that bungalows should be left as bungalows due to a shortage in the village. I believe the council chairman had to use a casting vote.
The property is now on the market with the benefit of the planning (and not selling). I wonder if any prospective purchaser would get as far as reading the objections letters on the portal.
We had one recently in our village where the owner wanted to add a storey onto his bungalow and extend onto the boundary. Didn't talk to his neighbours who all put in objections. He got his planning, but then became the most hated man in the street. I still don't understand how he got planning as it contravened the Parish Plan which clearly said that bungalows should be left as bungalows due to a shortage in the village. I believe the council chairman had to use a casting vote.
The property is now on the market with the benefit of the planning (and not selling). I wonder if any prospective purchaser would get as far as reading the objections letters on the portal.
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