Would 8 owners and delayed servicing put you off?
Discussion
I'm in the market for a 997.2 C2S.
I want a manual but am coming round to the idea of a PDK. Possibly!
So, I'm looking at a beautiful car at Ashgoods: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024032178...
I'm still not sure on the PDK thing, but other than that, it ticks all my boxes (apart from the steering wheel, I'd need that swapping for a Sport Design item).
However, given it's had 8 owners and 2 services in the first 5 years, would this put you off? Much as I hate resell talk, it's an issue I have to take into account...
Decent (my spec - full leather, PSE, sports seats, preferably no rear wiper) manual 997.2s are like hens teeth, so keep waiting or seriously consider a PDK?
The other one that ticks my boxes is the black manual C2S with an aerokit. Currently up at £60k, despite not selling at £56k and £54k a couple of months ago: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024012960...
Opinions please...
I want a manual but am coming round to the idea of a PDK. Possibly!
So, I'm looking at a beautiful car at Ashgoods: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024032178...
I'm still not sure on the PDK thing, but other than that, it ticks all my boxes (apart from the steering wheel, I'd need that swapping for a Sport Design item).
However, given it's had 8 owners and 2 services in the first 5 years, would this put you off? Much as I hate resell talk, it's an issue I have to take into account...
Decent (my spec - full leather, PSE, sports seats, preferably no rear wiper) manual 997.2s are like hens teeth, so keep waiting or seriously consider a PDK?
The other one that ticks my boxes is the black manual C2S with an aerokit. Currently up at £60k, despite not selling at £56k and £54k a couple of months ago: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024012960...
Opinions please...
Yes it would. But I’m fussy with stuff like that. Looking at 718s with 3 owners in 3 years but that to me, tells me that some of those knew they wouldn’t keeping it for long and probably looked after it accordingly. Eg drove it hard when cold etc. that’s just my perception/opinion however and I can’t even bring myself to thrash my leased cars when cold!
The owners could put some off but the service history wouldn’t for me. 2020 to 2022 were the Covid years - lock down. No one was driving cars during that period and this car covered under 1k miles or so, so that’s not an issue. The price seems keen as well.
Manuals are good but they’re long geared, heavy clutch and not that great in stop start traffic. For red lining mine, it’s really only good for 2nd and 3rd and then you’re in licence losing territory. Therese cars come into their own at 4k revs and beyond. The PDK should be just as good.
If it ticks your boxes get it bought.
Manuals are good but they’re long geared, heavy clutch and not that great in stop start traffic. For red lining mine, it’s really only good for 2nd and 3rd and then you’re in licence losing territory. Therese cars come into their own at 4k revs and beyond. The PDK should be just as good.
If it ticks your boxes get it bought.
Puts some buyers off - as your reticence is showing.
However, on the upside, it will have been prepped for sale 8 times, and fettled by 8 sets of owners (some of whom may have gone through everything on the car).
As ever, view it and drive it, and buy on condition and how it feels on the road.
It may be a cracker. If it isn't, walk.
However, on the upside, it will have been prepped for sale 8 times, and fettled by 8 sets of owners (some of whom may have gone through everything on the car).
As ever, view it and drive it, and buy on condition and how it feels on the road.
It may be a cracker. If it isn't, walk.
maz8062 said:
The owners could put some off but the service history wouldn’t for me. 2020 to 2022 were the Covid years - lock down. No one was driving cars during that period and this car covered under 1k miles or so, so that’s not an issue. The price seems keen as well.
Manuals are good but they’re long geared, heavy clutch and not that great in stop start traffic. For red lining mine, it’s really only good for 2nd and 3rd and then you’re in licence losing territory. Therese cars come into their own at 4k revs and beyond. The PDK should be just as good.
If it ticks your boxes get it bought.
Non-GT manual 997.2’s are shorter geared than the 997 GT cars, never mind cars like the 981 GT4 etc.Manuals are good but they’re long geared, heavy clutch and not that great in stop start traffic. For red lining mine, it’s really only good for 2nd and 3rd and then you’re in licence losing territory. Therese cars come into their own at 4k revs and beyond. The PDK should be just as good.
If it ticks your boxes get it bought.
If the clutch is heavy, it’s either worn, the hydraulic fluid needs changing, or the pivot points on the release fork are in need of lubrication, ditto the release bearing.
If the car’s not nice to drive in traffic, it’ll be because of one of the above.
The 997.2 PDK is first generation, and it shows.
The 997.2 manual ‘box shift is up there with the very best, and you have the option of further reducing its throw with the factory short-shift.
Discombobulate said:
However, on the upside, it will have been prepped for sale 8 times, and fettled by 8 sets of owners (some of whom may have gone through everything on the car).
That seems rather optimistic. With a high turnover car, I suspect just as likely it's been punted on after a short ownership with the aim being minimise the spend. You may have different experiences, but I'm always amazed at how little most people are willing to invest in cars like this. And with the (I'd suggest) ridiculous two year / 20k official service intervals, a fair few owners may well have bought and sold without investing anything in the car.All the examples I have bought over the years that needed the most prep work to get them feeling factory fresh have tended to be the low owner cars, especially if the car has had the same owner for the last few years.
I don't think this is because they don't care, I just think they don't notice when things slowly age, as the car gets a bit tired. We all tend to get a new car and then get it to how we expect it to be.
Now, I am not saying a car that has had 3 owners over the last 18 months is also a good buy, that would set off alarm bells.
But that car is coming up to 16 years old, many 1st owners only keep a 911 for 12 months or so, same with the second and often 3rd, then they tend to keep owners a but longer. But 8 owners in 16 years is not that strange. An average ownership of 2-3 years is not unusual on a car like this imho.
But as this thread has shown, the UK has a real issue with the number of owners and even more so with mileage, while virtually nothing goes towards work been done.
You still see 2 owner 50k mile cars that are 15 years old and will probably need £10k of work to get them feeling like new getting £45k compared to £30k for an 8 owner car with 90k miles that has just had £5k of suspension work, £3k of coolant and brake lines, £1500 worth of clutch, flywheel, transmission mount and new engine mounts.
We seem to buy cars based on photos, number of owners and how many miles on the clock and not a lot else.
I don't think this is because they don't care, I just think they don't notice when things slowly age, as the car gets a bit tired. We all tend to get a new car and then get it to how we expect it to be.
Now, I am not saying a car that has had 3 owners over the last 18 months is also a good buy, that would set off alarm bells.
But that car is coming up to 16 years old, many 1st owners only keep a 911 for 12 months or so, same with the second and often 3rd, then they tend to keep owners a but longer. But 8 owners in 16 years is not that strange. An average ownership of 2-3 years is not unusual on a car like this imho.
But as this thread has shown, the UK has a real issue with the number of owners and even more so with mileage, while virtually nothing goes towards work been done.
You still see 2 owner 50k mile cars that are 15 years old and will probably need £10k of work to get them feeling like new getting £45k compared to £30k for an 8 owner car with 90k miles that has just had £5k of suspension work, £3k of coolant and brake lines, £1500 worth of clutch, flywheel, transmission mount and new engine mounts.
We seem to buy cars based on photos, number of owners and how many miles on the clock and not a lot else.
Some good replies, thank you!
Best to wait for a good manual then...
If anyone has or knows one coming up for sale, please DM me or put a post here.
Minimum spec MUST be: PSE, extended leather, <40k miles, sports seats.
My nice to haves would be: PCCBs, no sunroof, no rear wiper, painted centre console, Carrera Classic wheels, LSD, sport chrono, sport shifter and the newer sport design steering wheel.
Much appreciated all!
Best to wait for a good manual then...
If anyone has or knows one coming up for sale, please DM me or put a post here.
Minimum spec MUST be: PSE, extended leather, <40k miles, sports seats.
My nice to haves would be: PCCBs, no sunroof, no rear wiper, painted centre console, Carrera Classic wheels, LSD, sport chrono, sport shifter and the newer sport design steering wheel.
Much appreciated all!
Billy_Whizzzz said:
I had terrible experience with Ashgoods buying a 997 that turned out to be a rust bucket underneath. And yes, 8 owners would pit me off.
997s are getting notorious for problems as they age in that regard, worse than 996's in that regard, the amount of steel and ally mixed makes them a nightmare, 991's are looking like they are going to be worse again. Hence why condition and documentation of work already done as they get closer and closer to 15 years old is so important. Unless you are not going to use it much yourself or are going to keep it forever and not care about the upkeep costs going forward.
My mates 2010 needed a couple of new drop links recently and they had to remove the wheel carriers to get them out on both sides in the end. Should be a 30 minute job both sides, turned into a 10 hour nightmare.
Don't presume because it is £45k for a 15 year old car it will be trouble free.
I would say hold out for the manual you actually want, and not saying buy a 100k miler, but don't limit yourself to a car with sub 40k miles either, a car that has averaged 50 miles a week is not great on these imho.
Buy on condition, condition and condition.
Jim1556 said:
Some good replies, thank you!
Best to wait for a good manual then...
If anyone has or knows one coming up for sale, please DM me or put a post here.
Minimum spec MUST be: PSE, extended leather, <40k miles, sports seats.
My nice to haves would be: PCCBs, no sunroof, no rear wiper, painted centre console, Carrera Classic wheels, LSD, sport chrono, sport shifter and the newer sport design steering wheel.
Much appreciated all!
Why not then the other one you listed?Best to wait for a good manual then...
If anyone has or knows one coming up for sale, please DM me or put a post here.
Minimum spec MUST be: PSE, extended leather, <40k miles, sports seats.
My nice to haves would be: PCCBs, no sunroof, no rear wiper, painted centre console, Carrera Classic wheels, LSD, sport chrono, sport shifter and the newer sport design steering wheel.
Much appreciated all!
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401296...
Ed.Neumann said:
997s are getting notorious for problems as they age in that regard, worse than 996's in that regard, the amount of steel and ally mixed makes them a nightmare, 991's are looking like they are going to be worse again.
Hence why condition and documentation of work already done as they get closer and closer to 15 years old is so important. Unless you are not going to use it much yourself or are going to keep it forever and not care about the upkeep costs going forward.
My mates 2010 needed a couple of new drop links recently and they had to remove the wheel carriers to get them out on both sides in the end. Should be a 30 minute job both sides, turned into a 10 hour nightmare.
Don't presume because it is £45k for a 15 year old car it will be trouble free.
I would say hold out for the manual you actually want, and not saying buy a 100k miler, but don't limit yourself to a car with sub 40k miles either, a car that has averaged 50 miles a week is not great on these imho.
Buy on condition, condition and condition.
Amateurs Hence why condition and documentation of work already done as they get closer and closer to 15 years old is so important. Unless you are not going to use it much yourself or are going to keep it forever and not care about the upkeep costs going forward.
My mates 2010 needed a couple of new drop links recently and they had to remove the wheel carriers to get them out on both sides in the end. Should be a 30 minute job both sides, turned into a 10 hour nightmare.
Don't presume because it is £45k for a 15 year old car it will be trouble free.
I would say hold out for the manual you actually want, and not saying buy a 100k miler, but don't limit yourself to a car with sub 40k miles either, a car that has averaged 50 miles a week is not great on these imho.
Buy on condition, condition and condition.
But that problem doesn't just affect 997's, it just as common with 996's too.
My 2001 996 C2 with 68k miles on it, has been "properly" maintained, and every nut & bolt had been treated with aluminium paste in its past. Not one suspension component was seized when we came to replace it all last September.
I did a complete suspension overhaul on 997.1 a few weeks ago, and both the toe and camber adjustment bolts on both sides on the rear suspension were partially seized in the bush sleeves. Fortunately they came out without too much effort.
However the inner bolts on the front coffin arms were properly seized in the bush sleeves and had to be cut off, which necessitated dropping the front crossmember (but we were were planning on doing coolant crossover pipes anyway, so dropping the front crossmember made doing them far easier)
Both front struts were seized in the uprights along with the anti roll bar droplink pinch bolts being seized in the uprights too. It made for a busy afternoon
All the above completely avoidable with the diligent use of some aluminium paste ...
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