Conspiracy theorists... are they all just a bit thick?
Discussion
740EVTORQUES said:
Isaldiri,
As you well must know public health messaging is intended to give people a sense of reality in order to make good decisions.
You can certainly argue that saying it was ‘almost all unvaccinated clogging up hospitals/ ICU’ would be straying beyond a strictly correct description of those data.
But you can also quite legitimately say that it correctly gave a sense of the fact that vaccination significantly reduced the risk of ICU admission, which is what those graphs clearly show (and similar data exist for serious illness and death).
You’re a classic data wonk, more interested in the minutae than the message.
Public health messaging is inherently political, you might not like that fact, but it is a necessary part of the job. You would rather argue the detail even in the knowledge that such recherché ramblings will be used by CTs to feed their biases. The fact that you see your point as supporting your view while others see it as undermining it is case in point.
Whether that makes you a CT depends on your motivation and is purely speculation and hence pointless.
Public health messaging should be about giving people the (correct) information such that they can make good decisions themselves, at least to me. Not about telling people whatever one thinks will make them make that decide on the 'right' thing.As you well must know public health messaging is intended to give people a sense of reality in order to make good decisions.
You can certainly argue that saying it was ‘almost all unvaccinated clogging up hospitals/ ICU’ would be straying beyond a strictly correct description of those data.
But you can also quite legitimately say that it correctly gave a sense of the fact that vaccination significantly reduced the risk of ICU admission, which is what those graphs clearly show (and similar data exist for serious illness and death).
You’re a classic data wonk, more interested in the minutae than the message.
Public health messaging is inherently political, you might not like that fact, but it is a necessary part of the job. You would rather argue the detail even in the knowledge that such recherché ramblings will be used by CTs to feed their biases. The fact that you see your point as supporting your view while others see it as undermining it is case in point.
Whether that makes you a CT depends on your motivation and is purely speculation and hence pointless.
My point was exactly what you mention above - namely that it 'gave a sense of the fact that vaccination significantly reduced the risk of ICU admission'. That absolutely was true but using something that was, at minimum 'straying beyond a strictly correct description of those data.', if not outright blatantly incorrect by stating it was all bad unvaccinated people clogging up hospitals was undermining confidence in that public health messaging because it could (and was) shown to clearly be a misrepresentation. when the message doesn't fit the minutae, there's going to be a bit of an obvious problem for maintaining confidence after that I'd suggest. Doubling down as many did to attack those making that point simply worsens the issue.
PHE and Ukhsa had plenty of actually correct statistics that showed the risks post infection were lower between the groups - just because one might think the unvaccinated in hospitals spiel was a better push factor to (at that point pointlessly) get more younger people to take the vaccines doesn't mean it was a good idea at all. That argument of doing things 'for the greater good' without much consideration for unforeseen consequences that the government and public health officials have defaulted far too quickly over the pandemic has imo been a direct contributor to that environment that you so deplore about conspiracy theorists feeding their own biases.
MattsCar said:
So, from what I have seen from friends of friends on social media, the most informed and knowledgeable on the ways of this world, that I don't seem to know about, tend to have these traits.
1) Low end job/ unemployed, or jobs in an organisation where they haven't progressed in many years.
2) Cannabis/ Alcohol addiction.
3) Broken family life.
4) Lots of time on their hands.
5) Lots of Peaky Blinders/ The Joker quotes on their profile.
I guess this is the system working against them and they have been forced in to their place by the "system".
The common denominator for being a CT is arrogance, they all have it. 1) Low end job/ unemployed, or jobs in an organisation where they haven't progressed in many years.
2) Cannabis/ Alcohol addiction.
3) Broken family life.
4) Lots of time on their hands.
5) Lots of Peaky Blinders/ The Joker quotes on their profile.
I guess this is the system working against them and they have been forced in to their place by the "system".
isaldiri said:
740EVTORQUES said:
Isaldiri,
As you well must know public health messaging is intended to give people a sense of reality in order to make good decisions.
You can certainly argue that saying it was ‘almost all unvaccinated clogging up hospitals/ ICU’ would be straying beyond a strictly correct description of those data.
But you can also quite legitimately say that it correctly gave a sense of the fact that vaccination significantly reduced the risk of ICU admission, which is what those graphs clearly show (and similar data exist for serious illness and death).
You’re a classic data wonk, more interested in the minutae than the message.
Public health messaging is inherently political, you might not like that fact, but it is a necessary part of the job. You would rather argue the detail even in the knowledge that such recherché ramblings will be used by CTs to feed their biases. The fact that you see your point as supporting your view while others see it as undermining it is case in point.
Whether that makes you a CT depends on your motivation and is purely speculation and hence pointless.
Public health messaging should be about giving people the (correct) information such that they can make good decisions themselves, at least to me. Not about telling people whatever one thinks will make them make that decide on the 'right' thing.As you well must know public health messaging is intended to give people a sense of reality in order to make good decisions.
You can certainly argue that saying it was ‘almost all unvaccinated clogging up hospitals/ ICU’ would be straying beyond a strictly correct description of those data.
But you can also quite legitimately say that it correctly gave a sense of the fact that vaccination significantly reduced the risk of ICU admission, which is what those graphs clearly show (and similar data exist for serious illness and death).
You’re a classic data wonk, more interested in the minutae than the message.
Public health messaging is inherently political, you might not like that fact, but it is a necessary part of the job. You would rather argue the detail even in the knowledge that such recherché ramblings will be used by CTs to feed their biases. The fact that you see your point as supporting your view while others see it as undermining it is case in point.
Whether that makes you a CT depends on your motivation and is purely speculation and hence pointless.
My point was exactly what you mention above - namely that it 'gave a sense of the fact that vaccination significantly reduced the risk of ICU admission'. That absolutely was true but using something that was, at minimum 'straying beyond a strictly correct description of those data.', if not outright blatantly incorrect by stating it was all bad unvaccinated people clogging up hospitals was undermining confidence in that public health messaging because it could (and was) shown to clearly be a misrepresentation. when the message doesn't fit the minutae, there's going to be a bit of an obvious problem for maintaining confidence after that I'd suggest. Doubling down as many did to attack those making that point simply worsens the issue.
PHE and Ukhsa had plenty of actually correct statistics that showed the risks post infection were lower between the groups - just because one might think the unvaccinated in hospitals spiel was a better push factor to (at that point pointlessly) get more younger people to take the vaccines doesn't mean it was a good idea at all. That argument of doing things 'for the greater good' without much consideration for unforeseen consequences that the government and public health officials have defaulted far too quickly over the pandemic has imo been a direct contributor to that environment that you so deplore about conspiracy theorists feeding their own biases.
But either way as you say, it’s going to be harder to strike the right balance next time for sure.
MattsCar said:
So, from what I have seen from friends of friends on social media, the most informed and knowledgeable on the ways of this world, that I don't seem to know about, tend to have these traits.
1) Low end job/ unemployed, or jobs in an organisation where they haven't progressed in many years.
2) Cannabis/ Alcohol addiction.
3) Broken family life.
4) Lots of time on their hands.
5) Lots of Peaky Blinders/ The Joker quotes on their profile.
I guess this is the system working against them and they have been forced in to their place by the "system".
This just seems to be an issue of people you are friends with to be honest, CTers are from all demographics. 1) Low end job/ unemployed, or jobs in an organisation where they haven't progressed in many years.
2) Cannabis/ Alcohol addiction.
3) Broken family life.
4) Lots of time on their hands.
5) Lots of Peaky Blinders/ The Joker quotes on their profile.
I guess this is the system working against them and they have been forced in to their place by the "system".
Notch 8 said:
GeneralBanter said:
People railing into the wind about what happened 3 years ago is just weird. We know the vax worked on a number of levels and without it the NHS would have collapsed, but some just can’t let go.
Probably because they just have to be ‘right’ about something, anything!They made a wrong bet 3+ years ago and rather than just walk it back and move on they have to invent even more wilder fantasies to try and maintain the illusion that they were never wrong.
It's the opposite of the scientific mindset where you make conclusions based on available evidence, when new evidence becomes available you re-evaluate your conclusions with the new evidence in mind. Being wrong is a part of the process and nothing to be feared, hell we learn more from being wrong half the time.
One of my favourite sayings about science is "few discoveries are heralded by shouts of "eureka", most discoveries start out with muttering "hmm, that's odd".
Tankrizzo said:
Legacywr said:
The common denominator for being a CT is arrogance, they all have it.
Absolutely this, you can see it on threads like the Covid one. It's not enough that they see "the truth", everyone else must be stupid sheep too. Just a seriously misplaced superiority complex.Taking the so far sensible isaldiri/740 conversation above. Yes of course public health messaging had to be simple stupid - trying to herd 68 million people to point in the same direction was no mean feat. But it wasn't always accurate - there simply wasn't the bandwidth for it to be nuanced.
Any sensible person can understand this and the rationale for doing it. That doesn't make you a CT, nor does it make you arrogant.
And yet when people pointed this out at the time, the absolutist vitriol on here was absurd. It was like trying to have conversations with zealots - people with 'a seriously misplaced superiority complex'
ben5575 said:
That works both ways of course.
Taking the so far sensible isaldiri/740 conversation above. Yes of course public health messaging had to be simple stupid - trying to herd 68 million people to point in the same direction was no mean feat. But it wasn't always accurate - there simply wasn't the bandwidth for it to be nuanced.
Any sensible person can understand this and the rationale for doing it. That doesn't make you a CT, nor does it make you arrogant.
And yet when people pointed this out at the time, the absolutist vitriol on here was absurd. It was like trying to have conversations with zealots - people with 'a seriously misplaced superiority complex'
That’s the point. The CT nutters want to forensically analyse with zero leeway an exceptional and totally unforeseen national crisis- and point their little stubby fingers at everyone they can.Taking the so far sensible isaldiri/740 conversation above. Yes of course public health messaging had to be simple stupid - trying to herd 68 million people to point in the same direction was no mean feat. But it wasn't always accurate - there simply wasn't the bandwidth for it to be nuanced.
Any sensible person can understand this and the rationale for doing it. That doesn't make you a CT, nor does it make you arrogant.
And yet when people pointed this out at the time, the absolutist vitriol on here was absurd. It was like trying to have conversations with zealots - people with 'a seriously misplaced superiority complex'
ben5575 said:
Tankrizzo said:
Legacywr said:
The common denominator for being a CT is arrogance, they all have it.
Absolutely this, you can see it on threads like the Covid one. It's not enough that they see "the truth", everyone else must be stupid sheep too. Just a seriously misplaced superiority complex.Taking the so far sensible isaldiri/740 conversation above. Yes of course public health messaging had to be simple stupid - trying to herd 68 million people to point in the same direction was no mean feat. But it wasn't always accurate - there simply wasn't the bandwidth for it to be nuanced.
Any sensible person can understand this and the rationale for doing it. That doesn't make you a CT, nor does it make you arrogant.
And yet when people pointed this out at the time, the absolutist vitriol on here was absurd. It was like trying to have conversations with zealots - people with 'a seriously misplaced superiority complex'
I've just been at the Ring for a few days and while there happened to look up and notice quite a few contrails overhead. I happened to mention this out loud whereupon it was pointed out to me that there had been a rebranding event to make them sound a bit more cool and that I should now refer to them as Chemtrails. Which is clearly absolutely fine and I have no issue with how things wish to be identified. What no one could tell me was if there was a pronoun risk with chemtrails that I needed to be aware of in case one is accidentally charged with a hate crime.
Previously I had heard of these chemtrail things but I hadn't realised they were the same as contrails. This was an interesting revelation but lead to a lot of unanswered questions we were all at a loss over.
What is in the chemicals that we are being dozed with? Is it the lizards or Jews who operate the canisters? And what happens to the aircraft when they reach the end of the planet? Do they all end up in space?
Previously I had heard of these chemtrail things but I hadn't realised they were the same as contrails. This was an interesting revelation but lead to a lot of unanswered questions we were all at a loss over.
What is in the chemicals that we are being dozed with? Is it the lizards or Jews who operate the canisters? And what happens to the aircraft when they reach the end of the planet? Do they all end up in space?
Gordon Hill said:
ben5575 said:
Tankrizzo said:
Legacywr said:
The common denominator for being a CT is arrogance, they all have it.
Absolutely this, you can see it on threads like the Covid one. It's not enough that they see "the truth", everyone else must be stupid sheep too. Just a seriously misplaced superiority complex.Taking the so far sensible isaldiri/740 conversation above. Yes of course public health messaging had to be simple stupid - trying to herd 68 million people to point in the same direction was no mean feat. But it wasn't always accurate - there simply wasn't the bandwidth for it to be nuanced.
Any sensible person can understand this and the rationale for doing it. That doesn't make you a CT, nor does it make you arrogant.
And yet when people pointed this out at the time, the absolutist vitriol on here was absurd. It was like trying to have conversations with zealots - people with 'a seriously misplaced superiority complex'
DonkeyApple said:
I've just been at the Ring for a few days and while there happened to look up and notice quite a few contrails overhead. I happened to mention this out loud whereupon it was pointed out to me that there had been a rebranding event to make them sound a bit more cool and that I should now refer to them as Chemtrails. Which is clearly absolutely fine and I have no issue with how things wish to be identified. What no one could tell me was if there was a pronoun risk with chemtrails that I needed to be aware of in case one is accidentally charged with a hate crime.
Previously I had heard of these chemtrail things but I hadn't realised they were the same as contrails. This was an interesting revelation but lead to a lot of unanswered questions we were all at a loss over.
What is in the chemicals that we are being dozed with? Is it the lizards or Jews who operate the canisters? And what happens to the aircraft when they reach the end of the planet? Do they all end up in space?
I do wonder whether flat earthers believe that space exists or not.Previously I had heard of these chemtrail things but I hadn't realised they were the same as contrails. This was an interesting revelation but lead to a lot of unanswered questions we were all at a loss over.
What is in the chemicals that we are being dozed with? Is it the lizards or Jews who operate the canisters? And what happens to the aircraft when they reach the end of the planet? Do they all end up in space?
I’ve seen some claim that the moon is a hologram, and that space is CGI generated!
They can’t explain how we were fooled by space, and how the universe was presented before CGI was a thing though of course.
Thick as mince.
Edited by Notch 8 on Sunday 12th May 12:08
GeneralBanter said:
Just had this notification from Twitter re a daft chemtrail post I responded to last week, so maybe they are having a purge of CT nonsense. They’ve also deleted the original post.
I don't know anyone far enough down the rabbit hole to ask......but where does chemtrails end and cloud seeding begin?
thatsprettyshady said:
This just seems to be an issue of people you are friends with to be honest, CTers are from all demographics.
Not my friends, friends of friends, as per original post. Can't say any of my friends or people I know are conspiracy theorists. Gordon Hill said:
Seems like you spend too much time on social media jumping to the wrong conclusions.
Maybe I need to spend more time on there, like yourself, so I can get a fair sample of people and then report back and confirm that your findings are correct and that they exist in all walks of life. Just saying what I have seen, you maybe totally correct.Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff