Tenant with arrears: accept payment plan or straight to MCOL
Discussion
I don’t think you’ll get anywhere further with MCOL than with a payment plan if the tenant isn’t able to pay.
Be careful if you do go down MCOL as some of the additional £3k you are after is unreasonable. Changing locks is on you and second hand furniture can’t reasonably be replaced with new. These could slow down the process and invalidate the claim.
Be careful if you do go down MCOL as some of the additional £3k you are after is unreasonable. Changing locks is on you and second hand furniture can’t reasonably be replaced with new. These could slow down the process and invalidate the claim.
Sadly it seems both your tenant and you are not dealing with the likely reality of the situation.
People who owe others money often can’t acknowledge that they’ve acted like complete rubbish.
They are often deluded and talk grandly of payment plans and doing the honourable thing, I once got strung along for months by someone who told me they’d sort it but there was always a problem, I call it the dog ate my homework syndrome because when looked at objectively, the excuses are that ridiculous
On the other hand, I dealt with it badly as I couldn’t bring myself to see reality even as the umpteenth time of being let down, given my experience with losses I’ve got better at seeing them
I write this since if you are chasing smoke and based on what you say about the 8 months rent and the state of the place, unless the debtor has some assets or there is a guarantor, how likely are they to pay back rent to you and still have current commitments, they might but grand ideas about payment plans etc aren’t money, ask them for their proposal and an immediate 1st instalment, if they pay great but don’t write any cheques against it
People like your tenant can’t accept their actions so concoct scenarios to distance themselves
The point is do you keep putting time and money into this or accept the loss and only you will know but keep an open mind
People who owe others money often can’t acknowledge that they’ve acted like complete rubbish.
They are often deluded and talk grandly of payment plans and doing the honourable thing, I once got strung along for months by someone who told me they’d sort it but there was always a problem, I call it the dog ate my homework syndrome because when looked at objectively, the excuses are that ridiculous
On the other hand, I dealt with it badly as I couldn’t bring myself to see reality even as the umpteenth time of being let down, given my experience with losses I’ve got better at seeing them
I write this since if you are chasing smoke and based on what you say about the 8 months rent and the state of the place, unless the debtor has some assets or there is a guarantor, how likely are they to pay back rent to you and still have current commitments, they might but grand ideas about payment plans etc aren’t money, ask them for their proposal and an immediate 1st instalment, if they pay great but don’t write any cheques against it
People like your tenant can’t accept their actions so concoct scenarios to distance themselves
The point is do you keep putting time and money into this or accept the loss and only you will know but keep an open mind
48k said:
Here's how this works.
1. The OP won't be getting any money.
2. The OP can raise an MCOL, and they can win.
3. See item 1.
IME it's cheaper to write if off, turn the property around and get a tenant in there paying rent asap than it is to try and get money out of a non paying ex tenant even with a MCOL victory on your side.
^^^This, court order with agreement to make regular payments, payments stop, back to court, lower payments agreed, payments again stop, back again to court, lower payments again agreed, and repeated, repeated, repeated etc. etc. Total grief for the OP, throwing good money after bad. 1. The OP won't be getting any money.
2. The OP can raise an MCOL, and they can win.
3. See item 1.
IME it's cheaper to write if off, turn the property around and get a tenant in there paying rent asap than it is to try and get money out of a non paying ex tenant even with a MCOL victory on your side.
Wings said:
48k said:
Here's how this works.
1. The OP won't be getting any money.
2. The OP can raise an MCOL, and they can win.
3. See item 1.
IME it's cheaper to write if off, turn the property around and get a tenant in there paying rent asap than it is to try and get money out of a non paying ex tenant even with a MCOL victory on your side.
^^^This, court order with agreement to make regular payments, payments stop, back to court, lower payments agreed, payments again stop, back again to court, lower payments again agreed, and repeated, repeated, repeated etc. etc. Total grief for the OP, throwing good money after bad. 1. The OP won't be getting any money.
2. The OP can raise an MCOL, and they can win.
3. See item 1.
IME it's cheaper to write if off, turn the property around and get a tenant in there paying rent asap than it is to try and get money out of a non paying ex tenant even with a MCOL victory on your side.
Ideally with a faint hope of getting some cash back.
There are no-win no-fee recovery services.
Apologies for the delay in replying, bit of a hectic weekend - thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.
The situation has changed just a tad... our letting agent went into the property on Friday morning ahead of the clearance and upon poking through the stuff left behind discovered a variety of documents, bank statements and driving licences in different names. Upon searching the names, they found a whole host of news articles about the tenant having been convicted and imprisoned for a string of different fraud cases over the past decade or so. 3 convictions in total, 2 with prison time (one for fraud, one for smuggling class A drugs) and 1 suspended sentence (also fraud). Stories are full of instantly recognisable photos of the tenant.
Have raised a report with local police who directed me to open a report with the national fraud agency, so have done that & supplied all the documents found. Don't want to post news links here and doxx this individual in case it has some impact on the case, but it seems this individual has quite the colourful imagination, pretending to be all sorts of different professions like some tawdry poundshop version of Catch me if you can.
As far as I can tell that whilst a genuine tenant not paying their rent is a civil matter, someone entering into a contract under a false identity makes it a criminal matter, especially as it seems they must have either multiple genuine passports & driving licences or convincing counterfeits.
All of her sentencing was done under a different name, so I presume that is the real one and she rented under a false name.
I am at a loss as to how a false identity passed the referencing, which was done by a national household name brand. We weren't involved at that point, the letting agent took care of it and at the time just told us she had "passed with flying colours". We're expats and our baby was born in the same week the referencing was done so we just let them deal with it (not that we need an excuse, it's what we pay them for).
Having now requested the referencing reports I can also now tell that she used her son as a reference for her previous landlord as he is mentioned in the news. The news reports mentioned that she forged payslips in her previous crimes so presume she did the same here. Also seeing other things in the reports that match some of the tactics and falsehoods she told us.
Hoping the police have enough to make a case out of it, she was released early from prison spell 2 on the basis that she was going straight and used a similar story to get just a suspended sentence for the 3rd conviction, so presumably this kind of recidivism is something they would want to prosecute again.
Guessing an MCOL is pointless now & probably will not see any of the lost funds. Will persevere with pressing charges if I am able to just to reduce the chances of this happening to some other person & see some justice if possible.
Clearance and deep clean this week and either re-letting or putting on the market. What a palaver!
The situation has changed just a tad... our letting agent went into the property on Friday morning ahead of the clearance and upon poking through the stuff left behind discovered a variety of documents, bank statements and driving licences in different names. Upon searching the names, they found a whole host of news articles about the tenant having been convicted and imprisoned for a string of different fraud cases over the past decade or so. 3 convictions in total, 2 with prison time (one for fraud, one for smuggling class A drugs) and 1 suspended sentence (also fraud). Stories are full of instantly recognisable photos of the tenant.
Have raised a report with local police who directed me to open a report with the national fraud agency, so have done that & supplied all the documents found. Don't want to post news links here and doxx this individual in case it has some impact on the case, but it seems this individual has quite the colourful imagination, pretending to be all sorts of different professions like some tawdry poundshop version of Catch me if you can.
As far as I can tell that whilst a genuine tenant not paying their rent is a civil matter, someone entering into a contract under a false identity makes it a criminal matter, especially as it seems they must have either multiple genuine passports & driving licences or convincing counterfeits.
All of her sentencing was done under a different name, so I presume that is the real one and she rented under a false name.
I am at a loss as to how a false identity passed the referencing, which was done by a national household name brand. We weren't involved at that point, the letting agent took care of it and at the time just told us she had "passed with flying colours". We're expats and our baby was born in the same week the referencing was done so we just let them deal with it (not that we need an excuse, it's what we pay them for).
Having now requested the referencing reports I can also now tell that she used her son as a reference for her previous landlord as he is mentioned in the news. The news reports mentioned that she forged payslips in her previous crimes so presume she did the same here. Also seeing other things in the reports that match some of the tactics and falsehoods she told us.
Hoping the police have enough to make a case out of it, she was released early from prison spell 2 on the basis that she was going straight and used a similar story to get just a suspended sentence for the 3rd conviction, so presumably this kind of recidivism is something they would want to prosecute again.
Guessing an MCOL is pointless now & probably will not see any of the lost funds. Will persevere with pressing charges if I am able to just to reduce the chances of this happening to some other person & see some justice if possible.
Clearance and deep clean this week and either re-letting or putting on the market. What a palaver!
Edited by Omnishambles on Sunday 12th May 18:03
Slowboathome said:
Have you considered having a chat with the agent about some form of redress?
Yup, that's ongoing now. As far as I'm concerned we pay the referencing fees to avoid this kind of situation and they should have some kind of insurance in place for when it doesn't work.A genuine person can stop paying their rent for whatever reason and that's a reasonable risk, but this was a bad egg from the start and their checks should have been able to determine that it wasn't a real identity.
If anyone has any knowledge around this kind of thing, I'm all ears!
Omnishambles said:
Slowboathome said:
Have you considered having a chat with the agent about some form of redress?
Yup, that's ongoing now. As far as I'm concerned we pay the referencing fees to avoid this kind of situation and they should have some kind of insurance in place for when it doesn't work.OutInTheShed said:
Seems quite odd the tenant left so many clues behind?
Yes, bizarre, why would you ever leave evidence lying around like that?Based on how the agent's reported their manner and the wild claims in some of their discussions, I suspect they're more of a slapdash fantasist without any morals than an organized & sophisticated professional, but who knows...
Slowboathome said:
Hopefully it'll be similar to HPI checks in that respect.
I'm hoping so. Will be chasing further this week.2Btoo said:
LosingGrip said:
Just a heads up...Action Fraud are useless! Don't expect anything to happen.
Very true. Utter waste of time and (taxpayers) money.Omnishambles said:
That's a shame. The police said it would be treated like a normal police report except that those working on it were specifically trained on fraud. Will exhaust the options in the hope something happens but won't hold my breath.
That is true...however due to how complex it is, they won't really do anything until its figures over £1 million. A lot of the time it's collated by them and dumped on someone in the force with the most victims to become the OIC for...
It looks like you have the option of trying to pursue someone who probably isn't the person you think they are, whose address you don't know, who may or may not have any ability to pay their debt but clearly has no qualms about leaving you high and dry as they have done to many others.
MrBogSmith said:
Cutting your losses with this one is sounding more appealing.
Blunt as it seems, this is the truth. Get on with finding a new tenant who is better than the last one and make some money to cover your losses. It's not justice, but there is very little justice in this country and the various bits of 'the justice system' will do chuff all to help you. timetex said:
Is there any comeback against either the lettings agent or the agency that did the checks? Do they provide any guarantee that their information can be relied upon?
Income, credit and reference checks are all easy to 'green light' if you know what you're doing. Clearly this girl has done this before and despite not being good at it. she clearly knows enough about the steps required to pass and get the keys. None of the tenant checking services go deep. It's a simple box-ticking service that provide you with a very loose indicator of a person's likelihood of paying the rent each month. There are no guarantees for obvious reasons. It's no different to a credit application in that respect. The applicant can pass with flying colours, but that doesn't mean they're going to make any repayments. Both are determined on a balance of probabilities, nothing more.Edited by r3g on Monday 13th May 19:05
Only advice I can give is that when my stepson rented a flat in Brighton a couple of years ago (and despite paying a years rent upfront!) the letting agent insisted on a guarantor as well (yours truly as his mother has income but no job per se so I volunteered instead) so maybe next tenant you get should provide a guarantor as part of the agreement?
The credit checking (done via Goodlaw) seemed very extensive but then as we weren’t trying to defraud the landlord maybe having to to tell facts rather than made up stuff is harder work?
Put it down to experience I guess, learn and move on
The credit checking (done via Goodlaw) seemed very extensive but then as we weren’t trying to defraud the landlord maybe having to to tell facts rather than made up stuff is harder work?
Put it down to experience I guess, learn and move on
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