Car Park discrimination - no EV's allowed
Discussion
Not really; your e-cig's battery will have been subject to little QC during manufacture, probably doesn't have an adequate battery management system protecting it and lithium polymer cells are one of the most volatile cell chemistries, one reason no automaker other than Tesla use them.
Acuity30 said:
I had a lithium powered E-cig spontaneously start smoking and getting extremely hot once after about 2 years of use.
To put it into perspective, none of my petrol powered tools i.e lawnmower/chainsaw/strimmer have ever gone up in flames. Food for thought...
On the other hand I've had a strimmer catch fire and never had an electrical fireTo put it into perspective, none of my petrol powered tools i.e lawnmower/chainsaw/strimmer have ever gone up in flames. Food for thought...
HocusPocus said:
I once had a wire melt whilst charging my phone on the train. Imagine the fire damage if that had been charging in a RR PHEV in a multi storey car park 
I'm guessing USB chargers aren't subjected to quite the same level of quality control and safety standards though. Acuity30 said:
RizzoTheRat said:
I'm guessing USB chargers aren't subjected to quite the same level of quality control and safety standards though.
You'd be surprised, based on some of the panel gaps on your average Tesla I'd say the QC is probably lower on an EV in some cases
Acuity30 said:
I had a lithium powered E-cig spontaneously start smoking and getting extremely hot once after about 2 years of use.
To put it into perspective, none of my petrol powered tools i.e lawnmower/chainsaw/strimmer have ever gone up in flames. Food for thought...
An anecdote isn’t data. I've had 2 ICE engine fires but I wouldn't draw any conclusions from that. To put it into perspective, none of my petrol powered tools i.e lawnmower/chainsaw/strimmer have ever gone up in flames. Food for thought...
Acuity30 said:
RizzoTheRat said:
I'm guessing USB chargers aren't subjected to quite the same level of quality control and safety standards though.
You'd be surprised, based on some of the panel gaps on your average Tesla I'd say the QC is probably lower on an EV in some casesGT9 said:
Temporary problem innit.
Everyone knows hydrogen is the future and fuel cell cars will be much safer when catching fire in an enclosed car park environment.
What with each one being a hybrid carrying the equivalent of 100 kg of TNT and all.
Stored at 10,000 psi.
Without any need for atomisation to ignite and a flame speed 10 times higher than natural gas.
Resulting in a pressure wave perfectly designed to destroy structures and human tissue.
Much safer.
Oh.
Oh you mean like LPG, don't recall there being an issue with that exploding or starting fires.Everyone knows hydrogen is the future and fuel cell cars will be much safer when catching fire in an enclosed car park environment.
What with each one being a hybrid carrying the equivalent of 100 kg of TNT and all.
Stored at 10,000 psi.
Without any need for atomisation to ignite and a flame speed 10 times higher than natural gas.
Resulting in a pressure wave perfectly designed to destroy structures and human tissue.
Much safer.
Oh.
Edited by GT9 on Tuesday 7th May 21:49
If I recall Blairs Labour forced people into Diesel instead with crazy RFL and other tax incentives, same cars they now want to ban from cities.
Responder.First said:
Oh you mean like LPG, don't recall there being an issue with that exploding or starting fires.
If I recall Blairs Labour forced people into Diesel instead with crazy RFL and other tax incentives, same cars they now want to ban from cities.
Hydrogen is hydrocarbon with the carbon removed (obvs).If I recall Blairs Labour forced people into Diesel instead with crazy RFL and other tax incentives, same cars they now want to ban from cities.
The presence of carbon does three crucial things:
It slows the flame speed.
It massively increases the volumetric energy density.
It significantly increases the molecule size.
If you don't get what these things imply for engineering and safety, that's fine, but do not make the mistake of thinking hydrogen is 'just like' a hydrocarbon.
Hydrogen is stored at 10,000 psi in a fuel cell car, that's 700 bar.
Twice the pressure that collapsed that sub on its way to the Titanic.
This is necessary to achieve a volumetric energy density that, despite the pressure, is still effectively 10 times lower than petrol.
Now and go and look at what pressure LPG is stored at.
700 bar is near the physical limit of how far the gas can be compressed before it won't compress any more.
Regardless of how much pressurise you use, it won't liquify unless cooled to -253 C.
When you combine 700 bar pressure with the smallest known molecule, a flammability range wider than any hydrocarbon and a tenfold increase in flame speed, what you have is one of the most effective destruction devices known.
In an explosion, if the heat doesn't get you, the pressure wave will take care of that, crushing lungs and any other cavities in your body you hold dear.
For any given amount of energy stored it's far more destructive than hydrocarbon explosions due to the rate of energy release.
Combine that with its ability to find leakage paths and ignition sources that is second to none and well, put it this way, if you take liberties or cut corners, it's usually game over.
GT9 said:
Responder.First said:
Oh you mean like LPG, don't recall there being an issue with that exploding or starting fires.
If I recall Blairs Labour forced people into Diesel instead with crazy RFL and other tax incentives, same cars they now want to ban from cities.
Hydrogen is hydrocarbon with the carbon removed (obvs).If I recall Blairs Labour forced people into Diesel instead with crazy RFL and other tax incentives, same cars they now want to ban from cities.
The presence of carbon does three crucial things:
It slows the flame speed.
It massively increases the volumetric energy density.
It significantly increases the molecule size.
If you don't get what these things imply for engineering and safety, that's fine, but do not make the mistake of thinking hydrogen is 'just like' a hydrocarbon.
Hydrogen is stored at 10,000 psi in a fuel cell car, that's 700 bar.
Twice the pressure that collapsed that sub on its way to the Titanic.
This is necessary to achieve a volumetric energy density that, despite the pressure, is still effectively 10 times lower than petrol.
Now and go and look at what pressure LPG is stored at.
700 bar is near the physical limit of how far the gas can be compressed before it won't compress any more.
Regardless of how much pressurise you use, it won't liquify unless cooled to -253 C.
When you combine 700 bar pressure with the smallest known molecule, a flammability range wider than any hydrocarbon and a tenfold increase in flame speed, what you have is one of the most effective destruction devices known.
In an explosion, if the heat doesn't get you, the pressure wave will take care of that, crushing lungs and any other cavities in your body you hold dear.
For any given amount of energy stored it's far more destructive than hydrocarbon explosions due to the rate of energy release.
Combine that with its ability to find leakage paths and ignition sources that is second to none and well, put it this way, if you take liberties or cut corners, it's usually game over.
Maybe we are doing it wrong.
Responder.First said:
Oh you mean like LPG, don't recall there being an issue with that exploding or starting fires.
If I recall Blairs Labour forced people into Diesel instead with crazy RFL and other tax incentives, same cars they now want to ban from cities.
Yes, I remember when Gordon Brown showed up at my house and twisted my nipples until I handed over the keys to my petrol car. "Drive this here manky smokey diesel y'bas!" were his parting words as he threw the keys to a 320d at me.If I recall Blairs Labour forced people into Diesel instead with crazy RFL and other tax incentives, same cars they now want to ban from cities.
All the people who used to bang on about how their TDi was an absolute rocketship (within a 200rpm power band) that did 90MPG and cost £0 in VED, they were also forced. They should get com pen say shun for the lower fuel and VED costs they ensured due to dieselgate too.
Acuity30 said:
RizzoTheRat said:
I'm guessing USB chargers aren't subjected to quite the same level of quality control and safety standards though.
You'd be surprised, based on some of the panel gaps on your average Tesla I'd say the QC is probably lower on an EV in some casesSo if the Tesla design says "the panel gap must be between 5 mm and 50mm", it will pass QC with a 49mm gap.
FMOB said:
Don't forget all the shrapnel as the car disintegrates in the explosion. The terrorists are going to love these things, instant car bomb on wheels, just add detonator.
Detonator being a 2016 diesel (non-hybrid!) Land Rover parked amongst a dozen or so fuel cell cars in an underground car park? Probably capable of demolishing an entire building in an instant, but fortunately, a fairly implausible scenario in the UK given fuel cell car sales and hydrogen availability for cars are both on life support.
Oh, and the ban on hydrogen in tunnels which I’m pretty sure will be extended to any public enclosed space.
GT9 said:
FMOB said:
Don't forget all the shrapnel as the car disintegrates in the explosion. The terrorists are going to love these things, instant car bomb on wheels, just add detonator.
Detonator being a 2016 diesel (non-hybrid!) Land Rover parked amongst a dozen or so fuel cell cars in an underground car park? Probably capable of demolishing an entire building in an instant, but fortunately, a fairly implausible scenario in the UK given fuel cell car sales and hydrogen availability for cars are both on life support.
Oh, and the ban on hydrogen in tunnels which I’m pretty sure will be extended to any public enclosed space.
Yes hydrogen is the lightest gas so, assuming sufficient ventilation at the top it will quickly find its way out but if you suddenly have a lot of it in a tunnel it could overwhelm the system.
Hydrogen really isn't that explosive. Burns very well given sufficient oxygen but look at the Hindenburg... It burned, it didn't explode. 700bar is a terrifying pressure but it doesn't magically make oxygen part of the problem.
donkmeister said:
Yes, I remember when Gordon Brown showed up at my house and twisted my nipples until I handed over the keys to my petrol car. "Drive this here manky smokey diesel y'bas!" were his parting words as he threw the keys to a 320d at me.
All the people who used to bang on about how their TDi was an absolute rocketship (within a 200rpm power band) that did 90MPG and cost £0 in VED, they were also forced. They should get com pen say shun for the lower fuel and VED costs they ensured due to dieselgate too.
I think much like EVs people are being bullied into them on Environmental grounds! Road tax and environmental concerns once again.All the people who used to bang on about how their TDi was an absolute rocketship (within a 200rpm power band) that did 90MPG and cost £0 in VED, they were also forced. They should get com pen say shun for the lower fuel and VED costs they ensured due to dieselgate too.
I used to pay considerably more road tax as I refuse to buy a diesel had some for work purposes only, people to bang on about tiny powerband torque benefits use and the green credentials, how they were saving the planet unlike EVs they weren't given disable style premium parking. I know people who bought diesels for local 3 mile trips due to roadtax/ved free or £30 per year.
Road tax on Sept 2006 was crippling on some petrol's remember, as some cars jumped from £190 ish to like £415, just because they were petrols.
All the time the manufacturers like VW conspired to defraud us and we have stored up health problems for future generations due to high toxic air in cities.
I do find it irksome when you question how green and sustainable EVs some people call you a conspiracy nut, when we had all this in the 90s-00s, I called it then how can that black stuff out the exhaust be better!
donkmeister said:
Hydrogen really isn't that explosive. Burns very well given sufficient oxygen but look at the Hindenburg... It burned, it didn't explode. 700bar is a terrifying pressure but it doesn't magically make oxygen part of the problem.
We should all drive hydrogen and make redundant the sprinkler system in car parks. If the cars all burn with sufficient oxygen, the fire should generate water to put itself out. 
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