What happened to all the older workers?
Discussion
StevieBee said:
I've yet to determine if this is a good thing (for society) or not. One the one hand you're loosing experience. But on the other, it forces innovative thinking unencumbered from a 'we don't do things like that' mentality that can prevail amongst the older generation.
I think ultimately it just creates an even bigger wealth divide between the have and have nots. If your parents didn't own property then you are likely to struggle in life unless you manage to earn a significant amount of money.Take my neighbours for instance, every time one of their children wanted to buy a house they sold a BTL and gave them the money. All of them live in big houses in leafy London boroughs now. My daughter has friends who's parents don't own property, they are barely 16 and I can already tell it is game over for them. It is highly likely they will come out of uni with £50K of debt and be forced to rent for their entire life as they cannot get a deposit or mortgage.
I think my generation (especially in the SE) were one of the last that were easily able to afford to buy a house in their 20s and move up the property ladder.
Maybe more and more people in their 20s will just check out, I know several children of people I know just basically sit in their bedroom playing XBOX all day and have zero desire to ever get a job.
And that is before we get onto the amount of tax you have to pay, I just think working is more stick than carrot these days.
StevieBee said:
It's a perfect storm of a larger number of older-mid aged people being able to capitalise on what were incredibly generous pensions back in the late 80s and 90s and benefiting from inheritance to much higher levels than have been seen previously. The end terrance ex-council house they grew up in is now worth £0.5m which when added to a decent final salary pensions and a paid-off mortgage means they can remove themselves from the workplace and lead a prosperous life whilst doing diddly squat.
I've yet to determine if this is a good thing (for society) or not. One the one hand you're loosing experience. But on the other, it forces innovative thinking unencumbered from a 'we don't do things like that' mentality that can prevail amongst the older generation.
It also frees up the senior jobs for people of my age. I've yet to determine if this is a good thing (for society) or not. One the one hand you're loosing experience. But on the other, it forces innovative thinking unencumbered from a 'we don't do things like that' mentality that can prevail amongst the older generation.
I'm 42 and in the sector I work in, I have also noticed a real disappearance of the 50-67 age people who would usually be occupying the Head Of, Director, Exec Director, and CEO roles. Many have retired, quit, moved out of the industry, and a few have moved into part time consultancy/contracting.
Due to absence, I've just been appointed Acting Director recently, of a department of 130 people, and without putting myself down too much, I suspect that decision was partly to do with the lack of other suitable more experienced people in the business, in the age range I mention above.
Had the jobs market been less volatile than it is, recruitment is still really difficult, and if had the company still had plenty of 45-66 year olds with better experience, it wouldn't have been as easy for me.
In short, I'm not complaining.
StevieBee said:
It's a perfect storm of a larger number of older-mid aged people being able to capitalise on what were incredibly generous pensions back in the late 80s and 90s and benefiting from inheritance to much higher levels than have been seen previously. The end terrance ex-council house they grew up in is now worth £0.5m which when added to a decent final salary pensions and a paid-off mortgage means they can remove themselves from the workplace and lead a prosperous life whilst doing diddly squat.
I agree, and it's likely that subsequent cohorts won't have the same opportunity to retire as early.Joey Deacon said:
Maybe more and more people in their 20s will just check out, I know several children of people I know just basically sit in their bedroom playing XBOX all day and have zero desire to ever get a job.
If life involves living a bleak hand-to-mouth existence in rented property until retirement then playing Xbox at home until your parents croak it might seem preferable.I worked in IT/Finance, when I was 54 I warned work that it would be my last year, I’ve been retired a year, my wife joined me at 53.
No plans to rejoin the working population and hope to avoid drawing our personal pensions for a year or two.
With all the s
t that’s been going on in the world, we’re enjoying ourselves and have only missed the guys we worked with, not the work.
We met up with my old work mates a month ago, plenty of them my age are thinking the same or have already retired. If you can, get out of the rat race and start enjoying life.
No plans to rejoin the working population and hope to avoid drawing our personal pensions for a year or two.
With all the s
t that’s been going on in the world, we’re enjoying ourselves and have only missed the guys we worked with, not the work. We met up with my old work mates a month ago, plenty of them my age are thinking the same or have already retired. If you can, get out of the rat race and start enjoying life.
Perhaps many retired early or moved on having got fed up with woke nonsense, a culture of ping pong tables in the office and an imbalance of real workload? All whilst being heavily taxed to fund daft benefits for those who chose not to work.
When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
bennno said:
Perhaps many retired early or moved on having got fed up with woke nonsense, a culture of ping pong tables in the office and an imbalance of real workload? All whilst being heavily taxed to fund daft benefits for those who chose not to work.
When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
This is a very good post.When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
I "retired" at 55 and rejoined the workforce as a part-time postie. You'd be amazed at how many ex "professionals" there were in our little sorting office, looking for something simple, stressless, and healthy to do. All out of the main workforce, but not yet showing up in the graphs and figures at the top of this page.
I've since moved on to another "great little retirement job" and approximately 75% of my colleagues are semi-retirees too.
I've since moved on to another "great little retirement job" and approximately 75% of my colleagues are semi-retirees too.
It's the opposite where I work (IT) I've worked with mostly the same people for as long as I've been there (Nearly 20 years in numerous roles/levels hence I've not got bored and left). There are a large number of people in the mid 40s to mid 50s sort of bracket - I'm nearly in the middle of that bracket.
If I last another 5 years without being re-organised out, I'd be happy to find a job with less stress and less responsibility as I'll have paid the mortgage off. Keep me busy for a bit and maybe mean I don't need to dip into my pension too soon. If I could get redundancy once the mortgage is clear, I'd be over the moon given the enhanced terms having been with a company for a long while has given me.
The wife is comfortable where she is, so I'm not sure she'd change but I certainly don't plan for the 2 of us to work until state pension age (if such a thing exists by the time we get near an age to claim it!)
If I last another 5 years without being re-organised out, I'd be happy to find a job with less stress and less responsibility as I'll have paid the mortgage off. Keep me busy for a bit and maybe mean I don't need to dip into my pension too soon. If I could get redundancy once the mortgage is clear, I'd be over the moon given the enhanced terms having been with a company for a long while has given me.
The wife is comfortable where she is, so I'm not sure she'd change but I certainly don't plan for the 2 of us to work until state pension age (if such a thing exists by the time we get near an age to claim it!)
Fast and Spurious said:
bennno said:
Perhaps many retired early or moved on having got fed up with woke nonsense, a culture of ping pong tables in the office and an imbalance of real workload? All whilst being heavily taxed to fund daft benefits for those who chose not to work.
When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
This is a very good post.When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
bennno said:
Perhaps many retired early or moved on having got fed up with woke nonsense, a culture of ping pong tables in the office and an imbalance of real workload? All whilst being heavily taxed to fund daft benefits for those who chose not to work.
When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
I agree with your bit about being heavily taxed to fund stuff which could be considered foolish. We all get aggrieved by watching our taxes being squandered.When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
But the rest of your post just seems like lashing out at an imaginary bogeyman for no apparent reason.
I work in one of the most woke industries out there. We don't have ping pong tables, but our office is certainly very 'modern and progressive'. We have genderless toilet areas, lots of breakout areas, comfy sofas, bowls full of free fruit and snacks, free mocha-choca-latta-espresso-green-tea-thing coffee machines everywhere, a 'mindfulness room', funky £1200 Herman-Miller chairs at all the desks, neon signs on the walls saying random stuff like 'Be awesome' and so on. You get the idea. Our office looks like something out of a Silicone Valley startup.
On top of that, our culture is very much one of being progressive, inclusive, and woke if you want to call it that. I'll be honest, I absolutely love it, and I cannot see why anyone wouldn't.
The upshot of such a work environment is that you rarely have to work with anyone unpleasant because they either aren't hired, or they don't last long. When I say unpleasant, I mean genuinely unpleasant. People are still free to make jokes and have a laugh with/at each other, go out for a pint after work, and all the rest of it. Not just that, but the terms and conditions for employees in such workplaces are usually more generous and flexible.
If there is an imbalance of workload, or any other such issues, then that is a totally separate issue to being woke or progressive. One is unrelated to the other. You can get terrible workloads, poor management, bad promotion decisions, and so on, in any business, of any culture. If people are being promoted for a box-ticking exercise, then again, that is an individual company issue, and just very poor decision making, it isn't a woke issue. I don't see workload or box-ticking problems where I work, for example.
What is it that you do, for that to be your office environment Lord M?
I work in Engineering, where we have one ceiling light still working, and for that we are grateful
I'm the youngest here at 28. The next closest are in their 40's, and there are people in their 70's still chipping away here.
A very old fashioned business by all accounts. There's a lot of experience here for me to learn from, so I plan to make use of that for a while before looking for something more enjoyable.
I work in Engineering, where we have one ceiling light still working, and for that we are grateful
I'm the youngest here at 28. The next closest are in their 40's, and there are people in their 70's still chipping away here.
A very old fashioned business by all accounts. There's a lot of experience here for me to learn from, so I plan to make use of that for a while before looking for something more enjoyable.
Sycamore said:
What is it that you do, for that to be your office environment Lord M?
I work in Engineering, where we have one ceiling light still working, and for that we are grateful
I'm the youngest here at 28. The next closest are in their 40's, and there are people in their 70's still chipping away here.
A very old fashioned business by all accounts. There's a lot of experience here for me to learn from, so I plan to make use of that for a while before looking for something more enjoyable.
I work in the social housing sector, for a medium sized organisation. I have worked both as a 'day rate' consultant in the sector, and as a regular employee.I work in Engineering, where we have one ceiling light still working, and for that we are grateful
I'm the youngest here at 28. The next closest are in their 40's, and there are people in their 70's still chipping away here.
A very old fashioned business by all accounts. There's a lot of experience here for me to learn from, so I plan to make use of that for a while before looking for something more enjoyable.
Not all housing providers will have fancy offices of course, I've been in some places where they were still in creaky old 1960's Council offices, but the vast majority will have very progressive work environments with flexible working, excellent benefits, and so on.
I gave up work at 55 just before covid hit. I did it mainly because I worked out that at my spending levels at the time I would run out of cash in 273 years, with 4% growth in investments, and something like 45 years with no growth. This was not even taking state pension into account, when that is available. I was also getting a bit tired of endless meetings, and constant fire fire fighting due to people not doing stuff correctly or on time. Not much to do with woke stuff whatever that really is.
Lord Marylebone said:
bennno said:
Perhaps many retired early or moved on having got fed up with woke nonsense, a culture of ping pong tables in the office and an imbalance of real workload? All whilst being heavily taxed to fund daft benefits for those who chose not to work.
When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
I agree with your bit about being heavily taxed to fund stuff which could be considered foolish. We all get aggrieved by watching our taxes being squandered.When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
But the rest of your post just seems like lashing out at an imaginary bogeyman for no apparent reason.
I work in one of the most woke industries out there. We don't have ping pong tables, but our office is certainly very 'modern and progressive'. We have genderless toilet areas, lots of breakout areas, comfy sofas, bowls full of free fruit and snacks, free mocha-choca-latta-espresso-green-tea-thing coffee machines everywhere, a 'mindfulness room', funky £1200 Herman-Miller chairs at all the desks, neon signs on the walls saying random stuff like 'Be awesome' and so on. You get the idea. Our office looks like something out of a Silicone Valley startup.
On top of that, our culture is very much one of being progressive, inclusive, and woke if you want to call it that. I'll be honest, I absolutely love it, and I cannot see why anyone wouldn't.
The upshot of such a work environment is that you rarely have to work with anyone unpleasant because they either aren't hired, or they don't last long. When I say unpleasant, I mean genuinely unpleasant. People are still free to make jokes and have a laugh with/at each other, go out for a pint after work, and all the rest of it. Not just that, but the terms and conditions for employees in such workplaces are usually more generous and flexible.
If there is an imbalance of workload, or any other such issues, then that is a totally separate issue to being woke or progressive. One is unrelated to the other. You can get terrible workloads, poor management, bad promotion decisions, and so on, in any business, of any culture. If people are being promoted for a box-ticking exercise, then again, that is an individual company issue, and just very poor decision making, it isn't a woke issue. I don't see workload or box-ticking problems where I work, for example.
Theres been a fundamental shift in employment from celebrating loyalty, tenure and experience, to focusing over intensively on diversity and balance.
Really who cares about celebrating sexual preferences in the workplace, should be as irrelevant in a work context as the colour of somebodies skin, or a disability - clearly all should be protected and not discriminated against, but having a celebration of LGBTQ+ monthly with drinks and music is just daft in a work context.
Posh chairs, cushions and ping pong tables and peak afternoon slots filled with cultural and environmental learning sessions all attract the grads for a couple of years before they move on, but all cost and impact productivity and behind the scenes theres always a requirement to deliver results, which can lead to an unequal distribution of workloads and pressures.....
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