What happened to all the older workers?
Discussion
Ronstein said:
We're all working as consutants :-)
The organisation I work with (2 days a week) is principally made up of consultants, most of whom are over 60 aqnd at least one (me) is at least 70.
Do you mind me asking which organisation? You can PM me if don't want to post in the forum. I have done some consulting (IT transformation, everything from OKRs to Cloud migration) since I retired, but the companies really want a 1 to 2 year full-time commitmentThe organisation I work with (2 days a week) is principally made up of consultants, most of whom are over 60 aqnd at least one (me) is at least 70.
This is a timely thread as I've really felt the same.
I'm a contractor working in Government, and since Covid I've basically watched lots of "lifers" (30-40 years service) all basically go 'yeah, thats me done' following dramatic ways of working changes - incidentally, it was mainly people *not* enjoying work from home.
Many of these weren't 60 - plenty seem to have joined schemes at 16. I guess however they are also the last of the 'final salary' gang. Fair play to them is what I say.
Its been genuinely quite sobering to watch. Lots of incredibly capable passionate people leaving with lots of intrinsic knowledge and understanding. Not to say the others aren't the same, but it has felt very weird.
I predominately have worked with people 20+ years my senior for most of my working career... now I look round and I feel like one of the oldies. I'm only late 30s.
My goal is to be done by 60. 55 if I can get the mortgage cleared.
Our lives have changed a lot in the last couple of years and I think the world going on pause when COVID happened gave lots of people the chance to reflect. As others have said, I think people realised in covid they could be quite frugal pottering around the garden, going on long walks, and reading books on new found interests.... and actually, that was quite brilliant.
As a side comment I do continue to think that the country is going to have a hell of a shock when people who've paid statutory minimums into private pensions are totally confused why their pension pot of £60k at 68 isn't going to give them any meaningful amount of income.
I'm a contractor working in Government, and since Covid I've basically watched lots of "lifers" (30-40 years service) all basically go 'yeah, thats me done' following dramatic ways of working changes - incidentally, it was mainly people *not* enjoying work from home.
Many of these weren't 60 - plenty seem to have joined schemes at 16. I guess however they are also the last of the 'final salary' gang. Fair play to them is what I say.
Its been genuinely quite sobering to watch. Lots of incredibly capable passionate people leaving with lots of intrinsic knowledge and understanding. Not to say the others aren't the same, but it has felt very weird.
I predominately have worked with people 20+ years my senior for most of my working career... now I look round and I feel like one of the oldies. I'm only late 30s.
My goal is to be done by 60. 55 if I can get the mortgage cleared.
Our lives have changed a lot in the last couple of years and I think the world going on pause when COVID happened gave lots of people the chance to reflect. As others have said, I think people realised in covid they could be quite frugal pottering around the garden, going on long walks, and reading books on new found interests.... and actually, that was quite brilliant.
As a side comment I do continue to think that the country is going to have a hell of a shock when people who've paid statutory minimums into private pensions are totally confused why their pension pot of £60k at 68 isn't going to give them any meaningful amount of income.
bennno said:
I was really reflecting on personal thoughts and many of those I know who've elected to retire or swap jobs to 'take it easy' a bit earlier.
Theres been a fundamental shift in employment from celebrating loyalty, tenure and experience, to focusing over intensively on diversity and balance.
Really who cares about celebrating sexual preferences in the workplace, should be as irrelevant in a work context as the colour of somebodies skin, or a disability - clearly all should be protected and not discriminated against, but having a celebration of LGBTQ+ monthly with drinks and music is just daft in a work context.
Posh chairs, cushions and ping pong tables and peak afternoon slots filled with cultural and environmental learning sessions all attract the grads for a couple of years before they move on, but all cost and impact productivity and behind the scenes theres always a requirement to deliver results, which can lead to an unequal distribution of workloads and pressures.....
Not going to argue with your reflections on workplaces. Peoples experiences are what they are.Theres been a fundamental shift in employment from celebrating loyalty, tenure and experience, to focusing over intensively on diversity and balance.
Really who cares about celebrating sexual preferences in the workplace, should be as irrelevant in a work context as the colour of somebodies skin, or a disability - clearly all should be protected and not discriminated against, but having a celebration of LGBTQ+ monthly with drinks and music is just daft in a work context.
Posh chairs, cushions and ping pong tables and peak afternoon slots filled with cultural and environmental learning sessions all attract the grads for a couple of years before they move on, but all cost and impact productivity and behind the scenes theres always a requirement to deliver results, which can lead to an unequal distribution of workloads and pressures.....
I think we are perhaps discussing differing things. I haven't experienced much of the regular celebration type and 'woke promotion' stuff that you mention. It isn't all flag waving and wearing badges. It's the occasional email and post on WorkPlace that you may ignore if you wish. No one is forced to do anything.
It is the 'progressive' culture, policies, behaviours, attitudes, and so on that make the much bigger difference, and generally make somewhere a more pleasant place to work.
For years I was a contract draughtsman in oil and gas. Firstly on a drawing board, then on a CAD machine. Generally speaking, when it was good, it was very, very, good and when it was bad, it was okay. There were a few times when work was scarce but, by and large, it was okay. Then, about ten years ago, the industry collectively said, "No more old boys." And that was it, we were out.
On reflection, those of us content to cruise along, made what we did look easy. Which was stupid.
A lot of us, with forty years experience in a skill no one wanted and a clean driving licence, went driving; delivering cars and so on. One bloke became a butcher. He was an exception. Many retired.
Those of us still able bodied, text one another and joke about one last big project to swell the coffers.
Dear God, please let there be one more oil and gas project. We promise not to piss it all away next time.
On reflection, those of us content to cruise along, made what we did look easy. Which was stupid.
A lot of us, with forty years experience in a skill no one wanted and a clean driving licence, went driving; delivering cars and so on. One bloke became a butcher. He was an exception. Many retired.
Those of us still able bodied, text one another and joke about one last big project to swell the coffers.
Dear God, please let there be one more oil and gas project. We promise not to piss it all away next time.
ARHarh said:
I gave up work at 55 just before covid hit. I did it mainly because I worked out that at my spending levels at the time I would run out of cash in 273 years, with 4% growth in investments, and something like 45 years with no growth. This was not even taking state pension into account, when that is available. I was also getting a bit tired of endless meetings, and constant fire fire fighting due to people not doing stuff correctly or on time. Not much to do with woke stuff whatever that really is.
Does the reality of your pre Covid calculations bear any resemblance to the actual picture now. I did broadly the same as you .cliffords said:
ARHarh said:
I gave up work at 55 just before covid hit. I did it mainly because I worked out that at my spending levels at the time I would run out of cash in 273 years, with 4% growth in investments, and something like 45 years with no growth. This was not even taking state pension into account, when that is available. I was also getting a bit tired of endless meetings, and constant fire fire fighting due to people not doing stuff correctly or on time. Not much to do with woke stuff whatever that really is.
Does the reality of your pre Covid calculations bear any resemblance to the actual picture now. I did broadly the same as you .TwigtheWonderkid said:
Fast and Spurious said:
bennno said:
Perhaps many retired early or moved on having got fed up with woke nonsense, a culture of ping pong tables in the office and an imbalance of real workload? All whilst being heavily taxed to fund daft benefits for those who chose not to work.
When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
This is a very good post.When you’ve done ok with saving in to your pension / paid off a large chunk of the house / for the kids through school then there’s little reason to chase the coin if it involves working for an inexperienced manager and to be volunteering for recurrent litter pick duties / photo opportunities at food banks etc whilst the company persue a selective approach to favouring the promotion of inexperienced females to address perceived imbalances etc.
Also in the last 36 months, most of the senior managers and execs have been women so I'm sure even a drunk Stevie Wonder can see that there's a shift towards hiring more females in senior positions..
Thankfully I had all my financial ducks in a row and at 45, decided to tell my experienced younger manager to do one as I'm off to take semi retirement. Currently putting my feet up on some sandy beaches over in SE Asia / Hong Kong on a 6 month break.
cliffords said:
I worked up until a year ago for a Bank in Canary wharf. Before Covid when it was full there would be 200 people on a floor . I used to walk about and try and spot someone who looked older then me . At 55 at the time I would always be the oldest .
if you walked around the floor now post-Covid people would be wondering who's grampa has got lost. Interesting that we have people aged just 49 and 55 stating that they are the oldest in the department/floor/company, which tallies with my original post.GT3Manthey said:
Quite a few bolted after covid hit having worked out they hated being in an office and enjoyed their new found freedom.
Yep, it was an eye-opener especially the working from home for the best part of a year on the final contract I was on. At 55 I weighed everything up and thought I really don't need or want to do this rubbish anymore.
Haven't looked at a spreadsheet or anything job type job related since January 2021.
Do a couple of days stuff in some sort of medieval or Victorian outfit in a month just to keep me entertained.
I must be a weird one, I'm 55 work for a big corporate law firm where I look after global construction. Must admit I really enjoy my work, don't enjoy a lot of the woke hysteria and other bull that comes with it sometimes but I realise it's all part of the corporate world that I've always inhabited. I've not got any plans to retire unless they want to get out the golden cheque book. My immediate boss retired at the end of covid when he realised that he would have to come back to work, he had a frugal lifestyle anyway, had come into an inheritance and decided there was stuff he would rather do and good luck to him.
It's good for me to bumble along and once the mortgage is paid next year I can decide what I want to do.
It's good for me to bumble along and once the mortgage is paid next year I can decide what I want to do.
bennno said:
Theres been a fundamental shift in employment from celebrating loyalty, tenure and experience, to focusing over intensively on diversity and balance.
Really who cares about celebrating sexual preferences in the workplace, should be as irrelevant in a work context as the colour of somebodies skin, or a disability - clearly all should be protected and not discriminated against, but having a celebration of LGBTQ+ monthly with drinks and music is just daft in a work context.
Posh chairs, cushions and ping pong tables and peak afternoon slots filled with cultural and environmental learning sessions all attract the grads for a couple of years before they move on, but all cost and impact productivity and behind the scenes theres always a requirement to deliver results, which can lead to an unequal distribution of workloads and pressures.....
I worked for a smallish company that got bought a few years ago by a massive American company and this is exactly what it is like. It seems that every other day there is some invitation for Autism Acceptance, Celebrate Diversity, LGBTQ+, Pride Month, are nursery rhymes racist, Being Active in Tough Situations etc. etc online meetings. I have literally no idea how anybody would have time to join any of these meetings.Really who cares about celebrating sexual preferences in the workplace, should be as irrelevant in a work context as the colour of somebodies skin, or a disability - clearly all should be protected and not discriminated against, but having a celebration of LGBTQ+ monthly with drinks and music is just daft in a work context.
Posh chairs, cushions and ping pong tables and peak afternoon slots filled with cultural and environmental learning sessions all attract the grads for a couple of years before they move on, but all cost and impact productivity and behind the scenes theres always a requirement to deliver results, which can lead to an unequal distribution of workloads and pressures.....
That is before we get onto the online bake offs, Menopause chats and millions of other pointless things they think up.
They seem to think that having beer taps in the office is going to make me want to go in on a Thursday.
Me, I ignore it all, keep my head down, do my work and count down the days until I can say "I am done with all this" and retire.
I used to love my job, customer facing role. I worked all through covid as I was considered a "key worker". Something happened during the lock downs that turned some of the general public into total ass holes. Whether it was those on furlough getting cabin fever, but it was challenging.
After the first lockdown we decided to sell up, move away and give up work a few years early.
No regrets.
After the first lockdown we decided to sell up, move away and give up work a few years early.
No regrets.
Joey Deacon said:
I worked for a smallish company that got bought a few years ago by a massive American company and this is exactly what it is like. It seems that every other day there is some invitation for Autism Acceptance, Celebrate Diversity, LGBTQ+, Pride Month, are nursery rhymes racist, Being Active in Tough Situations etc. etc online meetings. I have literally no idea how anybody would have time to join any of these meetings.
<snip>.
Good lord! <snip>.
Spoke to somebody I used to work with in Cambridge (10 years younger than me) recently and she said she couldn't wait to get away from all the 'corporate/woke bulls
t' (her words) and retire. Joey Deacon said:
Good question, I am 49, work in IT and I am the oldest person in my office. I am really hoping I can afford to retire at 60, but I actually wonder if I will even have a job by then.
I have no idea where they have all gone, I got talking to a guy on a plane trip last year who used to work in IT and he decided to retire at 45. I worked with an older VB6 contractor back in around 2008 who would have been mid 50s at the time. He said this was his last contract and that he was going to retire now as he didn't want to learn anything new.
I can only assume one of the following 3 scenarios happen
1)They hate their jobs, do the maths and realise that they can retire early
2)They get made redundant, can't find another job and decide to retire
3)They get made redundant, can't find another job and end up doing something completely unrelated, possibly with the least amount of responsibility possible.
It's all very well the government telling us all we have to work until a minimum of 67, but what do you do if nobody will employ you?
I think the governments big Universal Basic Income experiment during Covid is the reason a lot of people in their 50s have decided to jack it all in. Whilst they were getting paid Furlough they realised there was more to live than working and they could survive on less money than they expected.
Similar to me. 49 in a couple of weeks and in IT. I'm the oldest in my team. It's a math's thing for me. I'd retire tomorrow if I could but have to "hang on" until 60 as long as my planning stays on track. I recently learned a new technology but have no desire to progress anymore or learn new things. AI has sparked a little interest in me but not enough to do anything with it. I have no idea where they have all gone, I got talking to a guy on a plane trip last year who used to work in IT and he decided to retire at 45. I worked with an older VB6 contractor back in around 2008 who would have been mid 50s at the time. He said this was his last contract and that he was going to retire now as he didn't want to learn anything new.
I can only assume one of the following 3 scenarios happen
1)They hate their jobs, do the maths and realise that they can retire early
2)They get made redundant, can't find another job and decide to retire
3)They get made redundant, can't find another job and end up doing something completely unrelated, possibly with the least amount of responsibility possible.
It's all very well the government telling us all we have to work until a minimum of 67, but what do you do if nobody will employ you?
I think the governments big Universal Basic Income experiment during Covid is the reason a lot of people in their 50s have decided to jack it all in. Whilst they were getting paid Furlough they realised there was more to live than working and they could survive on less money than they expected.
We're in that strange area where our companies could employ people half our age for half our salary who are probably more up to date and willing to work harder and longer hours to impress, but it would cost them a lot to get rid of us. We shy away into the background plodding along keeping our heads down, waiting until we can get out.
I know of a lot of people in IT who retired early on final salary pensions or had big pay days with contracting, etc. A few guys downsized houses and took less stressful, less time-consuming jobs. Less income but more time/quality of life. It does seem that there's a lot less wise old foxes about, at least in IT.
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