Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 12
Discussion
A.J.M said:
How about she speaks properly given her position, salary and the importance of what’s being discussed?
Time and place for stuff eh?
You believe we should 'speak proper'? My only concession to how I speak in school as opposed to in 'public' is I try, and sometimes fail, not to swear....Time and place for stuff eh?
....and you thought the SNP was responsible for the eroding standards of education? My pupils are from Dundee. They speak Dundonian, in accent and dialect. Should I ask the ones from Nigeria, Sri Lanka etc to 'speak proper'?
Edit, my tongue is ever so slightly in my cheek here. But I don't get the 'talk proper' thing. Look how educated and eloquent many of our politicians sound....and how vile, corrupt and entirely lacking in common sense, class or manners they are
Edited by biggbn on Friday 10th May 13:07
biggbn said:
Edit, my tongue is ever so slightly in my cheek here. But I don't get the 'talk proper' thing. Look how educated and eloquent many of our politicians sound....and how vile, corrupt and entirely lacking in common sense, class or manners they are
Like I said a few posts ago, I was brought up and live in darkest Aberdeenshire so can fit in perfectly with the local farmers if I need to but I wouldn't have dreamt of speaking like that when I worked for a large multinational or if away from Aberdeenshire.Edited by biggbn on Friday 10th May 13:07
I have a Glaswegian friend who refuses to even moderate his accent and it makes me cringe - he kept to his usual lightning quick Glaswegian even on a recent trip to Morocco with locals who, despite speaking English fluently were understandably completely lost every time he opened his mouth. Speaking "properly" in a universally understandable accent is a vitally important valuable life skill.
Snow and Rocks said:
I actually think you're both agreeing with each other.
Where Emma Harper and the like fall down is acting like the "Scots" she mangles in parliament is a single entity that is/was spoken across Scotland. That might be politically convenient but is an absolute nonsense, no one speaks like that.
Living in darkest Aberdeenshire I'm pretty familiar with Doric (our local dialect) and I'd go as far as to say that in it's broadest form it would be largely unintelligible to someone even from Arbroath or Montrose. There's different words and phrases even within Aberdeenshire itself.
I've seen a Doric to English phrasebook...fit like!Where Emma Harper and the like fall down is acting like the "Scots" she mangles in parliament is a single entity that is/was spoken across Scotland. That might be politically convenient but is an absolute nonsense, no one speaks like that.
Living in darkest Aberdeenshire I'm pretty familiar with Doric (our local dialect) and I'd go as far as to say that in it's broadest form it would be largely unintelligible to someone even from Arbroath or Montrose. There's different words and phrases even within Aberdeenshire itself.
biggbn said:
A.J.M said:
How about she speaks properly given her position, salary and the importance of what’s being discussed?
Time and place for stuff eh?
You believe we should 'speak proper'? My only concession to how I speak in school as opposed to in 'public' is I try, and sometimes fail, not to swear....Time and place for stuff eh?
....and you thought the SNP was responsible for the eroding standards of education? My pupils are from Dundee. They speak Dundonian, in accent and dialect. Should I ask the ones from Nigeria, Sri Lanka etc to 'speak proper'?
Edit, my tongue is ever so slightly in my cheek here. But I don't get the 'talk proper' thing. Look how educated and eloquent many of our politicians sound....and how vile, corrupt and entirely lacking in common sense, class or manners they are
Edited by biggbn on Friday 10th May 13:07
That clearly is not her natural accent and way of speaking.
It’s put on. Badly, hence sounding so awful at it.
I’m from north Lanarkshire and went to an Airdrie high school, we have a slang and way of speaking.
When standing and reading at my brothers wedding, I made sure to speak clearly and “properly”.
Time and place for stuff.
She reminds of of the idiots when doing the oath/swear in and tried to speak “Scot’s” or Gaelic.
They didn’t speak it naturally so made an arse of it.
Snow and Rocks said:
I actually think you're both agreeing with each other.
Probably, but Scots wasn't the issue (and its amazing how some people get defensive when you mention it). Harper is the issue, and her showboating insistence on talking what she thinks is 'Scots' makes her incompetence at it all the more galling, because she is a person who literally struggles to string a coherent sentence together even when she isn't attempting to effect what she believes to be 'talking in Scots'.She should practice the basic skills before attempting something more esoteric.
Angela Constance is another one - intellectually challenged and incapable of anything beyond basic communication and I wouldn't put her in charge of running a bath, yet both her and Harper have become permanent fixtures in the upper echelons of the SNP.
Evercross said:
biggbn said:
Evercross said:
Could've been worse. Could've been Emma Harper reading Scots gibberish from a teleprompter.
That's intersting that you call Scots 'gibberish' EV.Check out some of her attempts at it on Youtube.
She's clearly getting her speeches written by the writers of Oor Wullie and The Broons.
Edited by shtu on Friday 10th May 14:53
A.J.M said:
biggbn said:
A.J.M said:
How about she speaks properly given her position, salary and the importance of what’s being discussed?
Time and place for stuff eh?
You believe we should 'speak proper'? My only concession to how I speak in school as opposed to in 'public' is I try, and sometimes fail, not to swear....Time and place for stuff eh?
....and you thought the SNP was responsible for the eroding standards of education? My pupils are from Dundee. They speak Dundonian, in accent and dialect. Should I ask the ones from Nigeria, Sri Lanka etc to 'speak proper'?
Edit, my tongue is ever so slightly in my cheek here. But I don't get the 'talk proper' thing. Look how educated and eloquent many of our politicians sound....and how vile, corrupt and entirely lacking in common sense, class or manners they are
Edited by biggbn on Friday 10th May 13:07
That clearly is not her natural accent and way of speaking.
It’s put on. Badly, hence sounding so awful at it.
I’m from north Lanarkshire and went to an Airdrie high school, we have a slang and way of speaking.
When standing and reading at my brothers wedding, I made sure to speak clearly and “properly”.
Time and place for stuff.
She reminds of of the idiots when doing the oath/swear in and tried to speak “Scot’s” or Gaelic.
They didn’t speak it naturally so made an arse of it.
Snow and Rocks said:
Like I said a few posts ago, I was brought up and live in darkest Aberdeenshire so can fit in perfectly with the local farmers if I need to but I wouldn't have dreamt of speaking like that when I worked for a large multinational or if away from Aberdeenshire.
I have a Glaswegian friend who refuses to even moderate his accent and it makes me cringe - he kept to his usual lightning quick Glaswegian even on a recent trip to Morocco with locals who, despite speaking English fluently were understandably completely lost every time he opened his mouth. Speaking "properly" in a universally understandable accent is a vitally important valuable life skill.
In my industry it's like the United Nations of people from all over the world, a diverse range of languages and dialects. Often those from overseas put us 'natives' to shame with their impeccable grasp of our mother tongue - often in crisped RP with a slight accent, but perfectly enunciated and intoned. Now throw them into a professional environment with a half dozen Weegies, Dorics and Teuchters, watch their eyes boggle. We have one Weeg project manager with the thickest accent I've ever heard, and he makes no attempt whatsoever to moderate it for non-native speakers, resorting instead to the classic tourist tactic of simply saying things louder.I have a Glaswegian friend who refuses to even moderate his accent and it makes me cringe - he kept to his usual lightning quick Glaswegian even on a recent trip to Morocco with locals who, despite speaking English fluently were understandably completely lost every time he opened his mouth. Speaking "properly" in a universally understandable accent is a vitally important valuable life skill.
I mind 25 years ago a fellow student of mine from Nigeria managed to bag himself a prestigious work placement with a company in Aberdeen. Came back to Edinburgh after the first week and I enquired how things were going - "this man, he say to me, "fit like"... WHAT THE f
k IS FIT LIKE?!" 
The purpose of spoken language is to communicate with the listener / audience; when the audience is large and varied, it behoves the speaker to use a form of speech that has the best chance of being fully understood by the greatest number. To use a dialect / accent that impedes this aim is pointless. She's just doing it for virtue signalling / herd identification, not clarity of communication.
Snow and Rocks said:
Like I said a few posts ago, I was brought up and live in darkest Aberdeenshire so can fit in perfectly with the local farmers if I need to but I wouldn't have dreamt of speaking like that when I worked for a large multinational or if away from Aberdeenshire.
I have a Glaswegian friend who refuses to even moderate his accent and it makes me cringe - he kept to his usual lightning quick Glaswegian even on a recent trip to Morocco with locals who, despite speaking English fluently were understandably completely lost every time he opened his mouth. Speaking "properly" in a universally understandable accent is a vitally important valuable life skill.
Very much this. Our vocabulary and accents should change to a degree depending on the situation. In a Dundee school I would expect Dundee accents in the classroom. I would also expect kids to speak differently among themselves in the playground than when answering questions in a classroom. Nothing wrong with a dialect as long as a more moderated accent and vocabulary can also be used and understood.I have a Glaswegian friend who refuses to even moderate his accent and it makes me cringe - he kept to his usual lightning quick Glaswegian even on a recent trip to Morocco with locals who, despite speaking English fluently were understandably completely lost every time he opened his mouth. Speaking "properly" in a universally understandable accent is a vitally important valuable life skill.
My dad told a story when as a civil engineer he was commissioning a new water supply treatment plant in northeast of Scotland. The engineer who has built the plant was Welsh. The water board guy who was going to operate it was local. My dad had to translate much of the conversation between them. Albeit this was around 1950 when there was not the exposure on TV etc to other accents we all have now.
irc said:
Snow and Rocks said:
Like I said a few posts ago, I was brought up and live in darkest Aberdeenshire so can fit in perfectly with the local farmers if I need to but I wouldn't have dreamt of speaking like that when I worked for a large multinational or if away from Aberdeenshire.
I have a Glaswegian friend who refuses to even moderate his accent and it makes me cringe - he kept to his usual lightning quick Glaswegian even on a recent trip to Morocco with locals who, despite speaking English fluently were understandably completely lost every time he opened his mouth. Speaking "properly" in a universally understandable accent is a vitally important valuable life skill.
Very much this. Our vocabulary and accents should change to a degree depending on the situation. In a Dundee school I would expect Dundee accents in the classroom. I would also expect kids to speak differently among themselves in the playground than when answering questions in a classroom. Nothing wrong with a dialect as long as a more moderated accent and vocabulary can also be used and understood.I have a Glaswegian friend who refuses to even moderate his accent and it makes me cringe - he kept to his usual lightning quick Glaswegian even on a recent trip to Morocco with locals who, despite speaking English fluently were understandably completely lost every time he opened his mouth. Speaking "properly" in a universally understandable accent is a vitally important valuable life skill.
My dad told a story when as a civil engineer he was commissioning a new water supply treatment plant in northeast of Scotland. The engineer who has built the plant was Welsh. The water board guy who was going to operate it was local. My dad had to translate much of the conversation between them. Albeit this was around 1950 when there was not the exposure on TV etc to other accents we all have now.
But, but, yes...we are straying far from bloody politicians reading prepared speeches in faux Scots to appease people...perhaps a wonderful example of someone 'speaking properly' and seeming shallow, two faced and inauthentic because of doing so...she should have stood in her own voice and been herself.
Anyhoo, interesting chat as always chaps. Peace and love all, gbn x
Edited by biggbn on Friday 10th May 16:13
Evercross said:
Snow and Rocks said:
I actually think you're both agreeing with each other.
Probably, but Scots wasn't the issue (and its amazing how some people get defensive when you mention it). Harper is the issue, and her showboating insistence on talking what she thinks is 'Scots' makes her incompetence at it all the more galling, because she is a person who literally struggles to string a coherent sentence together even when she isn't attempting to effect what she believes to be 'talking in Scots'.She should practice the basic skills before attempting something more esoteric.
Angela Constance is another one - intellectually challenged and incapable of anything beyond basic communication and I wouldn't put her in charge of running a bath, yet both her and Harper have become permanent fixtures in the upper echelons of the SNP.
biggbn said:
Evercross said:
Snow and Rocks said:
I actually think you're both agreeing with each other.
Probably, but Scots wasn't the issue (and its amazing how some people get defensive when you mention it). Harper is the issue, and her showboating insistence on talking what she thinks is 'Scots' makes her incompetence at it all the more galling, because she is a person who literally struggles to string a coherent sentence together even when she isn't attempting to effect what she believes to be 'talking in Scots'.She should practice the basic skills before attempting something more esoteric.
Angela Constance is another one - intellectually challenged and incapable of anything beyond basic communication and I wouldn't put her in charge of running a bath, yet both her and Harper have become permanent fixtures in the upper echelons of the SNP.
sherman said:
Continuity. Indy always just round the next corner. Actually just dishonest. There is a good chance Labour will need Scottish MPs for a comfortable majority after the next election. No chance of another indyref unless support for it is well over 50% for a good period of time. If they couldn't move the dial with Brexit and Boris no chance with a UK Labour govt. sherman said:
Crack on, it's 19:51 already...sherman said:
And, apparently, Independence will solve the cost of living crisis. 
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