Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 12
Discussion
biggbn said:
Change to a degree I get. But for work? For weddings? No chance. They gave me a job speaking the way I do, they invited me to the wedding knowing me well enough to do so. Why would/should I change the way I speak? An imposition on how we express ourselves is a very subtle form of censorship, and it ain't my bag. I can put my hand on my heart and say, other than not allowing them (hypocritical?) to swear, I've never told a young person to 'speak properly' . What is properly, defined by who? My dad is sure he speaks properly, once suggested he had a BBC radio voice. When he visits me, people think he sounds like one of the characters from Still Game; he doesn't, he's from Kilmarnock/Ayrshire, but to the less tuned ear, west coast is west coast. He thinks that is 'speaking proper' and that we don't. Allowing ourselves to be told what to say and how to say it is akin to being told what to think and how to think it. I adore language, love its constant state of evolution, love the way the BBC et al no longer strictly go for RP presenters. Embrace who you are. When people tell you to speak properly, they are merely telling you to talk like them, the suggestion being that they are somehow superior to you...and the irony that someone who believes we should 'speak properly' finds my idea of democratising speech and language condescending is not lost on me, but, as I suggested earler, we all look at thing differently and each to their own
But, but, yes...we are straying far from bloody politicians reading prepared speeches in faux Scots to appease people...perhaps a wonderful example of someone 'speaking properly' and seeming shallow, two faced and inauthentic because of doing so...she should have stood in her own voice and been herself.
Anyhoo, interesting chat as always chaps. Peace and love all, gbn x
I work in a very geographically diverse industry. I have to adjust the way I speak on an hourly basis dependent on the recipient. I've been doing it for decades because the industry I work in depends heavily on clear and succinct communication.But, but, yes...we are straying far from bloody politicians reading prepared speeches in faux Scots to appease people...perhaps a wonderful example of someone 'speaking properly' and seeming shallow, two faced and inauthentic because of doing so...she should have stood in her own voice and been herself.
Anyhoo, interesting chat as always chaps. Peace and love all, gbn x
Edited by biggbn on Friday 10th May 16:13
I live in a multicultural environment. I have friends and colleagues form all over Scotland and the world and my Wife is not from Scotland. My children are Scottish but have English accents and are exceptionally well spoken and easily understood in my opinion.
Conversely, even having been brought up initially on the outskirts of Glasgow, I do find it challenging to understand a broad Glaswegian dialect as much as I do a Dundonian dialect despite living pretty much slap bang in the middle of both. Hell, I have trouble when I visit the local Co' about a mile up the road.
This 'Scots' thing is utter bulls
t and having someone present themselves as if to 'speak' some sort of made up language particularly somewhere supposedly so 'diverse' is palpable.If you want to be understood globally then make yourself understood. Don't grandstand something that's out with the comprehension of the world stage
Yahonza said:
biggbn said:
Evercross said:
Snow and Rocks said:
I actually think you're both agreeing with each other.
Probably, but Scots wasn't the issue (and its amazing how some people get defensive when you mention it). Harper is the issue, and her showboating insistence on talking what she thinks is 'Scots' makes her incompetence at it all the more galling, because she is a person who literally struggles to string a coherent sentence together even when she isn't attempting to effect what she believes to be 'talking in Scots'.She should practice the basic skills before attempting something more esoteric.
Angela Constance is another one - intellectually challenged and incapable of anything beyond basic communication and I wouldn't put her in charge of running a bath, yet both her and Harper have become permanent fixtures in the upper echelons of the SNP.
disation of English, which itself has its roots in the Germanic language of early settlers. I think its a hugely important part of our culture, which is another point I'm making, is still evolving and is still in use every day. Whether its a stand alone language or not does not diminish its importance to our cultural heritage, and those trying to deny it exists or suggest its only an 'old' language run the risk of condemning it to the status of Gaelic, a vibrant language that was banned in an act of cultural apartheid. I meet people from all over the world who have thick accents, or a poor grasp of 'our' language or simply don't use the same intonations and rhythms that we do. It never occurs to me to exhort them to speak properly, why would I do so to a Glaswegian, a Dundonian, whatever? Hell, call it a language of you like, I struggle with that concept but again, that's just me out in my lonely furrow...and whatever its called, embrace it, its part of our collective soul. Anyhoo, my opinion ain't worth a damn because it IS a language and is recognised as such, so my linguistic pedantry matters not a jot
Edited by biggbn on Friday 10th May 21:01
irc said:
sherman said:
Continuity. Indy always just round the next corner. Actually just dishonest. There is a good chance Labour will need Scottish MPs for a comfortable majority after the next election. No chance of another indyref unless support for it is well over 50% for a good period of time. If they couldn't move the dial with Brexit and Boris no chance with a UK Labour govt. 
kwittery of the highest order, wouldn't expect anything less!biggbn said:
<snip>
Anyhoo, my opinion ain't worth a damn because it IS a language and is recognised as such, so my linguistic pedantry matters not a jot
I disagree entirely.Anyhoo, my opinion ain't worth a damn because it IS a language and is recognised as such, so my linguistic pedantry matters not a jot
So called 'Scots' is a pathetic attempt at indoctrinating some sort of national identity when it's not actually required.
Everyone knows we speak 'funny'. So does the rest of the world.
Some sort of mutual benchmark should be embraced rather than try to establish something that doesn't exist for the sake of being 'Scottishy'. There's plenty of Scottishness to go around without shoving it down other people's thrapples.
Big Rod said:
biggbn said:
<snip>
Anyhoo, my opinion ain't worth a damn because it IS a language and is recognised as such, so my linguistic pedantry matters not a jot
I disagree entirely.Anyhoo, my opinion ain't worth a damn because it IS a language and is recognised as such, so my linguistic pedantry matters not a jot
So called 'Scots' is a pathetic attempt at indoctrinating some sort of national identity when it's not actually required.
Everyone knows we speak 'funny'. So does the rest of the world.
Some sort of mutual benchmark should be embraced rather than try to establish something that doesn't exist for the sake of being 'Scottishy'. There's plenty of Scottishness to go around without shoving it down other people's thrapples.
biggbn said:
....again, I don't think it's a language. Interesting debate though.
OK, I'll acknowledge that I maybe misread and I apologise.I'm still aggrieved that it was needlessly foisted upon my children. It serves no purpose and a complete waste of funds that could be used more productively elsewhere.
Big Rod said:
biggbn said:
....again, I don't think it's a language. Interesting debate though.
OK, I'll acknowledge that I maybe misread and I apologise.I'm still aggrieved that it was needlessly foisted upon my children. It serves no purpose and a complete waste of funds that could be used more productively elsewhere.
Composer62 said:
"Scots" isn't a "language" it's a collection of local dialects in the same way that "English" is. The version that Robert Burns wrote down is no more definitive than "Scouse" is to English.
I see what you are getting at, but English is a "Language". All languages change over time - the modern version being the dominant language of the world, if not by numbers (Mandarin far outstripping everything else), but by being the standard in so many areas.
The Greens...they must be raging, first being kicked out of government and now Swinney back tracking on thier policies, the other day Harvie was cleary very angry at FMQ, I wonder how long it will be till the toys are well and truly chucked out the pram.
As much as they all want to keep their snouts in the trough Harvie can't help being an angry wee man when he doesn't get his own way and may at some point think to hell with them were off.
Just a thought.
As much as they all want to keep their snouts in the trough Harvie can't help being an angry wee man when he doesn't get his own way and may at some point think to hell with them were off.
Just a thought.
Klippie said:
The Greens...they must be raging, first being kicked out of government and now Swinney back tracking on thier policies, the other day Harvie was cleary very angry at FMQ, I wonder how long it will be till the toys are well and truly chucked out the pram.
As much as they all want to keep their snouts in the trough Harvie can't help being an angry wee man when he doesn't get his own way and may at some point think to hell with them were off.
Just a thought.
Just real life kicking over ambitious green virtue signalling targets in the baws. They were never going to meet the 2030 targets. The easy wins have been done. Shut coal power stations. Shut Ravenscraig etc while offshoring manufacturing and CO2 to China. Once they started coming for people's cars, gas boilers, and wood burners there was always going to be a reckoning.As much as they all want to keep their snouts in the trough Harvie can't help being an angry wee man when he doesn't get his own way and may at some point think to hell with them were off.
Just a thought.
As for Harvie? Shut your face until you are using a heat pump in your flat before telling other people how to heat their homes.
And the gender bill? Which part of Supreme Court don't you understand? That bill is as dead as the bottle return scheme.
A.J.M said:
The talk of Scot’s language reminded me of the poem from the baby box we got last October.
Is this the caricature of “Scot’s” she’s trying to mimic?
As it’s utter cringe gibberish.
Does anyone on here speak like this in real life?
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