Ped gets 3 years for manslaughter of cyclist hit by car…

[monthou]

The Three D Mucketeer said:

Yes .. It's against the law.
and if you don't know it's illegal to drive a motorised vehicle on a pavement ( I do question the use of mobility scooters especially those that exceed 20mph) which have resulted in deaths to pedestrians !!!
Well she did do harm , to herself and to the accussed.

Edited by The Three D Mucketeer on Saturday 11th May 18:56

It's funny how common sense goes out the window and"it's against the lawl" becomes so important all of a sudden when it's something we disagree with.
Ever drive at 31 in a 30?

edit: and you're blaming her. Nice.

[The Three D Mucketeer]

monthou said:

The Three D Mucketeer said:

Yes .. It's against the law.
and if you don't know it's illegal to drive a motorised vehicle on a pavement ( I do question the use of mobility scooters especially those that exceed 20mph) which have resulted in deaths to pedestrians !!!
Well she did do harm , to herself and to the accussed.

Edited by The Three D Mucketeer on Saturday 11th May 18:56

It's funny how common sense goes out the window and"it's against the lawl" becomes so important all of a sudden when it's something we disagree with.
Ever drive at 31 in a 30?

edit: and you're blaming her. Nice.

We all have responsibilities for our own actions and the effect they have on other people.

[monthou]

The Three D Mucketeer said:

monthou said:

The Three D Mucketeer said:

Yes .. It's against the law.
and if you don't know it's illegal to drive a motorised vehicle on a pavement ( I do question the use of mobility scooters especially those that exceed 20mph) which have resulted in deaths to pedestrians !!!
Well she did do harm , to herself and to the accussed.

Edited by The Three D Mucketeer on Saturday 11th May 18:56

It's funny how common sense goes out the window and"it's against the lawl" becomes so important all of a sudden when it's something we disagree with.
Ever drive at 31 in a 30?

edit: and you're blaming her. Nice.

We all have responsibilities for our own actions and the effect they have on other people.

Hypocrite spouts platitude shocker.

[The Three D Mucketeer]

I've had plenty of speeding fines to prove it ... it's called breaking the law,
When my mother was 78 and suffering from Macular Degeneration of her eyes , I took her car keys from her and sold her car ... much to her displeasure but it was the safest thing to do for all concerned .. But why did this Lady ride on pavements as a matter of practice ?

[monthou]

The Three D Mucketeer said:

I've had plenty of speeding fines to prove it ... it's called breaking the law,
When my mother was 78 and suffering from Macular Degeneration of her eyes , I took her car keys from her and sold her car ... much to her displeasure but it was the safest thing to do for all concerned .. But why did this Lady ride on pavements as a matter of practice ?

Why are you blaming a dead 70-odd year old lady who was cycling at 4.5mph on a pavement that may or may not have been a shared space?

That you are says nothing about her and everything about you.

[The Three D Mucketeer]

The average speed of a cyclist is reported as 14.1 mph ... A long time ago when I had a bicycle I found it very difficult to ride without weaving at walking pace of 3 mph ... So i'm uncertain of the stability at 4.5 mph on a pavement.

[monthou]

The Three D Mucketeer said:

The average speed of a cyclist is reported as 14.1 mph

Source for that? It sounds high to me. Even if true it has no relevance to this case.

The Three D Mucketeer said:

... A long time ago when I had a bicycle I found it very difficult to ride without weaving at walking pace of 3 mph ... So i'm uncertain of the stability at 4.5 mph on a pavement.

Cool story.
Not sure what the point is - ban old ladies from cycling?

[bmwmike]

The Three D Mucketeer said:

The average speed of a cyclist is reported as 14.1 mph ... A long time ago when I had a bicycle I found it very difficult to ride without weaving at walking pace of 3 mph ... So i'm uncertain of the stability at 4.5 mph on a pavement.

Maybe you were just crap at cycling ?

[heebeegeetee]

The Three D Mucketeer said:

The average speed of a cyclist is reported as 14.1 mph ... A long time ago when I had a bicycle I found it very difficult to ride without weaving at walking pace of 3 mph ... So i'm uncertain of the stability at 4.5 mph on a pavement.

It's in the judgement (or in one of the 3 hearings). The police had footage from a Sainsbury's camera and estimated her speed at 4.5mph. The motorists thought both parties were stationary. It's also in the judgement that it was Grey who moved into the path of Ward. It's in the judgement that Ward moved to avoid Grey.

You still haven't said what the relevance is of Ward being on the pavement. In case you hadn't noticed, it wasn't Ward on trial.

What relevance does Ward have to Grey being on trial?Ward didn't force Grey to do anything.

As always, and I really do mean always, you've shown it's difficult to criticise cycling with honesty and accuracy. You have had to ignore the facts of the case and also employ epic hypocrisy, because you WILL have driven cars on pavements and will in future, because everyone* does.

• To save yourself wasting your time arguing semantics, I think we should agree that the percentage of drivers who genuinely never drive illegally on pavements is probably too small a figure to calculate.

[heebeegeetee]

monthou said:

The Three D Mucketeer said:

Yes .. It's against the law.
and if you don't know it's illegal to drive a motorised vehicle on a pavement ( I do question the use of mobility scooters especially those that exceed 20mph) which have resulted in deaths to pedestrians !!!
Well she did do harm , to herself and to the accussed.

Edited by The Three D Mucketeer on Saturday 11th May 18:56

It's funny how common sense goes out the window and"it's against the lawl" becomes so important all of a sudden when it's something we disagree with.
Ever drive at 31 in a 30?

edit: and you're blaming her. Nice.

Agreed. Here we are, essentially on a forum that celebrates everything to do with breaking the law with motor cars. Speed Matters. We celebrate breaking speed limits and flouting any rules on noise. Sympathy is almost always expressed to those caught breaking the law, including the chap recently who has 2x speeding penalties and has now been caught driving uninsured.

The consequences when things go wrong with machines weighing tonnes being driven over the speed limit are massively greater than an old lady with a hearing impediment cycling slowly on a pavement.

I think, to carp about a 77 yr old lady cycling slowly on a pavement you have to be a full on old man/boomer/gammon/Havers/Talk TV/GB News right wing muppet. To be bothered about the elderly (and indeed children, as some are) cycling slowly on pavements (and BTW it is pretty certain that this was a shared path) I think there has to be something wrong with you. You've lost the plot.

[Vanden Saab]

heebeegeetee said:

Agreed. Here we are, essentially on a forum that celebrates everything to do with breaking the law with motor cars. Speed Matters. We celebrate breaking speed limits and flouting any rules on noise. Sympathy is almost always expressed to those caught breaking the law, including the chap recently who has 2x speeding penalties and has now been caught driving uninsured.

The consequences when things go wrong with machines weighing tonnes being driven over the speed limit are massively greater than an old lady with a hearing impediment cycling slowly on a pavement.

I think, to carp about a 77 yr old lady cycling slowly on a pavement you have to be a full on old man/boomer/gammon/Havers/Talk TV/GB News right wing muppet. To be bothered about the elderly (and indeed children, as some are) cycling slowly on pavements (and BTW it is pretty certain that this was a shared path) I think there has to be something wrong with you. You've lost the plot.

So close, if only you had included flat roof pubs I would have completed my Sunday othering bingo card less than 2 hours into the day.

[Electro1980]

monthou said:

The Three D Mucketeer said:

The average speed of a cyclist is reported as 14.1 mph

Source for that? It sounds high to me. Even if true it has no relevance to this case.

This is the only reference I can find to 14.1 mph:

https://www.bicycling.com/training/a43031175/avera...

“[Strava] data on average cycling speeds and distances for users in the United States, breaking it down farther by leisure rides versus commutes, as well as pavement rides versus dirt rides, to help provide a little context for the data.
…
In a nutshell, the average cycling speed for leisure rides performed on pavement (in miles per hour) is 14.1 mph, with an average distance of 19.2 miles.“

So, a specific subset of Strava users, who are going to be much quicker than the average person, never mind an elderly lady slowly riding round town on a sit up and beg bike.

[heebeegeetee]

Vanden Saab said:

So close, if only you had included flat roof pubs I would have completed my Sunday othering bingo card less than 2 hours into the day.

Come again? Calling out the tiny minds who employ epic hypocrisy and a dose of wild inaccuracy to carp on about a 77 yr old cycling slowly on a pavement is absolutely not othering, quite the opposite in fact.

[Evanivitch]

heebeegeetee said:

As always, and I really do mean always, you've shown it's difficult to criticise cycling with honesty and accuracy. You have had to ignore the facts of the case and also employ epic hypocrisy, because you WILL have driven cars on pavements and will in future, because everyone* does.

• To save yourself wasting your time arguing semantics, I think we should agree that the percentage of drivers who genuinely never drive illegally on pavements is probably too small a figure to calculate.

In what world is driving on the pavement normal!?

[Vanden Saab]

Evanivitch said:

heebeegeetee said:

As always, and I really do mean always, you've shown it's difficult to criticise cycling with honesty and accuracy. You have had to ignore the facts of the case and also employ epic hypocrisy, because you WILL have driven cars on pavements and will in future, because everyone* does.

• To save yourself wasting your time arguing semantics, I think we should agree that the percentage of drivers who genuinely never drive illegally on pavements is probably too small a figure to calculate.

In what world is driving on the pavement normal!?

Haven't you been paying attention everybody drives over the pavement to park their car on their drive.

[Electro1980]

Evanivitch said:

In what world is driving on the pavement normal!?

Go walking around any old village or city centre with narrow streets and you’ll see people regularly mounting the kerb and driving down the pavement rather than reversing to let the car going the other way through, or just learning how wide their car is. I can think of one particular narrow road near a school near me where drivers regularly drive on the pavement to pass each other, despite the primary age children walking there.

Then there is all the pavement parking, not just two wheels, but fully on the pavement where it is wide enough.

[bmwmike]

Evanivitch said:

In what world is driving on the pavement normal!?

Parking two wheels on the pavement is normalised in many places in the UK. Sadly. I'd count that as driving on the pavement.

[heebeegeetee]

Vanden Saab said:

Haven't you been paying attention everybody drives over the pavement to park their car on their drive.

Thanks for missing the bleeding obvious.

What you describe is legal. I am discussing the bit that is not legal. The laws that *everyone* breaks, and then has the absolute brass neck to complain about a 77 yr old woman breaking the law to a far lesser effect on others.

There's barely the words in the English language to describe the level of hypocrisy.

[scenario8]

Electro1980 said:

This is the only reference I can find to 14.1 mph:

https://www.bicycling.com/training/a43031175/avera...

“[Strava] data on average cycling speeds and distances for users in the United States, breaking it down farther by leisure rides versus commutes, as well as pavement rides versus dirt rides, to help provide a little context for the data.
…
In a nutshell, the average cycling speed for leisure rides performed on pavement (in miles per hour) is 14.1 mph, with an average distance of 19.2 miles.“

So, a specific subset of Strava users, who are going to be much quicker than the average person, never mind an elderly lady slowly riding round town on a sit up and beg bike.

Averaging 14.1 mph? Yeah, I could understand the rather select Strava using community achieving that. The wider cycling public? A huge number rarely hit14.1mph other than on downhill sections. I know I don’t.

[Vanden Saab]

heebeegeetee said:

Vanden Saab said:

Haven't you been paying attention everybody drives over the pavement to park their car on their drive.

Thanks for missing the bleeding obvious.

What you describe is legal. I am discussing the bit that is not legal. The laws that *everyone* breaks, and then has the absolute brass neck to complain about a 77 yr old woman breaking the law to a far lesser effect on others.

There's barely the words in the English language to describe the level of hypocrisy.

While we have all seen drivers encroach onto pavements at some point or another, I cannot remember the last time I saw a car driving to work or the shops only on the pavement rather than using the road. Let alone doing it on a regular basis everytime they went out.
May be we should allow old people to drive on the pavement because it would be safer for them.

Edited by Vanden Saab on Sunday 12th May 09:41