Why is there so much hatred and conflict in the world?
Discussion
Rufus Stone said:
I can't help wondering if it's because the current generations have no knowledge of the atrocities of large scale war. I think the human race is regressing not progressing. You might think that globalisation of business and largely worldwide access to information and people via the internet would make people realise that we are one planet and need to get along, but the red lines on the map are just getting brighter.
This is wrong. The world has never been so peaceful, no World Wars etc. This is also why we have so much woke nonsense going on, pretty much nothing to worry about any more makes room for that BS. TX.
Klippie said:
Religeon and Imperialism the two main causes of conflict, and sometimes on a global scale.
Though in the last century the vast majority of casualties (something like 80% of all combat deaths since 1800) have been on the back of clashes between secular ideologies. And when it comes to states murdering their own, radical secular states are light years ahead of the pack! One could see a hint of imperialism in these conflicts - but the likeness of 19thC imperialism to (say,) Lebensraum or "our SoBs" in the Cold War is pretty thin.
Captain Smerc said:
It's in our nature to destroy ourselves.
If anyone has delved into anthropology at any point, there is an awkward question around the coincidence of the different archaic human species dying out as soon as we (home sapiens) started wandering around the planet, and most likely killed them off. We are probably the smartest, and blood-thirstiest out of the lot.Terminator X said:
Rufus Stone said:
I can't help wondering if it's because the current generations have no knowledge of the atrocities of large scale war. I think the human race is regressing not progressing. You might think that globalisation of business and largely worldwide access to information and people via the internet would make people realise that we are one planet and need to get along, but the red lines on the map are just getting brighter.
This is wrong. The world has never been so peaceful, no World Wars etc. This is also why we have so much woke nonsense going on, pretty much nothing to worry about any more makes room for that BS. TX.
So this 'woke nonsense, BS' you mention has the propensity to maintain world peace and also bring peace to where it is lacking. We need more of it not less.
Unless that is, you consider the persecution of people based upon race, religion, gender or sexuality to be part of a nice peaceful world.
StevieBee said:
Terminator X said:
Rufus Stone said:
I can't help wondering if it's because the current generations have no knowledge of the atrocities of large scale war. I think the human race is regressing not progressing. You might think that globalisation of business and largely worldwide access to information and people via the internet would make people realise that we are one planet and need to get along, but the red lines on the map are just getting brighter.
This is wrong. The world has never been so peaceful, no World Wars etc. This is also why we have so much woke nonsense going on, pretty much nothing to worry about any more makes room for that BS. TX.
So this 'woke nonsense, BS' you mention has the propensity to maintain world peace and also bring peace to where it is lacking. We need more of it not less.
Unless that is, you consider the persecution of people based upon race, religion, gender or sexuality to be part of a nice peaceful world.
To go back to the OP's point, have the global conflicts of the last century taught us anything about the fact that war is an abomination and that there has to be a better way?
You would think so, But, when you look back, no it didn't. Almost immediately the US and USSR got straight into the Cold War and of course there was Vietnam, etc.
So have we learned anything? Well some of us have. But not enough. There will always be selfishness, greed and hatred of others built into humans. It is as if some will invent a conflict if there isn't one already.
Religion has been getting a bit of a kicking on this thread and it's probably well earned, especially as it can be deliberately misinterpreted to manipulate the vulnerable and uneducated.
All pretty ironic when all the religions I know of, at their core, set out to battle the basest elements of human nature and produce peaceful caring people. Nevertheless it is now of more harm than good imho and the sooner humanity moves on from it the better.
You would think so, But, when you look back, no it didn't. Almost immediately the US and USSR got straight into the Cold War and of course there was Vietnam, etc.
So have we learned anything? Well some of us have. But not enough. There will always be selfishness, greed and hatred of others built into humans. It is as if some will invent a conflict if there isn't one already.
Religion has been getting a bit of a kicking on this thread and it's probably well earned, especially as it can be deliberately misinterpreted to manipulate the vulnerable and uneducated.
All pretty ironic when all the religions I know of, at their core, set out to battle the basest elements of human nature and produce peaceful caring people. Nevertheless it is now of more harm than good imho and the sooner humanity moves on from it the better.
Dagnir said:
Meanwhile back in reality....
Probably close to reality. Pick your own list of "2024's top warmongers and tyrants" and then consider how many of them are social progressives - or are even remotely tolerant of socially progressive interest groups.
The havens of social justice movements are invariably liberal democracies, which don't tend to fight amongst themselves regardless, so the "woke = not warlike" connection might be coincidence - but they're all hardwired together none the less.
swisstoni said:
To go back to the OP's point, have the global conflicts of the last century taught us anything about the fact that war is an abomination and that there has to be a better way?
You would think so, But, when you look back, no it didn't. Almost immediately the US and USSR got straight into the Cold War and of course there was Vietnam, etc.
So have we learned anything? Well some of us have. But not enough. There will always be selfishness, greed and hatred of others built into humans. It is as if some will invent a conflict if there isn't one already.
Religion has been getting a bit of a kicking on this thread and it's probably well earned, especially as it can be deliberately misinterpreted to manipulate the vulnerable and uneducated.
All pretty ironic when all the religions I know of, at their core, set out to battle the basest elements of human nature and produce peaceful caring people. Nevertheless it is now of more harm than good imho and the sooner humanity moves on from it the better.
If the entire world was as civilised as the west, I think there would much stronger consensus that war is hell on earth. The issue is of course that a lot of countries/societies are more primitive, anti-science, less civilised etc... than we are.You would think so, But, when you look back, no it didn't. Almost immediately the US and USSR got straight into the Cold War and of course there was Vietnam, etc.
So have we learned anything? Well some of us have. But not enough. There will always be selfishness, greed and hatred of others built into humans. It is as if some will invent a conflict if there isn't one already.
Religion has been getting a bit of a kicking on this thread and it's probably well earned, especially as it can be deliberately misinterpreted to manipulate the vulnerable and uneducated.
All pretty ironic when all the religions I know of, at their core, set out to battle the basest elements of human nature and produce peaceful caring people. Nevertheless it is now of more harm than good imho and the sooner humanity moves on from it the better.
There are exceptions of course (Russia and her imperalism being a grey area) but when was the last time a true western nation started a war with another western nation?
AmyRichardson said:
Probably close to reality.
Pick your own list of "2024's top warmongers and tyrants" and then consider how many of them are social progressives - or are even remotely tolerant of socially progressive interest groups.
The havens of social justice movements are invariably liberal democracies, which don't tend to fight amongst themselves regardless, so the "woke = not warlike" connection might be coincidence - but they're all hardwired together none the less.
Get what you're saying but it's not wokeness that prevents us from being warmongers.....it's being a civilised, western democracy.Pick your own list of "2024's top warmongers and tyrants" and then consider how many of them are social progressives - or are even remotely tolerant of socially progressive interest groups.
The havens of social justice movements are invariably liberal democracies, which don't tend to fight amongst themselves regardless, so the "woke = not warlike" connection might be coincidence - but they're all hardwired together none the less.
A few years ago before we got infected with woke nonsense, we were not a warmongering nation.
A crude example but its a bit like saying straight, masculine men are more prone to like contact sports but it's not liking contact sports that makes them straight and/or masculine.
otolith said:
Dagnir said:
A few years ago before we got infected with woke nonsense, we were not a warmongering nation.
How many years ago? You're going to find a West v West war that started 10 years ago now aren't you
No, I was just thinking that we've been doing things which have been described as warmongering for as long as I can remember - whether it was allegedly allowing the Falklands crisis to escalate to an electorally convenient war, or the various expeditions on the shirt tails of the Americans. If anything I think we've been less willing to wage war since Blair got himself labelled a war criminal, with Cameron losing the vote to bomb Syria. There have been subsequent actions, bombing ISIL and Houthis, but nothing of the scale of our previous adventures.
otolith said:
No, I was just thinking that we've been doing things which have been described as warmongering for as long as I can remember - whether it was allegedly allowing the Falklands crisis to escalate to an electorally convenient war, or the various expeditions on the shirt tails of the Americans. If anything I think we've been less willing to wage war since Blair got himself labelled a war criminal, with Cameron losing the vote to bomb Syria. There have been subsequent actions, bombing ISIL and Houthis, but nothing of the scale of our previous adventures.
IDD with most of that.Well there are some exceptions (protecting integral international trade from the Houthis for example) and whilst yes, we do still get involved when we could choose not to....my point was about starting West v West wars.
Without the less civilised nations being such a tinder box for war, I don't think we would have been warmongering nearly as much.
I'm not blaming them btw.....quite often it's as much of an excuse as it is a cause.
Edited by Dagnir on Monday 13th May 13:46
otolith said:
No, I was just thinking that we've been doing things which have been described as warmongering for as long as I can remember - whether it was allegedly allowing the Falklands crisis to escalate to an electorally convenient war, or the various expeditions on the shirt tails of the Americans. If anything I think we've been less willing to wage war since Blair got himself labelled a war criminal, with Cameron losing the vote to bomb Syria. There have been subsequent actions, bombing ISIL and Houthis, but nothing of the scale of our previous adventures.
I think Obama decided that these 'expeditions' had to end and perhaps surprisingly, given that they are polar opposites, so did Trump. But probably for less noble reasons.Which is all great in itself apart from how this emboldens other powers in the world to f
k around more.It really is all pathetic and inevitable. I'm pretty sure 'we' are about to start kicking off about who 'owns' what on the Moon!
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