St. James' Place - a review…

[OddCat]

mikey_b said:

I managed to find the full version of it via Google - I think it was viewable via LinkedIn in the end. Took all of two minutes to get it.

In the end ? That doesn't sound like 'all of two minutes'

"It was a traumatic journey - but we got there in the end"

"Blimey, sounds horrendous. How many hours did it take"

"Oh, only two minutes"

"What ???"

[bitchstewie]

OddCat said:

So, all these SJP clients would be better off with their money in a box under the bed ?

Or using some Mickey Mouse here today, gone tomorrow, indi IFA ?

Righty ho.

I don't see many stories from people who are worse off having become an SJP client. And before folks jump on here saying "oh, but had they used XYZ Advisers instead, they'd have paid fourpence ha'penny less in charges", I'm talking worse off not slightly less better off.

It's fine slagging off SJP but with the number of qualified advisers dropping like a stone, where are their one million clients going to go ?

Caddyshack said:

I know quite a few SJP guys, there definitely was a very cleverly trained way of dealing with prospective clients, if you had £250k to invest they would give the impression that they only really dealt with £1m plus but they would do you a favour, same if you needed a £500k mortgage, they normally only ever dealt with £2m+ but just this once they would help you out.

Yeah I kind of see your point

[Ken_Code]

OddCat said:

So, all these SJP clients would be better off with their money in a box under the bed ?

Or using some Mickey Mouse here today, gone tomorrow, indi IFA ?

Righty ho.

I don't see many stories from people who are worse off having become an SJP client. And before folks jump on here saying "oh, but had they used XYZ Advisers instead, they'd have paid fourpence ha'penny less in charges", I'm talking worse off not slightly less better off.

It's fine slagging off SJP but with the number of qualified advisers dropping like a stone, where are their one million clients going to go ?

Yes, that’s right, all those in finance panning them are suggesting that clients put their money in a box instead.

Are you another one with no background in finance convinced that they are a decent choice?

[mikey_b]

OddCat said:

So, all these SJP clients would be better off with their money in a box under the bed ?

Or using some Mickey Mouse here today, gone tomorrow, indi IFA ?

Righty ho.

I don't see many stories from people who are worse off having become an SJP client. And before folks jump on here saying "oh, but had they used XYZ Advisers instead, they'd have paid fourpence ha'penny less in charges", I'm talking worse off not slightly less better off.

It's fine slagging off SJP but with the number of qualified advisers dropping like a stone, where are their one million clients going to go ?

If you genuinely think the difference in financial outcomes between spending 20-30 years saving with SJPs offerings compared to others with lower fees is fourpence ha’penny, or even that you’ll end up ‘slightly less better off’, then you really are clueless.

It can quite easily be a six-figure difference. For people earning above average salary and who are keen to put money aside for their future, it probably will be a six-figure difference.

[xeny]

OddCat said:

I don't see many stories from people who are worse off having become an SJP client. And before folks jump on here saying "oh, but had they used XYZ Advisers instead, they'd have paid fourpence ha'penny less in charges", I'm talking worse off not slightly less better off.

How about significantly less better off?

Look at https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comment... for example (spat out via google) - 5 years of investing, 2% fees/year, 5% initial fee, so 15% to SJP, and they have seen a 5% total return.

[bitchstewie]

It's really simple just use this and see the impact of fees and charges.

https://larrybates.ca/t-rex-score/

The impact is even worse if your investments perform poorly in the first place.

Good thing many SJP funds don't regularly feature in lists of dog funds isn't it

[xeny]

Ken_Code said:

That was on the reading list when I started my graduate course in my first bank in the ‘90s.

With what intent? Seek to minimise cost to the customer, or telling you to prioritise picking a good yacht?

[Ken_Code]

xeny said:

With what intent? Seek to minimise cost to the customer, or telling you to prioritise picking a good yacht?

The former.

My bank was very much focussing on customer service (customers being large corporates, governments, etc), and they wanted to try to make sure from the start that new joiners understood this.

[funinhounslow]

OddCat said:

So, all these SJP clients would be better off with their money in a box under the bed ?

Well a box under the bed won't charge you 6% to get your money out (yes I know this "early exit fee" is going next year...)

OddCat said:

It's fine slagging off SJP but with the number of qualified advisers dropping like a stone, where are their one million clients going to go ?

Vanguard?

[ATG]

OddCat said:

It's fine slagging off SJP but with the number of qualified advisers dropping like a stone, where are their one million clients going to go ?

Not sure that's a serious question, but anyway...

Their wealthier clients could switch to the private client services provided by any number of banks.

But their average punter is being sold services they simply don't need. They'd be better off getting a recommendation from a local accountant or solicitor to help find an advisor, have an initial in-depth assessment of their finances, tax position and objectives, come up with a plan that is cheap to execute and maintain ... and then just stick to it. If your circumstances change materially, you reassess your position. That's it. Your solicitor is not a financial advisor, but given they should be familiar with your financial position and plans already because they will have drawn up your will (because we should all have one of those, right?), they can sense-check whether the outcome of the engagement with the IFA seems reasonable. You should be looking to pay for advice rather than have the IFA be remunerated by selling you stuff.

[Mr Pointy]

Oh, look who's back shilling for SJP.

[bitchstewie]

ATG said:

Not sure that's a serious question, but anyway...

Their wealthier clients could switch to the private client services provided by any number of banks.

But their average punter is being sold services they simply don't need. They'd be better off getting a recommendation from a local accountant or solicitor to help find an advisor, have an initial in-depth assessment of their finances, tax position and objectives, come up with a plan that is cheap to execute and maintain ... and then just stick to it. If your circumstances change materially, you reassess your position. That's it. Your solicitor is not a financial advisor, but given they should be familiar with your financial position and plans already because they will have drawn up your will (because we should all have one of those, right?), they can sense-check whether the outcome of the engagement with the IFA seems reasonable. You should be looking to pay for advice rather than have the IFA be remunerated by selling you stuff.

There is the "advice gap" but I always assumed SJP weren't interested in those customers either?

That's what's always seemd a slightly odd thing with all these SJP type outfits in that if they're targeting HNW people you'd have thought those people might have the smarts to do their homework

[Zoon]

OddCat said:

I don't see many stories from people who are worse off having become an SJP client.

My old workplace pension was wiped out by SJP charges!
So I'm definitely worse off

[bitchstewie]

I have to say "I don't see many stories from people who are worse off having become an SJP client" does seem an odd way to try to frame an expensive service that often features in dog lists and where the service paid for hasn't been provided so often that they've had to put to one side almost half a billion quid to cover refunds.

Guess who's going to be paying for that through their fees

[ILikeCake]

OddCat said:

mikey_b said:

I managed to find the full version of it via Google - I think it was viewable via LinkedIn in the end. Took all of two minutes to get it.

In the end ? That doesn't sound like 'all of two minutes'

"It was a traumatic journey - but we got there in the end"

"Blimey, sounds horrendous. How many hours did it take"

"Oh, only two minutes"

"What ???"

Is this your first time on the internet OddCat?

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll work it out eventually.

Here is the article you're struggling to access: https://archive.is/MgDkp

[Simpo Two]

Apols if this has been posted before but it just arrived in my FB feed:

'Wealth managers St James’s Place sets aside £426m for client refunds'

https://online-signup.co.uk/cr-sjp/?utm_source=CRS...

[xeny]

bhstewie said:

That's what's always seemd a slightly odd thing with all these SJP type outfits in that if they're targeting HNW people you'd have thought those people might have the smarts to do their homework

They put their time/effort into the skills/promotions that got them to that point, not what to to do with the money afterwards?

[OddCat]

So the main issue for the SJP haters on here is that SJP are more expensive than similar services elsewhere?

[bitchstewie]

I don't think you have to be a "SJP hater" to think that high fees combined with so many poorly performing products is not a particularly compelling proposition.

They've literally put half a billion quid to one side for refunds to customers for not providing the service the customer has paid for.

Why on earth would you or anyone else defend that?

[funinhounslow]

OddCat said:

So the main issue for the SJP haters on here is that SJP are more expensive than similar services elsewhere?

From the article linked above:

(Fees) would reduce the returns from a £100,000 investment into an open-ended fund growing at 5 per cent a year by about 2.2 percentage points annually.



That is not just “more expensive” it’s daylight robbery.

And if you twig in the first few years and want out, they help themselves to an “exit charge” before returning your money… Though in fairness this is being abolished next year

Like I suggested earlier why not just get a couple of boring Vanguard index trackers?