Discussion
Jader1973 said:
Alexandra said:
I don't think it's doing either sex any good in perpetuating the perception that all men are potentially rapists/killers. We have to get past this cycle of idiocracy.
Well said.As the father of a teenage son I am concerned about the potential damage the message that is currently being pushed by the media in Australia is doing, which is basically “All men are potential murderers / rapists / domestic abusers”.
It isn’t a great message to be giving teenage boys who are trying to navigate growing up.
If you learn about the world via the internet you get a very negatively biased view because the crazy stories are the ones that get clicks.
It is essentially modeling the behaviour of others on the worst examples.
Leon R said:
Jader1973 said:
Alexandra said:
I don't think it's doing either sex any good in perpetuating the perception that all men are potentially rapists/killers. We have to get past this cycle of idiocracy.
Well said.As the father of a teenage son I am concerned about the potential damage the message that is currently being pushed by the media in Australia is doing, which is basically “All men are potential murderers / rapists / domestic abusers”.
It isn’t a great message to be giving teenage boys who are trying to navigate growing up.
If you learn about the world via the internet you get a very negatively biased view because the crazy stories are the ones that get clicks.
It is essentially modeling the behaviour of others on the worst examples.
WCZ said:
Noticed this question blowing up on social media recently:
Alone in the woods at night, would you encounter a completely randomly selected man or a bear
The majority of females surveyed responded a bear.
I had a look around various forums and such as well as asking a few female friends this myself and was surprised that was their answer too - to me this is a bit of a shock of just how badly men appear to be perceived by females - perhaps I’m out of touch or something ! (Unless people just aren’t scared of bears at all!)
Seems straightforward. A bear has every reason to be alone in the woods at night, and a man generally doesn't.Alone in the woods at night, would you encounter a completely randomly selected man or a bear
The majority of females surveyed responded a bear.
I had a look around various forums and such as well as asking a few female friends this myself and was surprised that was their answer too - to me this is a bit of a shock of just how badly men appear to be perceived by females - perhaps I’m out of touch or something ! (Unless people just aren’t scared of bears at all!)
Leon R said:
This is what happens when you let social media build your outlook on society, but putting your guard up based on other people’s experiences is a very psychologically damaging way to live.
If you learn about the world via the internet you get a very negatively biased view because the crazy stories are the ones that get clicks.
It is essentially modeling the behaviour of others on the worst examples.
Negative? It's pretty positive for Bears.If you learn about the world via the internet you get a very negatively biased view because the crazy stories are the ones that get clicks.
It is essentially modeling the behaviour of others on the worst examples.
iphonedyou said:
WCZ said:
Noticed this question blowing up on social media recently:
Alone in the woods at night, would you encounter a completely randomly selected man or a bear
The majority of females surveyed responded a bear.
I had a look around various forums and such as well as asking a few female friends this myself and was surprised that was their answer too - to me this is a bit of a shock of just how badly men appear to be perceived by females - perhaps I’m out of touch or something ! (Unless people just aren’t scared of bears at all!)
Seems straightforward. A bear has every reason to be alone in the woods at night, and a man generally doesn't.Alone in the woods at night, would you encounter a completely randomly selected man or a bear
The majority of females surveyed responded a bear.
I had a look around various forums and such as well as asking a few female friends this myself and was surprised that was their answer too - to me this is a bit of a shock of just how badly men appear to be perceived by females - perhaps I’m out of touch or something ! (Unless people just aren’t scared of bears at all!)
In fact I'm pretty sure the overwhelming majority of bad stuff happens outside of woods.
InitialDave said:
Sporky said:
I do find it amusing when men use "females" to refer to women.
It's literally dehumanising the women, and reducing them to nothing more than their sex. Probably without even thinking about it.
(awaits torrent of abuse)
Always makes me think of the FerengiIt's literally dehumanising the women, and reducing them to nothing more than their sex. Probably without even thinking about it.
(awaits torrent of abuse)
otolith said:
InitialDave said:
Sporky said:
I do find it amusing when men use "females" to refer to women.
It's literally dehumanising the women, and reducing them to nothing more than their sex. Probably without even thinking about it.
(awaits torrent of abuse)
Always makes me think of the FerengiIt's literally dehumanising the women, and reducing them to nothing more than their sex. Probably without even thinking about it.
(awaits torrent of abuse)
R.I.P Paul Ritter.
BikeBikeBIke said:
Zetec-S said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
So in a zoo, I should climb into the bear compound to get away from the hundreds of men who are freely walking around. Why have a compound at all? Just let the bears walk around the Zoo.
I thought maybe I'd misunderstood the question but checking the mumsnet thread it is literally as reported and there's a near 100% agreement.
The question is if you are walking in the woods, not in a zoo. So you have misunderstood the question.I thought maybe I'd misunderstood the question but checking the mumsnet thread it is literally as reported and there's a near 100% agreement.
Are bears less dangerous in a zoo? Or are men more dangerous in a wood? Or something else?
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Thursday 9th May 11:54
skinnyman said:
Tigerj said:
I saw this trend and couldn’t help but think how s
t it must be for a young lad growing up with social media.
Reading this and seeing this is how you are perceived by women. Vilified and told you are worse than a wild animal before even having the opportunity to act. I get the idea behind it but must be disheartening to many.
We have a 10yr old son & a 7yr old daughter, we're concerned for them both navigating their teenage years, for different but related reasons. We're worried our son will be "tarred with the same brush" as others, simply for being male, on the other hand we're worried our daughter could fall victim to one of these males.t it must be for a young lad growing up with social media.Reading this and seeing this is how you are perceived by women. Vilified and told you are worse than a wild animal before even having the opportunity to act. I get the idea behind it but must be disheartening to many.
Fun times as a parent.
Men being shocked/telling women they are being stupid because they don't realise how the risk works is missing the point. It's amazing how most women respond to say a bear - this is a reflection of just how (relatively) frequently men are a problem to women - whether that "accidently" bumping into them in a bar and touching their butt all the way to the worst serial killers. There is a lot of stuff they do to reduce the risk to themselves and despite that many have bad experiences with men. That is the point to most women answering this, it's a gamble on you meeting a bad guy (who many will have met and had issues with even in public places, not alone in the woods) who will rape you etc rather than just killing you like a bear. A lot of this bad behaviour is not seen by us men and so we underestimate the problem. Instead of saying women are stupid/not knowing the odds we should understand the concerns behind them more.
The second thing is women not thinking how the answer might be seen by men, particularly in the wider society changes - "I don't trust men, they're dangerous", despite it being meant more that they don't want to take gamble on if a guy is decent. It is concerning for me how men are portrayed and how this will impact younger men growing up in this world. They're likely to struggle at school more, partly as (IMO) it's mostly run by females and so tends towards a more female based learning style - so that likely will impact their chance of a job. These days the old boy's club of helping each other out to get a job is breaking down a lot, and there is far more females supporting new people coming into industries - this is again going to give females a better chance at success in work. With stuff like the bear-man question women look at it as a "I don't want to take a risk with an unknown man, even though I know most are ok". But a lot of us men take it as "all men are viewed as bad". Add that sort of stuff onto the views of men have it easy in the patriarchy, education and job prospects and so on it is a worry.
The world men are growing up in is very different from what it has been, but because we don't see the changes for a generation or two I fear it could swing too far the other way before it is seen, and what does that world look like? Do men aggressively push back (Andrew Tate style) or just check out (also bad but less visible)? Or something else?
One of the other issues is often we men don't say much until we have this sort of question, then we push back. Instead we should be more positive and push our own problems on their own, not as a response to women saying men are "worse than a bear". But between society pushing back (men have it easy so can't complain) and men tending to keep quiet rather than push something as a group it's hard to see how that would occur. One of the few successes I can think of where we have done that is stuff like Movember for example.
Edited by NRS on Friday 10th May 11:48
Sporky said:
I do find it amusing when men use "females" to refer to women.
It's literally dehumanising the women, and reducing them to nothing more than their sex. Probably without even thinking about it.
(awaits torrent of abuse)
It'll be because the word women has been reduced to meaning less even than sex.It's literally dehumanising the women, and reducing them to nothing more than their sex. Probably without even thinking about it.
(awaits torrent of abuse)
NRS said:
I was discussing exactly this with my girlfriend the other day. The question and men/women's responses to it reveal 2 separate issues in society. To me it feels like two things are going on.
Men being shocked/telling women they are being stupid because they don't realise how the risk works is missing the point. It's amazing how most women respond to say a bear - this is a reflection of just how (relatively) frequently men are a problem to women - whether that "accidently" bumping into them in a bar and touching their butt all the way to the worst serial killers. There is a lot of stuff they do to reduce the risk to themselves and despite that many have bad experiences with men. That is the point to most women answering this, it's a gamble on you meeting a bad guy (who many will have met and had issues with even in public places, not alone in the woods) who will rape you etc rather than just killing you like a bear. A lot of this bad behaviour is not seen by us men and so we underestimate the problem. Instead of saying women are stupid/not knowing the odds we should understand the concerns behind them more.
The second thing is women not thinking how the answer might be seen by men, particularly in the wider society changes - "I don't trust men, they're dangerous", despite it being meant more that they don't want to take gamble on if a guy is decent. It is concerning for me how men are portrayed and how this will impact younger men growing up in this world. They're likely to struggle at school more, partly as (IMO) it's mostly run by females and so tends towards a more female based learning style - so that likely will impact their chance of a job. These days the old boy's club of helping each other out to get a job is breaking down a lot, and there is far more females supporting new people coming into industries - this is again going to give females a better chance at success in work. With stuff like the bear-man question women look at it as a "I don't want to take a risk with an unknown man, even though I know most are ok". But a lot of us men take it as "all men are viewed as bad". Add that sort of stuff onto the views of men have it easy in the patriarchy, education and job prospects and so on it is a worry.
The world men are growing up in is very different from what it has been, but because we don't see the changes for a generation or two I fear it could swing too far the other way before it is seen, and what does that world look like? Do men aggressively push back (Andrew Tate style) or just check out (also bad but less visible)? Or something else?
One of the other issues is often we men don't say much until we have this sort of question, then we push back. Instead we should be more positive and push our own problems on their own, not as a response to women saying men are "worse than a bear". But between society pushing back (men have it easy so can't complain) and men tending to keep quiet rather than push something as a group it's hard to see how that would occur. One of the few successes I can think of where we have done that is stuff like Movember for example.
Nice post - rounded, thoughtful, empathetic. Recognises the very real issues that are particular to men in the modern age without just blaming them on feminism, and recognises that the solution is for men to encourage and help each other to change to adapt rather than just raging and wishing to turn back the clock. Men being shocked/telling women they are being stupid because they don't realise how the risk works is missing the point. It's amazing how most women respond to say a bear - this is a reflection of just how (relatively) frequently men are a problem to women - whether that "accidently" bumping into them in a bar and touching their butt all the way to the worst serial killers. There is a lot of stuff they do to reduce the risk to themselves and despite that many have bad experiences with men. That is the point to most women answering this, it's a gamble on you meeting a bad guy (who many will have met and had issues with even in public places, not alone in the woods) who will rape you etc rather than just killing you like a bear. A lot of this bad behaviour is not seen by us men and so we underestimate the problem. Instead of saying women are stupid/not knowing the odds we should understand the concerns behind them more.
The second thing is women not thinking how the answer might be seen by men, particularly in the wider society changes - "I don't trust men, they're dangerous", despite it being meant more that they don't want to take gamble on if a guy is decent. It is concerning for me how men are portrayed and how this will impact younger men growing up in this world. They're likely to struggle at school more, partly as (IMO) it's mostly run by females and so tends towards a more female based learning style - so that likely will impact their chance of a job. These days the old boy's club of helping each other out to get a job is breaking down a lot, and there is far more females supporting new people coming into industries - this is again going to give females a better chance at success in work. With stuff like the bear-man question women look at it as a "I don't want to take a risk with an unknown man, even though I know most are ok". But a lot of us men take it as "all men are viewed as bad". Add that sort of stuff onto the views of men have it easy in the patriarchy, education and job prospects and so on it is a worry.
The world men are growing up in is very different from what it has been, but because we don't see the changes for a generation or two I fear it could swing too far the other way before it is seen, and what does that world look like? Do men aggressively push back (Andrew Tate style) or just check out (also bad but less visible)? Or something else?
One of the other issues is often we men don't say much until we have this sort of question, then we push back. Instead we should be more positive and push our own problems on their own, not as a response to women saying men are "worse than a bear". But between society pushing back (men have it easy so can't complain) and men tending to keep quiet rather than push something as a group it's hard to see how that would occur. One of the few successes I can think of where we have done that is stuff like Movember for example.
Alickadoo said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Said this before on other threads but if you talk to women or read their accounts there's all kinds of stuff you wouldn't even think of.
Using a mobile phone to look busy or calling someone on the walk home simply so you can hopefully ask for help quickly if needed.
Carrying car keys just so you can potentially use them as a weapon.
Or my favourite in the grim little league table was wearing headphones on the commute to work just so random creeps wouldn't try to talk to you on the train or bus.
Stuff you or I probably never even think of.
I know a woman who used to answer the door while 'pretending' to be having a conversation on the phone.Using a mobile phone to look busy or calling someone on the walk home simply so you can hopefully ask for help quickly if needed.
Carrying car keys just so you can potentially use them as a weapon.
Or my favourite in the grim little league table was wearing headphones on the commute to work just so random creeps wouldn't try to talk to you on the train or bus.
Stuff you or I probably never even think of.
It's just that world of when you read it you think "wow" because it's probably never even occurred to you let alone become a built-in part of your daily routine.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Sporky said:
I do find it amusing when men use "females" to refer to women.
It's literally dehumanising the women, and reducing them to nothing more than their sex. Probably without even thinking about it.
(awaits torrent of abuse)
Does seem to be a certain type doesn't it.It's literally dehumanising the women, and reducing them to nothing more than their sex. Probably without even thinking about it.
(awaits torrent of abuse)
k me get me off this planet now. Not allowed to use the word female?asfault said:
fk me get me off this planet now. Not allowed to use the word female?
Get a grip. Of course you are. It's a perfectly good adjective. But it shouldn't really be used a noun. k me get me off this planet now. Not allowed to use the word female?Using 'female' to refer to a particular woman ("what was the female doing in the woods at night anyway?") and - especially - 'females' to refer to women in general )("The majority of females surveyed responded 'a bear'.") comes across as dehumanising. Like you're narrating a nature documentary or writing up an anthropological study. Or, in some contexts, it comes across as like something from a serial killer's manifesto.
I've found it a fairly reliable indicator of people with (at least) questionable attitudes to women.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Alickadoo said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Said this before on other threads but if you talk to women or read their accounts there's all kinds of stuff you wouldn't even think of.
Using a mobile phone to look busy or calling someone on the walk home simply so you can hopefully ask for help quickly if needed.
Carrying car keys just so you can potentially use them as a weapon.
Or my favourite in the grim little league table was wearing headphones on the commute to work just so random creeps wouldn't try to talk to you on the train or bus.
Stuff you or I probably never even think of.
I know a woman who used to answer the door while 'pretending' to be having a conversation on the phone.Using a mobile phone to look busy or calling someone on the walk home simply so you can hopefully ask for help quickly if needed.
Carrying car keys just so you can potentially use them as a weapon.
Or my favourite in the grim little league table was wearing headphones on the commute to work just so random creeps wouldn't try to talk to you on the train or bus.
Stuff you or I probably never even think of.
It's just that world of when you read it you think "wow" because it's probably never even occurred to you let alone become a built-in part of your daily routine.
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