So, I went to Turkey for Dental Work
Discussion
Armitage.Shanks said:
The above x-ray does not show it very well but the bone was shown to have degraded around the tooth next to it hence why it was advised to take out.
Then it sounds to me like you'll definitely need to be considering a sinus lift before anything new is screwed in there.Sinus lift. Human skull above the upper jaw contains air pockets known as sinuses. They can be seen on an MRI scan but not on x-ray. If there isn't enough bone for teeth and/or implants you need a surgeon to smash in there with a hammer and chisel (some use a drill) and pack the area with artificial bone. Over a period of about three months that solidifies into real bone. After that there's enough of a fixing base for the dentist to screw in titanium sockets which are eventually used to support new artificial teeth. All in all it's long drawn out process if done properly - around nine months minimum.
I have regularly splinted teeth loosened with periodontitis to stop them drifting, but with absolute signed consent that it may not prolong the life of the teeth involved. It does however keep them in position and firms them up if they were loose. I usually splint them by gluing them together with tooth coloured filling material,composite. On a few occasions in older patients I have done linked crowns where aethetics has been the premium consideration. The vast majority of cases have been successful and the teeth have been retained longer than unsplinted ones. I would never splint healthy teeth. Cleaning is not a problem if you keep the gingival margin clear where the teeth touch,so that interdental brushes can be used, or superfloss with a floss threader. I’ve never been a great believer in flossing and have always advised interdental brushes when the need arises, that is when the interdental papillae start to recede and a gap is there that can fill with plaque. Otherwise perfect gums fill the gaps between the teeth and only brushing is necessary. This view may be controversial. Whilst we are at controversial, I’m not a great believer in filling kids baby teeth. I think it causes more trauma and doesn’t lengthen how long they are retained compared to strict dietary control and fluoride varnishes.
Thanks for uploading the pics of your teeth. My first question is, which side of the brush have you been using? You don't need to be a dentist to see that your oral hygiene is nothing short of awful.
There are multiple root canals in your dentition. My dad was a victim of drill happy dentists in the 60s, but on his xrays you can see very shallow and straight fillings which would suggest nothing was wrong with the teeth, they've been tickled with the drill and filled. When teeth are filled after decay removal, the pattern of the fillings is not straight, they follow the path the bacteria took which is always random and creates odd shapes. Secondly, to need root canal, you would have needed to have had quite deep decay to compromise the nerve. No drill happy dentist would drill that far down as drilling a little bit would get them the same fee without any post op pain. So what I'm saying is, your dietary choices over the years have definitely led to decay, over and over again, deeper and deeper, with poor plaque control and one by one the teeth on the radiograph have been restored.
The tone of the threads on here is "greedy dentists ruined my teeth" etc etc. Well just look in the mirror my friend. A lifetime of dental problems and your pics taken recently show the cause of your problems clearly on display. Zoom in and there is a thick layer of plaque on all of your teeth with the associated red band on the gum indicating chronic inflammation which means it's always there. I assume you've been to a hygienist before, received all the oral hygiene instruction, but clearly have not practiced this? The fact you uploaded your pictures with plaque on them sadly shows you don't even realise how bad your cleaning is. Whose fault is it then? We're sick and tired of seeing this. Take some responsibility for your mouth. Brush with some of the bristles clipping the gumline. They will bleed for around 2 weeks then hey presto! Bleeding stops in the absence of soft plaque! Use some interdental brushes and the same will happen between your teeth too! You are definitely not suitable for any type of advanced dentistry at the moment.
The idea of root canal treating a canine to improve it aesthetically is just bizarre. Canines are VERY important teeth. They have the thickest roots and solid structures for a reason. Often the last teeth standing in many a neglected mouth. Any dentist worth his salt would never dream of such an absurd plan to drill them down and take the nerve out, thereby reducing their lifespan to a couple of years, regardless of where on the planet they are based.
But the best comment which shows your complete lack of understanding is the one asking if splinting lower down would help, you want to floss between the porcelain? Are you worried about the plaque causing holes in the porcelain? Or getting gum disease in the porcelain?
Splinting on a 70 yr old is one thing, and even then with a blob of white filling maybe with a bit of orthodontic wire, providing linked crowns on a periodontally compromised 57 yr old who still can't brush his teeth properly...? I'll let you think about the answer to that
There are multiple root canals in your dentition. My dad was a victim of drill happy dentists in the 60s, but on his xrays you can see very shallow and straight fillings which would suggest nothing was wrong with the teeth, they've been tickled with the drill and filled. When teeth are filled after decay removal, the pattern of the fillings is not straight, they follow the path the bacteria took which is always random and creates odd shapes. Secondly, to need root canal, you would have needed to have had quite deep decay to compromise the nerve. No drill happy dentist would drill that far down as drilling a little bit would get them the same fee without any post op pain. So what I'm saying is, your dietary choices over the years have definitely led to decay, over and over again, deeper and deeper, with poor plaque control and one by one the teeth on the radiograph have been restored.
The tone of the threads on here is "greedy dentists ruined my teeth" etc etc. Well just look in the mirror my friend. A lifetime of dental problems and your pics taken recently show the cause of your problems clearly on display. Zoom in and there is a thick layer of plaque on all of your teeth with the associated red band on the gum indicating chronic inflammation which means it's always there. I assume you've been to a hygienist before, received all the oral hygiene instruction, but clearly have not practiced this? The fact you uploaded your pictures with plaque on them sadly shows you don't even realise how bad your cleaning is. Whose fault is it then? We're sick and tired of seeing this. Take some responsibility for your mouth. Brush with some of the bristles clipping the gumline. They will bleed for around 2 weeks then hey presto! Bleeding stops in the absence of soft plaque! Use some interdental brushes and the same will happen between your teeth too! You are definitely not suitable for any type of advanced dentistry at the moment.
The idea of root canal treating a canine to improve it aesthetically is just bizarre. Canines are VERY important teeth. They have the thickest roots and solid structures for a reason. Often the last teeth standing in many a neglected mouth. Any dentist worth his salt would never dream of such an absurd plan to drill them down and take the nerve out, thereby reducing their lifespan to a couple of years, regardless of where on the planet they are based.
But the best comment which shows your complete lack of understanding is the one asking if splinting lower down would help, you want to floss between the porcelain? Are you worried about the plaque causing holes in the porcelain? Or getting gum disease in the porcelain?
Splinting on a 70 yr old is one thing, and even then with a blob of white filling maybe with a bit of orthodontic wire, providing linked crowns on a periodontally compromised 57 yr old who still can't brush his teeth properly...? I'll let you think about the answer to that
Well that escalated quickly. I don’t disagree with any of the above from cringle. It comes over a tad harsh though. Not really an approach to encourage patients to come back.
Armitage, you would benefit greatly from a series of visits to a hygienist to get your gums as good as they can be before you have any work done. Otherwise it will all begin to fail within a few years. It will look great for a while, but when it all goes wrong, the dentists will have retired to their yachts and the practice will have changed hands.
Armitage, you would benefit greatly from a series of visits to a hygienist to get your gums as good as they can be before you have any work done. Otherwise it will all begin to fail within a few years. It will look great for a while, but when it all goes wrong, the dentists will have retired to their yachts and the practice will have changed hands.
cringle said:
Brush with some of the bristles clipping the gumline. They will bleed for around 2 weeks then hey presto! Bleeding stops in the absence of soft plaque!
Crinkle I like reading your info (so please continue 
) But on this point I definitely do do this, and I use an electric toothbrush, don’t press to hard etc and make sure I clean my gums. But I still seem to get plaque build up? Is there any solution ie different brush or what. I’m currently using corsodyl toothpaste as I think it might be better than the usual brands.Edited by CoolHands on Sunday 16th January 21:16
To the Dentists thanks for chiming in. I expected some strong observations and I'm not wholly disagreeing with your opinion - we've all got one.
Yes I have religiously brushed my teeth with good brushes and proprietary toothpaste. My teeth have been scaled and polished once a year by my NHS dentist but sadly I'm not aware there is a dental hygenist funded on the NHS that may have had more time to concentrate in that area. Something I will be resolving in earnest.
I note the inference that it's my fault and I'll hold my hand up to some of it but as my teeth were ruined by an opportunist money grabbing dentist when I was 14 (read my first comment) I have somewhat been left to 'polish a turd'. Whether the Dental Services available in Turkey are going to roll them in glitter we shall wait to see.
I will say that both visits I've had to private UK dentists neither of them have talked about gum management and preparatory treatment, they appeared both ready to start the work in earnest. Certainly the first guy was who offered me the £4k reduction if I paid up front
. When I discussed my intended treatment with my own Dentist, as someone with nothing to lose, he didn't say hang on sort your gums out etc first, but was in accord with the plan based on what he could see. That's his opinion (and holder of a Ph.D in dentistry), someone I trust and incidentally mentioned that significant trauma to a canine may necessitate root treatment.
I find the advice regarding splinting and connecting Crowns and the efficacy of floss most useful. I'm taking it that connecting the front Crowns to add strength with a good 'connection' to the gum the gap for flossing will not be needed.
Yes I have religiously brushed my teeth with good brushes and proprietary toothpaste. My teeth have been scaled and polished once a year by my NHS dentist but sadly I'm not aware there is a dental hygenist funded on the NHS that may have had more time to concentrate in that area. Something I will be resolving in earnest.
I note the inference that it's my fault and I'll hold my hand up to some of it but as my teeth were ruined by an opportunist money grabbing dentist when I was 14 (read my first comment) I have somewhat been left to 'polish a turd'. Whether the Dental Services available in Turkey are going to roll them in glitter we shall wait to see.
I will say that both visits I've had to private UK dentists neither of them have talked about gum management and preparatory treatment, they appeared both ready to start the work in earnest. Certainly the first guy was who offered me the £4k reduction if I paid up front
. When I discussed my intended treatment with my own Dentist, as someone with nothing to lose, he didn't say hang on sort your gums out etc first, but was in accord with the plan based on what he could see. That's his opinion (and holder of a Ph.D in dentistry), someone I trust and incidentally mentioned that significant trauma to a canine may necessitate root treatment.I find the advice regarding splinting and connecting Crowns and the efficacy of floss most useful. I'm taking it that connecting the front Crowns to add strength with a good 'connection' to the gum the gap for flossing will not be needed.
There is a continuing story as the treatment has started but this 'advice' may prove useful to others thinking of having expensive work done so I'll roll with it.
FourFoldRoot thanks for supporting with advice mid treatment before the final work in 6 months.
Cringle you seem the perfect Dentist to send a child to as I'm sure under your guardianship they'll have perfect teeth management. They'll probably be shaking like a s
tting dog prior to and during your examinations but have perfect teeth none the less.
FourFoldRoot thanks for supporting with advice mid treatment before the final work in 6 months.
Cringle you seem the perfect Dentist to send a child to as I'm sure under your guardianship they'll have perfect teeth management. They'll probably be shaking like a s
tting dog prior to and during your examinations but have perfect teeth none the less.CoolHands said:
Crinkle I like reading your info (so please continue ) But on this point I definitely do do this, and I use an electric toothbrush, don’t press to hard etc and make sure I clean my gums. But I still seem to get plaque build up? Is there any solution ie different brush or what. I’m currently using corsodyl toothpaste as I think it might be better than the usual brands.
Hello! Interesting thread.) But on this point I definitely do do this, and I use an electric toothbrush, don’t press to hard etc and make sure I clean my gums. But I still seem to get plaque build up? Is there any solution ie different brush or what. I’m currently using corsodyl toothpaste as I think it might be better than the usual brands.Edited by CoolHands on Sunday 16th January 21:16
Just a point, plague builds up even with good brushing, to help use small brushes to get between the teeth but you will need to visit a hygienist at least twice a year, I go every 3 months.
Just to chip in with some UK dentist experience.
A few years ago, I had huge gaps, (some teeth didn't grow) yellow teeth, bleeding gums etc. I didn't show my teeth in photos and just wanted them all removed and get dentures...Years of NHS visits and no preventative care.
I visited a local private dentist and he talked through a treatment plan, the first job was to stop the gum disease. Hygienist visits were necessary, lots of them before contemplating any work.
Long story truncated but, fixed the gums, Invisalign, composite enhancements, root canal and two crowns. It cost around £10k all in and two years to sort out. The work to fix took a while and it was expensive but the teeth I have now are superb and gums in good health. I have had compliments from a couple of people on my teeth post treatment, unbelievable. I could post pics of pre work but, urgh...perhaps we should start a thread on pre and post dental work?
Take your time, fix the gum problems, don't consider cost too much, go by recommendation, ease of visits etc.
I don't want dentures anymore!
Before I get back to the story here is a useful website that offers lots of advice on procedures and oral care.
https://www.electricteeth.com/uk/dental-guides/
Perhaps if I'd found it 30yrs ago all might have been different.
https://www.electricteeth.com/uk/dental-guides/
Perhaps if I'd found it 30yrs ago all might have been different.
Armitage.Shanks said:
Before I get back to the story here is a useful website that offers lots of advice on procedures and oral care.
https://www.electricteeth.com/uk/dental-guides/
Perhaps if I'd found it 30yrs ago all might have been different.
I would like to email you but you are not accepting them on PH currently.https://www.electricteeth.com/uk/dental-guides/
Perhaps if I'd found it 30yrs ago all might have been different.
OK as you know I've started the scheme of work so best continue................
Nov 21.
I’m flying out to Antalya and confirmed my attendance at the Dental Surgery. A private car would collect me from the hotel and drop me off for all appointments (included in the price).
Indeed, the transport showed up on time at the hotel and 30 mins later I was at the place. It looked brand new, state of the art and very professional. Wow the place was busy as I got the impression it works on a near 24hr basis, but certainly not a production line.
I will say I did not appear to be their ‘average’ patient. There seemed to be many 20-30yr olds having work done (veneers, whitening I presume) in a shade Rylan would be proud of. A lot seemed to be from Essex (sorry). I did think how sad it was that these people were ruining their teeth at such an early age for the sake of vanity, whereas I was there along with a few (older) others (Turkish/EU/UK/USA citizens) to fix a problem not start a career as an influencer.
I had to fill out several forms in the waiting area and wait for what seemed like 2hrs to be attended to (Note: this is the longest I had to wait every other visit I was straight in the chair). I was offered countless drinks whilst waiting and generally well looked after. Conversing in English was no problem although you are assigned a facilitator to expertly explain what’s going on and deal with any language barriers.
The first stage started with a full 3D scan of my mouth using what looked like brand-new state of the art equipment. Another wait then I was called to a treatment room (spotless again) and seen by a surgeon who would do the implants and a dentist who would do the main work. They talked me through the scan, carried out a mouth examination explaining where the issues were and what was to be done. The treatment plan was slightly revised telling them what I wanted and my expectations; there was no-upselling and I scaled back a few Crowns in the lower jaw keeping some of my own teeth for now. Work would start the next day and I was given a series of appointment over the next 8 days for both the tooth shaping to accept the Crowns, tooth removal (only two where the bridge was, the others mentioned prior to the visit passed muster), sinus lift, bone graft and 2 x implant fittings.
Top tip: Eat like a King before the work starts. Turkey is as ‘cheap as chips’ and you can eat out for a fiver. When the treatment started my diet switched to boiled eggs and bananas!
So far
Nov 21.
I’m flying out to Antalya and confirmed my attendance at the Dental Surgery. A private car would collect me from the hotel and drop me off for all appointments (included in the price).
Indeed, the transport showed up on time at the hotel and 30 mins later I was at the place. It looked brand new, state of the art and very professional. Wow the place was busy as I got the impression it works on a near 24hr basis, but certainly not a production line.
I will say I did not appear to be their ‘average’ patient. There seemed to be many 20-30yr olds having work done (veneers, whitening I presume) in a shade Rylan would be proud of. A lot seemed to be from Essex (sorry). I did think how sad it was that these people were ruining their teeth at such an early age for the sake of vanity, whereas I was there along with a few (older) others (Turkish/EU/UK/USA citizens) to fix a problem not start a career as an influencer.
I had to fill out several forms in the waiting area and wait for what seemed like 2hrs to be attended to (Note: this is the longest I had to wait every other visit I was straight in the chair). I was offered countless drinks whilst waiting and generally well looked after. Conversing in English was no problem although you are assigned a facilitator to expertly explain what’s going on and deal with any language barriers.
The first stage started with a full 3D scan of my mouth using what looked like brand-new state of the art equipment. Another wait then I was called to a treatment room (spotless again) and seen by a surgeon who would do the implants and a dentist who would do the main work. They talked me through the scan, carried out a mouth examination explaining where the issues were and what was to be done. The treatment plan was slightly revised telling them what I wanted and my expectations; there was no-upselling and I scaled back a few Crowns in the lower jaw keeping some of my own teeth for now. Work would start the next day and I was given a series of appointment over the next 8 days for both the tooth shaping to accept the Crowns, tooth removal (only two where the bridge was, the others mentioned prior to the visit passed muster), sinus lift, bone graft and 2 x implant fittings.
Top tip: Eat like a King before the work starts. Turkey is as ‘cheap as chips’ and you can eat out for a fiver. When the treatment started my diet switched to boiled eggs and bananas!
So far
Armitage.Shanks said:
Second visit must be after 6 but less than 12 months when 11 days is needed.
That middle waiting period is vital and sounds appropriate. The initial 8 days sounds a bit rushed so I hope they've worked carefully. Also 11 days at the later stages will involve "cracking on" but hopefully it will all work out.The treatment didn't feel 'rushed'.......................
Treatment
I’m not going to describe every detail of the work suffice to say some of it wasn’t pleasant (no worse than what I’ve had in a UK dentist’s chair) and given the amount of local I had didn’t really feel anything. When the teeth were ultimately prepared for Crowns there were some issues with the removal of the old ones (expected and warned about). A couple of posts were needed along with the suggestion the front 5 crowned teeth are fixed together (splinting - discussed above) but all retaining their own fixing point. The view was I may not have the strength in them if Crowned individually. I’d prefer individual Crowns to be honest so will look to re-visit this when I’m back.
The wisdom tooth and the one next to it came out without too much of a problem and the implants were drilled and fitted after the sinus lift (a somewhat unusual process!). One issue was the amount of stitches the gum needed to stop the bleeding and they wouldn’t let me leave until it had. A temporary prosthetic covered the prepared teeth which would be replaced later in the week with individual temporary Crowns that should last 12 months.
After the main work was done I was taken to the pharmacy for mouthwash, antibiotics and painkillers with strict instructions to start them and complete the course. You pay for these but again less than a tenner for the lot.
On the penultimate visit my temporary Crowns were fitted and I was asked to make sure they looked OK (shaded A1 I think as I’d chosen this colour but will probably defer to A2 for the permanent ones) and the dentist was happy with them before leaving. When confirmed they were bonded in, a bite test undertaken and a follow up visit the next day to check all was well. It was considering what I’d gone through but the gap where the implants are will take some getting used to.
Overall the treatment appeared to be well planned and thought out with the implant work being treated separate to the other work. The temporary Crowns look really good and as has been mentioned I intend to make best use of the 6 months to undertake good oral hygiene with some UK hygenist visits planned - not least to work on my own teeth that are left!
I still have a few back teeth with amalgam fillings so need to look at changing these out for white when I'm next there.
So far
Treatment
I’m not going to describe every detail of the work suffice to say some of it wasn’t pleasant (no worse than what I’ve had in a UK dentist’s chair) and given the amount of local I had didn’t really feel anything. When the teeth were ultimately prepared for Crowns there were some issues with the removal of the old ones (expected and warned about). A couple of posts were needed along with the suggestion the front 5 crowned teeth are fixed together (splinting - discussed above) but all retaining their own fixing point. The view was I may not have the strength in them if Crowned individually. I’d prefer individual Crowns to be honest so will look to re-visit this when I’m back.
The wisdom tooth and the one next to it came out without too much of a problem and the implants were drilled and fitted after the sinus lift (a somewhat unusual process!). One issue was the amount of stitches the gum needed to stop the bleeding and they wouldn’t let me leave until it had. A temporary prosthetic covered the prepared teeth which would be replaced later in the week with individual temporary Crowns that should last 12 months.
After the main work was done I was taken to the pharmacy for mouthwash, antibiotics and painkillers with strict instructions to start them and complete the course. You pay for these but again less than a tenner for the lot.
On the penultimate visit my temporary Crowns were fitted and I was asked to make sure they looked OK (shaded A1 I think as I’d chosen this colour but will probably defer to A2 for the permanent ones) and the dentist was happy with them before leaving. When confirmed they were bonded in, a bite test undertaken and a follow up visit the next day to check all was well. It was considering what I’d gone through but the gap where the implants are will take some getting used to.
Overall the treatment appeared to be well planned and thought out with the implant work being treated separate to the other work. The temporary Crowns look really good and as has been mentioned I intend to make best use of the 6 months to undertake good oral hygiene with some UK hygenist visits planned - not least to work on my own teeth that are left!
I still have a few back teeth with amalgam fillings so need to look at changing these out for white when I'm next there.
So far
Interim Update
Just to close this thread off for now pending any issues before I'm back in June:
I am now 7 weeks post treatment and whilst the temporary Crowns feel a little unusual (plasticky?) pain and tenderness has calmed down to normal. The stitches took a about 3 weeks to dissolve. I was given another set of medication as an ‘in case’ measure an am following their advice for cleaning and oral health (daily flossing) etc.
I am not allowed back until a full 6 months has passed (presumably for the implants to fix) and ideally not more than 12 months should pass. Needless to say, I’ve booked in for this June. I will say the ‘temporary’ teeth are good to the point most people believe it is the finished job!
I’ve paid the bulk of the money (up front gives a 10% discount) with a final bill to settle (c£700) when I’m next there and need to be there for 11 treatment days and the Zirconium Crowns will be handmade in the style that I want. Factoring travel and accommodation my predicted overall outlay is a third of what I’d pay in the UK.
Just to close this thread off for now pending any issues before I'm back in June:
I am now 7 weeks post treatment and whilst the temporary Crowns feel a little unusual (plasticky?) pain and tenderness has calmed down to normal. The stitches took a about 3 weeks to dissolve. I was given another set of medication as an ‘in case’ measure an am following their advice for cleaning and oral health (daily flossing) etc.
I am not allowed back until a full 6 months has passed (presumably for the implants to fix) and ideally not more than 12 months should pass. Needless to say, I’ve booked in for this June. I will say the ‘temporary’ teeth are good to the point most people believe it is the finished job!
I’ve paid the bulk of the money (up front gives a 10% discount) with a final bill to settle (c£700) when I’m next there and need to be there for 11 treatment days and the Zirconium Crowns will be handmade in the style that I want. Factoring travel and accommodation my predicted overall outlay is a third of what I’d pay in the UK.
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