Would 8 owners and delayed servicing put you off?
Discussion
KittyLitter said:
Simply because it's over my budget. It didn't sell at £54k over winter, and on face value, with the spec, mileage and OPC warranty, you'd have to wonder why.And it's black!
Jim1556 said:
KittyLitter said:
Simply because it's over my budget. It didn't sell at £54k over winter, and on face value, with the spec, mileage and OPC warranty, you'd have to wonder why.And it's black!
Nothing much sells in Winter even with £6K knocked off.
Jim1556 said:
I'm in the market for a 997.2 C2S.
I want a manual but am coming round to the idea of a PDK. Possibly!
So, I'm looking at a beautiful car at Ashgoods: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024032178...
I'm still not sure on the PDK thing, but other than that, it ticks all my boxes (apart from the steering wheel, I'd need that swapping for a Sport Design item).
However, given it's had 8 owners and 2 services in the first 5 years, would this put you off? Much as I hate resell talk, it's an issue I have to take into account...
Decent (my spec - full leather, PSE, sports seats, preferably no rear wiper) manual 997.2s are like hens teeth, so keep waiting or seriously consider a PDK?
The other one that ticks my boxes is the black manual C2S with an aerokit. Currently up at £60k, despite not selling at £56k and £54k a couple of months ago: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024012960...
Opinions please...
Some great advice in the replies to your dilemma. If we park our genuine love for all things Porsche any potential purchase, given the money you are talking about must, IMO, start off boringly with "buying with a view to resale the same day". Adopting this somewhat old fashioned mantra works to a degree.I want a manual but am coming round to the idea of a PDK. Possibly!
So, I'm looking at a beautiful car at Ashgoods: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024032178...
I'm still not sure on the PDK thing, but other than that, it ticks all my boxes (apart from the steering wheel, I'd need that swapping for a Sport Design item).
However, given it's had 8 owners and 2 services in the first 5 years, would this put you off? Much as I hate resell talk, it's an issue I have to take into account...
Decent (my spec - full leather, PSE, sports seats, preferably no rear wiper) manual 997.2s are like hens teeth, so keep waiting or seriously consider a PDK?
The other one that ticks my boxes is the black manual C2S with an aerokit. Currently up at £60k, despite not selling at £56k and £54k a couple of months ago: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024012960...
Opinions please...
I have bought several 911's over the last 10 years, making mistakes along the way. The dream spec you wish for is only seconded by some cast iron must haves that meet your litmus test :
Condition
No. Of Owners
Service History
Any of the above don't meet your feel good factor then move along to the next car on your search. I'm generalising as of course there will be excellent examples that wont immediately marry with the above three but you get where i'm coming from.
Slippydiff said:
All the above completely avoidable with the diligent use of some aluminium paste ...
100% agree, the point I was making is a car with 35k miles on it might be on original hardware or only ever replaced once at an OPC and would have been put on dry and could cause issues. After doing a complete suspension overhaul on mine 3 years ago today I have got another slight knock at the front.
The top mounts, dampers and all strut hardware is brand new, fitted in the last few weeks, all arms are less than 3 years old.
Got to find that tomorrow if I can.
The only saving grace is, as you suggest, I put aluminium paste on everything so I know I won't have to fight anything. Still bloody annoying though.
Number of owners and ancient service history wouldn’t worry me, provided that more recent servicing was done properly.
Spec definitely would. You often have to be willing to make some compromises on spec, or else you’ll be looking til the end of time, but if I wanted a manual I wouldn’t compromise there. It’s fundamental.
Spec definitely would. You often have to be willing to make some compromises on spec, or else you’ll be looking til the end of time, but if I wanted a manual I wouldn’t compromise there. It’s fundamental.
Ed.Neumann said:
100% agree, the point I was making is a car with 35k miles on it might be on original hardware or only ever replaced once at an OPC and would have been put on dry and could cause issues.
Indeed, the notion that a sub 40k mile, 12-16 year old car will be devoid of issues lurking around the corner, is fanciful. And expecting it to come apart like a 4 year old 40k mile car, is even more so.
Ed.Neumann said:
After doing a complete suspension overhaul on mine 3 years ago today I have got another slight knock at the front.
The top mounts, dampers and all strut hardware is brand new, fitted in the last few weeks, all arms are less than 3 years old.
Got to find that tomorrow if I can.
The only saving grace is, as you suggest, I put aluminium paste on everything so I know I won't have to fight anything. Still bloody annoying though.
ARB droplinks, coffin arms or tuning forks then ...Did you use OE stuff during the overhaul 3 years ago ? The top mounts, dampers and all strut hardware is brand new, fitted in the last few weeks, all arms are less than 3 years old.
Got to find that tomorrow if I can.
The only saving grace is, as you suggest, I put aluminium paste on everything so I know I won't have to fight anything. Still bloody annoying though.
Slippydiff said:
ARB droplinks, coffin arms or tuning forks then ...Did you use OE stuff during the overhaul 3 years ago ?
Meyle and CTE. But also have adjustable drop links on the front so could just be them. I had them apart around a month ago, so need to check. When I first fitted them the nearside came lose after a couple of weeks.
To be honest, now everything is new and the car is super quiet and tight, maybe if I hear the odd thing I start to think "Hmmm? what now?"
It is only going over the ridge on my driveway, that is sharp to keep the gravel in, that I hear it. And, because it was so sunny I had the windows open and the music off, so maybe it is not a problem.
Jim1556 said:
The other one that ticks my boxes is the black manual C2S with an aerokit. Currently up at £60k, despite not selling at £56k and £54k a couple of months ago: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024012960...
That one has cropped up today now at Paragon...https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/16706546
I bought a 45k mile 2009 C2S PDK from Ashgoods just after Covid lockdown.
It has 8 previous owners also. This concerned me a little, but the condition of the car and Spec, and the solid Service History from Porsche West London overrode the Owners, so I bought the car. The car is fully loaded with PCCB, factory LSD, hardback Sport Seats, Black with Silver Lip Sport Design wheels, amongst more.
The 8 Owners actually was not the issue in the end. Please go and test drive a PDK and a Manual and judge for yourself!
When I first bought the car I was not convinced, but I do love a project. The car floated at the front on dual carriageways. The steering was very light at speed. It felt like the rear of the car was going to come round on you in fast sweeping corners. And the PDK........
Standard PDK - great for cruising on Auto Routes and in traffic. But was not a scratch on later PDK/DSG gearboxes and software (coming from a mk7.5 Golf R). It's slow to shift (even in Sport Plus) and there is a noticeable delay from the pulling the paddle to the actual shift occurring, especially at low to mid revs. At redline, that's where it is fast. From the Factory, it actually shifts more like a Torque Converter full auto, than a semi manual. Very smooth with quite a bit of clutch slip. The later Software update from Porsche made this even worse (smoothed out changes with clutch slip, less aggressive/positive shifting)
Now, after owning for three years -
To remedy the PDK, I've had to modify the car substantially, something I always knew I would do regardless of the PDK performance. As with all my previous cars, I enjoy modifying to improve.
I removed the Porsche Sport Design Paddle Steering Wheel as it has a PCB inside that checks that you are not attempting to downshift and upshift at the same time, causing a shift delay. It has been replaced with a Momo Mod7 Cup Wheel and Ive fitted MME Motorsport shifters mounted behind the wheel.
The TCU Software has been remapped by NineMeister. This was the biggest difference to the PDK. They increase clutch line pressure and reduce slip. They remove the Torque Limits and the shift speed from the paddles.
Finally fitted a Powerflex Gearbox Mount insert and I run 993RS Engine Mounts to remove any flex, and now the shifts are positive and the 'thud' in the back you get with the standard car is now gone
The PDK is now finally performing as I would expect. Lightning Fast Shifts, less slip, no thud, no clutch judder at slow speed maneuvering.
The oldest version of PDK gearbox and software (in a production car) is now 15 years old, and as you would expect is far away from today's cars.
Separately, as the car is 15 years old now, it has just had a full suspension refresh with new B4 PASM Dampers, Powerflex Purple Bushed Coffin Arms, TCAs, Top Mounts, Bump Stops and runs H&R springs, setup with a Fast-Road Geometry by Copse Automotive. (DSC Controller is also fitted, among other engine and exhaust mods). What prompted this refresh was the Coffin Arms creaking over bumps, knocking from Top Mounts, perished boots and a PASM connector that had been crushed somehow, putting the PASM into limp mode intermittently.
So, to summarize, am I still concerned about 8 previous owners? A little, but only if I want to sell the car, which I don't, as I now have exactly what I wanted. Its now an absolute pleasure to drive slow and at 10/10ths
Please book those test drives!
It has 8 previous owners also. This concerned me a little, but the condition of the car and Spec, and the solid Service History from Porsche West London overrode the Owners, so I bought the car. The car is fully loaded with PCCB, factory LSD, hardback Sport Seats, Black with Silver Lip Sport Design wheels, amongst more.
The 8 Owners actually was not the issue in the end. Please go and test drive a PDK and a Manual and judge for yourself!
When I first bought the car I was not convinced, but I do love a project. The car floated at the front on dual carriageways. The steering was very light at speed. It felt like the rear of the car was going to come round on you in fast sweeping corners. And the PDK........
Standard PDK - great for cruising on Auto Routes and in traffic. But was not a scratch on later PDK/DSG gearboxes and software (coming from a mk7.5 Golf R). It's slow to shift (even in Sport Plus) and there is a noticeable delay from the pulling the paddle to the actual shift occurring, especially at low to mid revs. At redline, that's where it is fast. From the Factory, it actually shifts more like a Torque Converter full auto, than a semi manual. Very smooth with quite a bit of clutch slip. The later Software update from Porsche made this even worse (smoothed out changes with clutch slip, less aggressive/positive shifting)
Now, after owning for three years -
To remedy the PDK, I've had to modify the car substantially, something I always knew I would do regardless of the PDK performance. As with all my previous cars, I enjoy modifying to improve.
I removed the Porsche Sport Design Paddle Steering Wheel as it has a PCB inside that checks that you are not attempting to downshift and upshift at the same time, causing a shift delay. It has been replaced with a Momo Mod7 Cup Wheel and Ive fitted MME Motorsport shifters mounted behind the wheel.
The TCU Software has been remapped by NineMeister. This was the biggest difference to the PDK. They increase clutch line pressure and reduce slip. They remove the Torque Limits and the shift speed from the paddles.
Finally fitted a Powerflex Gearbox Mount insert and I run 993RS Engine Mounts to remove any flex, and now the shifts are positive and the 'thud' in the back you get with the standard car is now gone
The PDK is now finally performing as I would expect. Lightning Fast Shifts, less slip, no thud, no clutch judder at slow speed maneuvering.
The oldest version of PDK gearbox and software (in a production car) is now 15 years old, and as you would expect is far away from today's cars.
Separately, as the car is 15 years old now, it has just had a full suspension refresh with new B4 PASM Dampers, Powerflex Purple Bushed Coffin Arms, TCAs, Top Mounts, Bump Stops and runs H&R springs, setup with a Fast-Road Geometry by Copse Automotive. (DSC Controller is also fitted, among other engine and exhaust mods). What prompted this refresh was the Coffin Arms creaking over bumps, knocking from Top Mounts, perished boots and a PASM connector that had been crushed somehow, putting the PASM into limp mode intermittently.
So, to summarize, am I still concerned about 8 previous owners? A little, but only if I want to sell the car, which I don't, as I now have exactly what I wanted. Its now an absolute pleasure to drive slow and at 10/10ths
Please book those test drives!
Ed.Neumann said:
Meyle and CTE.
But also have adjustable drop links on the front so could just be them. I had them apart around a month ago, so need to check. When I first fitted them the nearside came lose after a couple of weeks.
To be honest, now everything is new and the car is super quiet and tight, maybe if I hear the odd thing I start to think "Hmmm? what now?"
It is only going over the ridge on my driveway, that is sharp to keep the gravel in, that I hear it. And, because it was so sunny I had the windows open and the music off, so maybe it is not a problem.
The CTE stuff seems to pretty good, whereas Meyle's quality seems to be somewhat questionable these days.But also have adjustable drop links on the front so could just be them. I had them apart around a month ago, so need to check. When I first fitted them the nearside came lose after a couple of weeks.
To be honest, now everything is new and the car is super quiet and tight, maybe if I hear the odd thing I start to think "Hmmm? what now?"
It is only going over the ridge on my driveway, that is sharp to keep the gravel in, that I hear it. And, because it was so sunny I had the windows open and the music off, so maybe it is not a problem.
In my experience any adjustable ARB drop links will tend to be noisier (even if only by a tiny amount) than the OE items.
KittyLitter said:
Yeah, I saw that on Autotrader last night, still well out of my range. 99.9% sure it's the one I originally noted and IMO at least £5k overpriced. Look at what other Porsches (or other marques) you can get for £55k...veetwin said:
Please go and test drive a PDK and a Manual and judge for yourself!
I drove both back to back some years ago, and while I saw how good the PDK system is on track, I've always enjoyed the manual interaction more. For now, I've had a word with myself and will only be entertaining a manual car. The only exception to this would be a 991.2 GT3 RS (but that's never going to happen without a lottery win).Again, thanks all for the replies, some sound advice, which is exactly what I was after
My 997.1 gt3 had a similar number of owners before me. i didnt care as it was the spec i wanted and it had been well maintained throughout its life and was retailed by porsche who put their warranty on it.
some 4 years on and its not fallen apart
dont compromise on the spec especially if they are not that scarce. it will bug you especially when hte one you really want pops along the day after.
if i was you i would wait a bit more
some 4 years on and its not fallen apart
dont compromise on the spec especially if they are not that scarce. it will bug you especially when hte one you really want pops along the day after.
if i was you i would wait a bit more
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