Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 22]
Discussion
This is set to become one of those internet motoring legends like "The X-Type is just a Mondeo in a frock" when there was only partial truth to that.
The problem as far as I can make out is mainly with the timing chains on the 4 pot Ingenium diesels. And Jaguar is supposed to have fixed this from 2019 onwards. Six cylinder Ingenium engines don't appear to have the problem and as far as I can observe the petrol 4 pot Ingeniums aren't affected or at least nowhere near as much.
The trouble is, this is quite nuanced and it's much easier for the internet "know-it-alls" to declare that all Jaguar 2.0 engines will explode as soon as you turn the key.
The problem as far as I can make out is mainly with the timing chains on the 4 pot Ingenium diesels. And Jaguar is supposed to have fixed this from 2019 onwards. Six cylinder Ingenium engines don't appear to have the problem and as far as I can observe the petrol 4 pot Ingeniums aren't affected or at least nowhere near as much.
The trouble is, this is quite nuanced and it's much easier for the internet "know-it-alls" to declare that all Jaguar 2.0 engines will explode as soon as you turn the key.
Patrick Bateman said:
How so?
Main issue on the petrol V’s (those that have issues) can be timing chains but the injectors also fail. This washes the bore of the affected cylinder which means there is no oil to do its job in there.
In terms of the 6 cylinder being better than the 4 (less troublesome ‘better’, it hasn’t been out as long for the issues to come to light (particularly in Jag product, LR were a year or so ahead with the i6) but the only issues aren’t chain stretch.
The balance shaft bearings are incredibly common.
The petrol and diesel are the same block, just heads and associated ancillaries.
I still have direct access to multiple JLR diag and master tech’s and the early signs aren’t good.
As someone who spent a couple of years working on modern Jaguar products my advice remains “If you’re responsible for funding the maintenance/repairs, avoid an Ingenium engined vehicle”.
Edited by RUI488 on Tuesday 7th May 21:59
Crook said:
anotherswifty said:
Me, I think he would choose thread’s favourite L322. Perhaps a 5 touring (Alpina?), or less practical a 6 series convertible or XK (coupe more than rag top). Did he knock about in the typical antique dealers Volvo, or what would be perfect would be the XM estate from earlier.
He used to use the love interest’s Moggie soft top I think. Hence me suggesting the 1 series as it was a very unlikely and so completely likely choice.Good info. On a side barge note, I had forgotten/ didn’t know Volvo made a 265. Their entry into ‘exec’ was the 164, and various conversions to estates have been done. I found this article saying the only official factory 165 was Australian made from 2 knock down kits, so the factory ‘lost’ one.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/the-...
I like Ovlovs and my dad having a 145 in the day, it was of interest. I also saw on an Abba doco an estate ‘165’ driving in one of their vids (conversion or access to a prototype?).
I realise a Volvo isn’t peak thread but a wafter with no sporting pretensions and can pick up its skirts and cruise comfortably does for me.
n.b. You can find various vids/blogs of guys in Sweden putting later modular engine (I6 normally) in 164 bodies. Look smart, good Q cars and in a dark colour have that same Century/Crown vibe about them to me.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/the-...
I like Ovlovs and my dad having a 145 in the day, it was of interest. I also saw on an Abba doco an estate ‘165’ driving in one of their vids (conversion or access to a prototype?).
I realise a Volvo isn’t peak thread but a wafter with no sporting pretensions and can pick up its skirts and cruise comfortably does for me.
n.b. You can find various vids/blogs of guys in Sweden putting later modular engine (I6 normally) in 164 bodies. Look smart, good Q cars and in a dark colour have that same Century/Crown vibe about them to me.
anotherswifty said:
Good info. On a side barge note, I had forgotten/ didn’t know Volvo made a 265. Their entry into ‘exec’ was the 164, and various conversions to estates have been done. I found this article saying the only official factory 165 was Australian made from 2 knock down kits, so the factory ‘lost’ one.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/the-...
I like Ovlovs and my dad having a 145 in the day, it was of interest. I also saw on an Abba doco an estate ‘165’ driving in one of their vids (conversion or access to a prototype?).
I realise a Volvo isn’t peak thread but a wafter with no sporting pretensions and can pick up its skirts and cruise comfortably does for me.
n.b. You can find various vids/blogs of guys in Sweden putting later modular engine (I6 normally) in 164 bodies. Look smart, good Q cars and in a dark colour have that same Century/Crown vibe about them to me.
I had a 164, loved it, just a 'cooking' carb fed auto. The 'e' model with injection was @180hp from memory and was a great q car for its day. Had a 760gle with the same PRV V6 as the 260 and mine was a lovely old thing, one of the comfiest, woofliest things I've owned!! I loves a Volvo me!! https://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/the-...
I like Ovlovs and my dad having a 145 in the day, it was of interest. I also saw on an Abba doco an estate ‘165’ driving in one of their vids (conversion or access to a prototype?).
I realise a Volvo isn’t peak thread but a wafter with no sporting pretensions and can pick up its skirts and cruise comfortably does for me.
n.b. You can find various vids/blogs of guys in Sweden putting later modular engine (I6 normally) in 164 bodies. Look smart, good Q cars and in a dark colour have that same Century/Crown vibe about them to me.
Edit, thinking about it, it was a Datsun 1800 pick up he had, not the Mazda. PH, details matter!!!
Edited by biggbn on Wednesday 8th May 12:16
RUI488 said:
Main issue on the petrol V’s (those that have issues) can be timing chains but the injectors also fail.
This washes the bore of the affected cylinder which means there is no oil to do its job in there.
In terms of the 6 cylinder being better than the 4 (less troublesome ‘better’, it hasn’t been out as long for the issues to come to light (particularly in Jag product, LR were a year or so ahead with the i6) but the only issues aren’t chain stretch.
The balance shaft bearings are incredibly common.
The petrol and diesel are the same block, just heads and associated ancillaries.
I still have direct access to multiple JLR diag and master tech’s and the early signs aren’t good.
As someone who spent a couple of years working on modern Jaguar products my advice remains “If you’re responsible for funding the maintenance/repairs, avoid an Ingenium engined vehicle”.
I thought the V8's were meant to be pretty sound as far as performance engines go and timing chain issues reserved more for early 5 litre iterations.This washes the bore of the affected cylinder which means there is no oil to do its job in there.
In terms of the 6 cylinder being better than the 4 (less troublesome ‘better’, it hasn’t been out as long for the issues to come to light (particularly in Jag product, LR were a year or so ahead with the i6) but the only issues aren’t chain stretch.
The balance shaft bearings are incredibly common.
The petrol and diesel are the same block, just heads and associated ancillaries.
I still have direct access to multiple JLR diag and master tech’s and the early signs aren’t good.
As someone who spent a couple of years working on modern Jaguar products my advice remains “If you’re responsible for funding the maintenance/repairs, avoid an Ingenium engined vehicle”.
Edited by RUI488 on Tuesday 7th May 21:59
Patrick Bateman said:
I thought the V8's were meant to be pretty sound as far as performance engines go and timing chain issues reserved more for early 5 litre iterations.
Same Bosch injectors everything uses so I can't imagine it's any more or less given to them sticking open than anything else. Timing chain "stretch" is actually wear of the pin holes in the chain by soot too fine to be filtered in the oil caused by Direct Injection, it's a well understood issue and new oil formulations have additives to encourage soot clumping, which is one of the reasons to make sure you use an oil that meets the latest standards rather than just worrying about getting the right viscosity. Older DI engines were more likely to suffer than this because it was less understood and mitigated for, and long oil change intervals obviously don't help.
There are well repeated reports of tensioner issues on the JLR V8 but I'm really not sure how common this is in reality. I have two of these engines and I'm not too concerned because my experience of timing chain tensioner issues suggest you get plenty of notice if you've the slightest mechanical sympathy, they usually make a racket before they actually jump teeth.
There are obviously other things that can go wrong - VVC units sometimes seem to need replacement, supercharger couplers wear, and the water pump appears to be a weak spot (again usually plenty of warning if you pay some attention to your car) but I think on balance they're as durable and reliable as any European 500bhp+ engine and much more so than many.
I think we take a little for granted now how much goes into an engine to delver 500-600bhp, be as docile to drive as a Fiesta, run on 95 RON petrol, run to 150,000 miles or more, and cost less to service than the V8 engines with half the power of 30 years ago. The 5.0 supercharged engine is delivering as much or more power than a Ferrari F50, Jaguar XJ220, or a quad turbo Bugatti EB110 so if you need to chuck £3k of timing gear at it every 120,000 miles I think you're doing ok.
I wouldn't touch an ingenium with six barge poles secured end to end though. I must see twenty broken ones go through BCA for every one that runs right, and they're very disproportionately represented in the non runners. Maybe the new ones are better, but the design of the engine looks to have focussed on low weight (and cost) and efficiency in preference to durability and serviceability; the timing chain looks like something on a push bike and it's at the back of the engine like so much of the throwaway tat now.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Wednesday 8th May 13:58
If you have a wet weekend to spare, this thread makes interesting reading from start to current position on the Ingenium topic.....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Bought dad a car.
Dad was ungrateful and having a go at me for "pissing off without saying anything".
Dads missing out.
ANYWAY, enough with the life story, here it is. A cross between shed and compact-barge-spec.
A 2005 Ford Focus 1.6 Ti-VCT Ghia saloon in Jeans Blue. Local dealers launch demo plus 3 owners from the same family, latterly owned by a retired Ford Master tech. 69,000 miles. Some nice options such as upgraded wheels, adaptive headlamps, CD autochanger and fake wood! An honest, beautiful car for a grand.
Dad was ungrateful and having a go at me for "pissing off without saying anything".
Dads missing out.
ANYWAY, enough with the life story, here it is. A cross between shed and compact-barge-spec.
A 2005 Ford Focus 1.6 Ti-VCT Ghia saloon in Jeans Blue. Local dealers launch demo plus 3 owners from the same family, latterly owned by a retired Ford Master tech. 69,000 miles. Some nice options such as upgraded wheels, adaptive headlamps, CD autochanger and fake wood! An honest, beautiful car for a grand.
BenS94 said:
Bought dad a car.
Dad was ungrateful and having a go at me for "pissing off without saying anything".
Dads missing out.
ANYWAY, enough with the life story, here it is. A cross between shed and compact-barge-spec.
A 2005 Ford Focus 1.6 Ti-VCT Ghia saloon in Jeans Blue. Local dealers launch demo plus 3 owners from the same family, latterly owned by a retired Ford Master tech. 69,000 miles. Some nice options such as upgraded wheels, adaptive headlamps, CD autochanger and fake wood! An honest, beautiful car for a grand.
Well bought, that's for nothing man. Dad was ungrateful and having a go at me for "pissing off without saying anything".
Dads missing out.
ANYWAY, enough with the life story, here it is. A cross between shed and compact-barge-spec.
A 2005 Ford Focus 1.6 Ti-VCT Ghia saloon in Jeans Blue. Local dealers launch demo plus 3 owners from the same family, latterly owned by a retired Ford Master tech. 69,000 miles. Some nice options such as upgraded wheels, adaptive headlamps, CD autochanger and fake wood! An honest, beautiful car for a grand.
biggbn said:
BenS94 said:
Bought dad a car.
Dad was ungrateful and having a go at me for "pissing off without saying anything".
Dads missing out.
ANYWAY, enough with the life story, here it is. A cross between shed and compact-barge-spec.
A 2005 Ford Focus 1.6 Ti-VCT Ghia saloon in Jeans Blue. Local dealers launch demo plus 3 owners from the same family, latterly owned by a retired Ford Master tech. 69,000 miles. Some nice options such as upgraded wheels, adaptive headlamps, CD autochanger and fake wood! An honest, beautiful car for a grand.
Well bought, that's for nothing man. Dad was ungrateful and having a go at me for "pissing off without saying anything".
Dads missing out.
ANYWAY, enough with the life story, here it is. A cross between shed and compact-barge-spec.
A 2005 Ford Focus 1.6 Ti-VCT Ghia saloon in Jeans Blue. Local dealers launch demo plus 3 owners from the same family, latterly owned by a retired Ford Master tech. 69,000 miles. Some nice options such as upgraded wheels, adaptive headlamps, CD autochanger and fake wood! An honest, beautiful car for a grand.
Needs a map, travelling rug, and a metal AA badge though.
Would be well received on the 0-5 classics thread.
Crook said:
My God man!! You’ll be saying that Belmonts were acceptable next!
We had a Belmont as well!! Haha. Replaced his 1.6 Maestro with an ‘Astra with a boot’.
Then he went through his Rover phase.
It was a 420 wedge, 416 estate after that, then 416 hatch, then 45 hatch, and then (i think) an E39 520i.
That was just the main family cars from late 80’s to early 00’s. There were always 5+ cars at any one time.
Usually more.
There were usually two mins, and usually two classics (mainly Jags) as well.
Those were the days!
macron said:
Fab colour but it is not a 1998 MY (imported it says FWIW). 
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