2024: BTCC chat & discussion
Discussion
GlobalRacer said:
That's just modern "journalism" I think. BTCC doesn't start at Brands Hatch on that date it's Donington and Nic has already stated that he's not racing in the BTCC this year.
Ah ok, I hadn't seen that. Yeah that's pretty poor journalism then, but what can you expect from the sun.I’m just sat in the pub in Leicester not too far from team Parker racings hq.. I’ve just seen 2 of their race transporters go by heading towards the motorway end of the town.. are they Donington bound?? I’m 5 pints in and up for a ludicrous local rumour!! 🤣😂🤣 #giosback #platosback #anyrumours
No Bobby Thompson on the entry list, hopefully he can get a last minute deal together. Grid looks quality, but it does look quite sparse unfortunately, shame there's no Civic Type R's, surprised nobody with a lower budget is running them as they are race winning cars, although older now. Must be many years since there wasn't a Honda on the grid.
So much doom and gloom on the socials. This is a quality field this year and more than enough cars for some great racing. With no disrespect to some drivers when we had higher grid numbers most of the rear of the grid weren't really noticeable anyway to the TV audience.
I really think some of the social media commenters have been living under rocks or they think motorsport is immune from all the price rises and other economic woes.
I hope ITV do a piece when the season starts on how the costs in the BTCC break down. So many seem to think that hybrid is half the budget or something.
I really think some of the social media commenters have been living under rocks or they think motorsport is immune from all the price rises and other economic woes.
I hope ITV do a piece when the season starts on how the costs in the BTCC break down. So many seem to think that hybrid is half the budget or something.
GlobalRacer said:
So much doom and gloom on the socials. This is a quality field this year and more than enough cars for some great racing. With no disrespect to some drivers when we had higher grid numbers most of the rear of the grid weren't really noticeable anyway to the TV audience.
I really think some of the social media commenters have been living under rocks or they think motorsport is immune from all the price rises and other economic woes.
I hope ITV do a piece when the season starts on how the costs in the BTCC break down. So many seem to think that hybrid is half the budget or something.
Not a chance ITV will do something as in depth as that, even before faking into account that not every seat in the gris costs the same.I really think some of the social media commenters have been living under rocks or they think motorsport is immune from all the price rises and other economic woes.
I hope ITV do a piece when the season starts on how the costs in the BTCC break down. So many seem to think that hybrid is half the budget or something.
DanielSan said:
Not a chance ITV will do something as in depth as that, even before faking into account that not every seat in the gris costs the same.
Don't see why not. Alan Gow has covered some costs in interviews. Not many people (myself included) realised that the entry fees for the season cost more than the hybrid system lease for example. Just about every comment you read on socials bemoaning the number of cars on the grid puts the blame 100% on the "massive" cost of the hybrid system.GlobalRacer said:
DanielSan said:
Not a chance ITV will do something as in depth as that, even before faking into account that not every seat in the gris costs the same.
Don't see why not. Alan Gow has covered some costs in interviews. Not many people (myself included) realised that the entry fees for the season cost more than the hybrid system lease for example. Just about every comment you read on socials bemoaning the number of cars on the grid puts the blame 100% on the "massive" cost of the hybrid system.I think it’s fair to say the general public have little to no understanding of the costs of motorsport, but just like everything else on social media, no understanding isn’t a barrier to relentlessly expressing a cast iron opinion.
[Edit cause the original was maybe a bit harsh]
Edited by emicen on Wednesday 17th April 20:49
Apes or not it’s the same 50-100k cost on the car whether you’ve got a big sponsor bankrolling your car or you’re scraping together the cash.
Frankly even if you’ve got plenty of cash and do it because you want to it’s 50-100k you’d rather spend on something else
Either way budgets had been creeping up for a good while and the step increase in non-negotiable/duck-and-divable cost probably tipped a lot of people over the edge
Frankly even if you’ve got plenty of cash and do it because you want to it’s 50-100k you’d rather spend on something else
Either way budgets had been creeping up for a good while and the step increase in non-negotiable/duck-and-divable cost probably tipped a lot of people over the edge
The Wookie said:
Apes or not it’s the same 50-100k cost on the car whether you’ve got a big sponsor bankrolling your car or you’re scraping together the cash.
Frankly even if you’ve got plenty of cash and do it because you want to it’s 50-100k you’d rather spend on something else
Either way budgets had been creeping up for a good while and the step increase in non-negotiable/duck-and-divable cost probably tipped a lot of people over the edge
True, probably a bit harsh on my part.Frankly even if you’ve got plenty of cash and do it because you want to it’s 50-100k you’d rather spend on something else
Either way budgets had been creeping up for a good while and the step increase in non-negotiable/duck-and-divable cost probably tipped a lot of people over the edge
Interesting point on the duck and dive element.
increasingly even at true club level it’s pretty hard to think of a series which would be on a driver’s motorsport career path that a dad & lad could realistically take a run at and stand a chance against teams.
Challenging time across the patch, clubs are struggling at all levels for numbers on the grids. The answer always comes back that racing needs to be made cheaper, but how is the tricky part.
For me, I’d have like me to see them create a Dunlop Super2 style situation where retired NGTC cars could run a reduced calendar alongside the main act. Feels like there’s a missing stepping stone to get from something like MINI JCWs in to BTCC, it’s a big old jump.
emicen said:
Challenging time across the patch, clubs are struggling at all levels for numbers on the grids. The answer always comes back that racing needs to be made cheaper, but how is the tricky part.
It’s a big problem, I can remember when I raced Caterham C400 superlights in 2008, they introduced a few upgrades and the grid thinned out because of the extra costMy budget for arrive and drive using my own car run by a half decent team was 17k.
These days the equivalent cars are still simpler but I’m told you can blow over 100k on a season by the time you’ve refreshed the engine every few rounds and swapped the diff out every session. Insane.
In C400s the cost increases pushed people upwards and downwards, some went back into the lower series, others like me went for progression and better value for money, even if it was more money.
I think it’s still the same to an extent, there’s some cracking cheap racing (I do the odd EnduroKa race with my mates and it’s great fun) and there’s some great National level racing that isn’t a big step up from higher club racing.
At the end of the day, if you’re spending 60-100k on something like a Porsche Club drive you could be looking at either a chunk of of cash in the bank and something like a Boxster Cup drive to be in a similar car or row the boat out a bit more and get into a spanking Cayman GT4
To me it feels like we’re in a similar place to a year or two before I started in BTCC, although it could just be because that’s where I actually am
The Wookie said:
It’s a big problem, I can remember when I raced Caterham C400 superlights in 2008, they introduced a few upgrades and the grid thinned out because of the extra cost
My budget for arrive and drive using my own car run by a half decent team was 17k.
These days the equivalent cars are still simpler but I’m told you can blow over 100k on a season by the time you’ve refreshed the engine every few rounds and swapped the diff out every session. Insane.
In C400s the cost increases pushed people upwards and downwards, some went back into the lower series, others like me went for progression and better value for money, even if it was more money.
I think it’s still the same to an extent, there’s some cracking cheap racing (I do the odd EnduroKa race with my mates and it’s great fun) and there’s some great National level racing that isn’t a big step up from higher club racing.
At the end of the day, if you’re spending 60-100k on something like a Porsche Club drive you could be looking at either a chunk of of cash in the bank and something like a Boxster Cup drive to be in a similar car or row the boat out a bit more and get into a spanking Cayman GT4
To me it feels like we’re in a similar place to a year or two before I started in BTCC, although it could just be because that’s where I actually am
Motorsport has got stupid expensive, but then so have most things, a pro team needs a workshop, trucks and good staff, all costs money.My budget for arrive and drive using my own car run by a half decent team was 17k.
These days the equivalent cars are still simpler but I’m told you can blow over 100k on a season by the time you’ve refreshed the engine every few rounds and swapped the diff out every session. Insane.
In C400s the cost increases pushed people upwards and downwards, some went back into the lower series, others like me went for progression and better value for money, even if it was more money.
I think it’s still the same to an extent, there’s some cracking cheap racing (I do the odd EnduroKa race with my mates and it’s great fun) and there’s some great National level racing that isn’t a big step up from higher club racing.
At the end of the day, if you’re spending 60-100k on something like a Porsche Club drive you could be looking at either a chunk of of cash in the bank and something like a Boxster Cup drive to be in a similar car or row the boat out a bit more and get into a spanking Cayman GT4
To me it feels like we’re in a similar place to a year or two before I started in BTCC, although it could just be because that’s where I actually am
I worked with you Wookie a few years ago in ginettas, now work for a factory wec team, as i did part time back then, you should see the money they are spending, its not far off F1 money
Free tyre choice for every race, apart from the use of hards only at Thruxton... race strategies will then come into play.
So... a new quali format, hybrid deployments & tyre strategies...
(And hopefully... sorted out the ride height roller issues).
Should be interesting.
So... a new quali format, hybrid deployments & tyre strategies...
(And hopefully... sorted out the ride height roller issues).
Should be interesting.
Edited by Milkyway on Thursday 18th April 09:02
The Wookie said:
Apes or not it’s the same 50-100k cost on the car whether you’ve got a big sponsor bankrolling your car or you’re scraping together the cash.
Frankly even if you’ve got plenty of cash and do it because you want to it’s 50-100k you’d rather spend on something else
Either way budgets had been creeping up for a good while and the step increase in non-negotiable/duck-and-divable cost probably tipped a lot of people over the edge
can you explain to a layman what a 'non negotiable/duck and divable' cost is? Is it something like - you have to take 125 sponsor packages per race, even if you have no sponsors, or is it something technical about the cars?Frankly even if you’ve got plenty of cash and do it because you want to it’s 50-100k you’d rather spend on something else
Either way budgets had been creeping up for a good while and the step increase in non-negotiable/duck-and-divable cost probably tipped a lot of people over the edge
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
can you explain to a layman what a 'non negotiable/duck and divable' cost is? Is it something like - you have to take 125 sponsor packages per race, even if you have no sponsors, or is it something technical about the cars?
I believe he was suggesting it was a fixed cost item that there was no cheaper alternative (ie. you can duck'n'dive/wheeler-deal things like a used car and other parts or borrow a truck or pit gear to run on a lower budget)Non-negotiables would be things like:
Championship registration fee
Entry fee
Hybrid rental
Duck & Diveables would be the costs you can push your luck with a bit or do benefit in kind sort of deals to alleviate.
- Do you really need to use that many tyres
- Pushing the lifing on components to life+X%
- Got a few mates who can help spanner / wash wheels / drive a truck / help with hospitality
- Do a deal with a graphics company to do the wrapping for free in exchange for some hospitality
Championship registration fee
Entry fee
Hybrid rental
Duck & Diveables would be the costs you can push your luck with a bit or do benefit in kind sort of deals to alleviate.
- Do you really need to use that many tyres
- Pushing the lifing on components to life+X%
- Got a few mates who can help spanner / wash wheels / drive a truck / help with hospitality
- Do a deal with a graphics company to do the wrapping for free in exchange for some hospitality
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
can you explain to a layman what a 'non negotiable/duck and divable' cost is? Is it something like - you have to take 125 sponsor packages per race, even if you have no sponsors, or is it something technical about the cars?
Running components beyond their design life, running consumables to the point where there is a performance deficit (eg tyres/brakes/clutch), having volunteers rather than professional mechanics, bodging/repairing damage rather than replacing parts, buying end-of-life or lightly damaged second hand bits from top end teams rather than buying new, not doing any development on the car, ropey old trucks with no O-license, not doing any pre-season testing, even things like blagging workshop space or sharing with another business rather than having a dedicated workshopAs said, things like entry fees, engine lease, hybrid lease, minimum amount of race fuel and tyres are all fixed, unavoidable costs
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