Health and Safety, how's your H&S game?
Discussion
Driver101 said:
hammo19 said:
H&S was something added on top of common sense to make money and annoy humans.
In the 80s into the 90s 500-600 workers were killed each year. Into the 00s there was still around 250 people killed per year. Last year there was 135 people killed. I still see far too many incidents to this day. I wouldn't want to return to the standards when I was young. Serious incidents were far too common.
As I said earlier I did some temporary work for a small brewery, I was utterly stunned at some of the things they were doing. I did make numerous suggestions and added lots to their h&s policy, if they have improved or not, I don't know. Highlights included being issued with no ppe, and given no formal training, being expected to lift 60kg+ barrels single handed on and off a van, barrel cleaning equipment with no guards or safety measures and being asked to crawl inside a large tank to clean it with chemicals. I think they had just always done these things and because no-one had been killed that was ok.
I am glad many things have improved but there is still a way to go.
Alpacaman said:
Driver101 said:
hammo19 said:
H&S was something added on top of common sense to make money and annoy humans.
In the 80s into the 90s 500-600 workers were killed each year. Into the 00s there was still around 250 people killed per year. Last year there was 135 people killed. I still see far too many incidents to this day. I wouldn't want to return to the standards when I was young. Serious incidents were far too common.
As I said earlier I did some temporary work for a small brewery, I was utterly stunned at some of the things they were doing. I did make numerous suggestions and added lots to their h&s policy, if they have improved or not, I don't know. Highlights included being issued with no ppe, and given no formal training, being expected to lift 60kg+ barrels single handed on and off a van, barrel cleaning equipment with no guards or safety measures and being asked to crawl inside a large tank to clean it with chemicals. I think they had just always done these things and because no-one had been killed that was ok.
I am glad many things have improved but there is still a way to go.
There is still too many companies out there run with old fashioned views. They don't adhere to the minimum requirements and put their workers at significant risk. They cover up serious incidents that should be reported.
Thread resurrection.
I’m working as a H&S lead manager on a very large construction project in the UK.
Just been over ruled by a director without discussion as they wanted to get something done and they didn’t want to wait for 2 hours. They wanted to just get on with it.
s
tty attitudes to H&S are still out there.
I’m working as a H&S lead manager on a very large construction project in the UK.
Just been over ruled by a director without discussion as they wanted to get something done and they didn’t want to wait for 2 hours. They wanted to just get on with it.
s
tty attitudes to H&S are still out there. lrdisco said:
Thread resurrection.
I’m working as a H&S lead manager on a very large construction project in the UK.
Just been over ruled by a director without discussion as they wanted to get something done and they didn’t want to wait for 2 hours. They wanted to just get on with it.
stty attitudes to H&S are still out there.
They are and it’s frustrating when it happens. All we can do is step back and give our advice sometimes. If something does go wrong it’s the managers and leaders the HSE want to speak with. I’m working as a H&S lead manager on a very large construction project in the UK.
Just been over ruled by a director without discussion as they wanted to get something done and they didn’t want to wait for 2 hours. They wanted to just get on with it.
s
tty attitudes to H&S are still out there. hammo19 said:
H&S was something added on top of common sense to make money and annoy humans.
After 40 years in heavy industry, I can assure you it isn't.Yes, some make money and annoy the f
k out of usbut the standards now are leagues ahead of where they were when I started work. Yes, sometimes I think, I used to shin up that ducting to get to that valve or walk across the 100Te crane beam 200ft in the air with no fall protection or even railings, and its frustrating.
But where I work, its safer.
My dad was involved in H&S and used to get the HSE newsletter which was compelling reading as a bored teenager... some of the stories of just plain stupidity by companies in the 80's... lack of training, poor supervision, no equipment, etc... leading to deaths or serious life changing injuries.
Our H&S specialist turned up on site 500miles from their base in an ENTxxxxxxE rental car with two bald front tyres.
"No they would never give me a car with bald tyres they knew I was driving a long way".
To answer the OPs question: Now in my 50s I'm way more cautious and hopefully instil that in the young 'uns too. It's about balance, common sense and managing risks.
I think I'm fairly sensible and pragmatic at the same time.
"No they would never give me a car with bald tyres they knew I was driving a long way".
To answer the OPs question: Now in my 50s I'm way more cautious and hopefully instil that in the young 'uns too. It's about balance, common sense and managing risks.
I think I'm fairly sensible and pragmatic at the same time.
Up until the start of Dec last year H&S for me was something the managers talked about and I just heard a drone in the ear.
Then I messed up while delivering metal to a site and 130kg metal bar hit my arm while falling of the side of my lorry.
Broke the arm in 3 places to the point I still have a month to go roughly before the arm is fully heeled.
Noone else on site at the time and I thought I could get said bar of lorry myself, Still managed to get lorry back to work in rush hour traffic using good arm to both steer and change the gears in rush hour traffic.
On plus side while off work the docs have found other things wrong with me that although fixable/curable will keep me off work for another good few months after that due to not being allowed to drive while on the morphine I now take to help with the pain in my throat I had been ignoring for the last 2 years.
Then I messed up while delivering metal to a site and 130kg metal bar hit my arm while falling of the side of my lorry.
Broke the arm in 3 places to the point I still have a month to go roughly before the arm is fully heeled.
Noone else on site at the time and I thought I could get said bar of lorry myself, Still managed to get lorry back to work in rush hour traffic using good arm to both steer and change the gears in rush hour traffic.
On plus side while off work the docs have found other things wrong with me that although fixable/curable will keep me off work for another good few months after that due to not being allowed to drive while on the morphine I now take to help with the pain in my throat I had been ignoring for the last 2 years.
vaud said:
My dad was involved in H&S and used to get the HSE newsletter which was compelling reading as a bored teenager... some of the stories of just plain stupidity by companies in the 80's... lack of training, poor supervision, no equipment, etc... leading to deaths or serious life changing injuries.
Oh i remember thoseBooklets describing amputation, electrocution and heads splitting like pumpkins.
Only exceeded by the videos they made us watch of radiation accidents and the irreversible putrification of living flesh.
Lovely.
For some reason, the current generation aren't subjected to the gruesome films anymore.
I remember one about explosive decompression in an adiabatic chamber. Shredded them to something unrecognisable as human
Gary C said:
vaud said:
My dad was involved in H&S and used to get the HSE newsletter which was compelling reading as a bored teenager... some of the stories of just plain stupidity by companies in the 80's... lack of training, poor supervision, no equipment, etc... leading to deaths or serious life changing injuries.
Oh i remember thoseBooklets describing amputation, electrocution and heads splitting like pumpkins.
Only exceeded by the videos they made us watch of radiation accidents and the irreversible putrification of living flesh.
Lovely.
For some reason, the current generation aren't subjected to the gruesome films anymore.
I remember one about explosive decompression in an adiabatic chamber. Shredded them to something unrecognisable as human
I did a course, from work, years ago to qualify as a Radiation Protection Supervisor.
Some of the photos/videos shown were quite horrific.
Top tip - never steal radioactive material from your place of work by placing it in your front trouser pocket.
When i worked in industry (90s) we would have production kit sent to us from HQ in USA.
It was often unusable as we couldn’t get it up to UK standards.
One notable was a machine used in label printing (100,000 labels needed for batches of vials) this split a huge roll of 10 labels into 10 individual reels at high speed using razor blades. The Americans would adjust this on the fly by sticking their hands into area with the spinning blades!
Our engineering guys had to fit loads of physical guards, safety interlocks, sensors etc.
Yanks when they visited complained about delays to getting the machine up and running. I remember getting a bking from them and my boss just not standing up for me at all, despite him and rest senior management team agreeing it was too unsafe to use.
One of those turning points in your life - I’ve always stuck up for teams working for me since then or taken blame on my shoulders in front of senior mgmt or clients.
Some of the photos/videos shown were quite horrific.
Top tip - never steal radioactive material from your place of work by placing it in your front trouser pocket.
When i worked in industry (90s) we would have production kit sent to us from HQ in USA.
It was often unusable as we couldn’t get it up to UK standards.
One notable was a machine used in label printing (100,000 labels needed for batches of vials) this split a huge roll of 10 labels into 10 individual reels at high speed using razor blades. The Americans would adjust this on the fly by sticking their hands into area with the spinning blades!
Our engineering guys had to fit loads of physical guards, safety interlocks, sensors etc.
Yanks when they visited complained about delays to getting the machine up and running. I remember getting a b
king from them and my boss just not standing up for me at all, despite him and rest senior management team agreeing it was too unsafe to use.One of those turning points in your life - I’ve always stuck up for teams working for me since then or taken blame on my shoulders in front of senior mgmt or clients.
Edited by jdw100 on Monday 29th April 01:49
grumpy52 said:
Enough experience to know when the visiting H&S "expert" is talking bo**ocks !
Sent off with advice about sex and travel .
Best advice I ever received was from an old workshop foreman, don't put your fingers,toes or face where you wouldn't put your c*#k .
So don' t open any doors, turn on any lights, walk anywhere, use any tools, write anything down etc etc etc.Sent off with advice about sex and travel .
Best advice I ever received was from an old workshop foreman, don't put your fingers,toes or face where you wouldn't put your c*#k .
H&S irritates the hell out of me, but not as much as what you poeted.
jdw100 said:
I did a course, from work, years ago to qualify as a Radiation Protection Supervisor.
Some of the photos/videos shown were quite horrific.
Top tip - never steal radioactive material from your place of work by placing it in your front trouser pocket.
Yes, that one is horrible.Some of the photos/videos shown were quite horrific.
Top tip - never steal radioactive material from your place of work by placing it in your front trouser pocket.
Edited by jdw100 on Monday 29th April 01:49
The other is the Byford Dolphin.
Gary C said:
hammo19 said:
H&S was something added on top of common sense to make money and annoy humans.
After 40 years in heavy industry, I can assure you it isn't.Yes, some make money and annoy the f
k out of usbut the standards now are leagues ahead of where they were when I started work. Yes, sometimes I think, I used to shin up that ducting to get to that valve or walk across the 100Te crane beam 200ft in the air with no fall protection or even railings, and its frustrating.
But where I work, its safer.
Gary C said:
Oh i remember those
Booklets describing amputation, electrocution and heads splitting like pumpkins.
These were a monthly (or quarterly?) newsletter and had gems like "The employee had created access to clean the meat grinder using a makeshift ladder. On crossing the span the employee fell into the grinder. Other employees, unaware of his presence in the grinder started it, resulting in the loss of multiple limbs. The employer was found guilty and fined £4.50. Booklets describing amputation, electrocution and heads splitting like pumpkins.
vaud said:
Gary C said:
Oh i remember those
Booklets describing amputation, electrocution and heads splitting like pumpkins.
These were a monthly (or quarterly?) newsletter and had gems like "The employee had created access to clean the meat grinder using a makeshift ladder. On crossing the span the employee fell into the grinder. Other employees, unaware of his presence in the grinder started it, resulting in the loss of multiple limbs. The employer was found guilty and fined £4.50. Booklets describing amputation, electrocution and heads splitting like pumpkins.
I'm a project manager in a construction based industry, every job has a site / task specific risk assessment and method statement that's about 35 pages long. Every single task is outlined in a step by step way.
It's overkill, but injuries and deaths are so common in my industry, it's more to protect the company than the individual sadly. They won't read those 35 pages, they'll just sign the back page and crack on. They won't pay attention during the induction or the toolbox talks, but they always tend to regret it when they've dropped a piece of spiral duct onto their arm and the only thing keeping them alive is a tourniquet that I'm applying.
In my personal life I'm much, much more risk averse than my wife and family members / friends. I see them doing something stupid and want to say something but don't want to appear a knob. I just keep my lot safe and carry on, meanwhile my wife leaves my beautifully sharpened Japanese chef knife right next to the edge of the counter when my 3 year old is walking around.
It's overkill, but injuries and deaths are so common in my industry, it's more to protect the company than the individual sadly. They won't read those 35 pages, they'll just sign the back page and crack on. They won't pay attention during the induction or the toolbox talks, but they always tend to regret it when they've dropped a piece of spiral duct onto their arm and the only thing keeping them alive is a tourniquet that I'm applying.
In my personal life I'm much, much more risk averse than my wife and family members / friends. I see them doing something stupid and want to say something but don't want to appear a knob. I just keep my lot safe and carry on, meanwhile my wife leaves my beautifully sharpened Japanese chef knife right next to the edge of the counter when my 3 year old is walking around.
Seen two good ones in the last three days,
Saturday, I had a subwoofer that I stuck on eBay as I never use it, it sold pretty much instantly and the buyer was keen to collect ASAP.
He drove the 40 mins over as specified and turned up bang on time, pleasant chap, paid for the sub and we were chatting, and he said he is a truck driver, for a large company whose name you can rearrange from a type of cholesterol. He said he was messaging me whilst driving, which when I suggested that was a st idea and a Wharfedale subwoofer is not worth losing your job for, he said he was in the services, but did admit subsequent replies were whilst driving an articulated lorry ffs.
This morning, getting petrol at the local Tesco, a bloke walking round his van with a fag in his mouth ! Now the mobile phone thing has been largely debunked, the risk is probably fairly low but there are thousands of gallons of very volatile liquid around, people slosh it about, if nothing else maybe defer your smoke until having fuelled up ? Its not a good look.
There is this stupid mentality in certain jobs, building being one and a lot of "professional" drivers, the "Too cool for school" attitude to H and S, and by and large most get away with it, but probably worth paying attention and maybe, if nothing else avoiding losing income from injury, for all the ones that wing it and get away with it, casualty and mortuaries are full with those who didnt.
Saturday, I had a subwoofer that I stuck on eBay as I never use it, it sold pretty much instantly and the buyer was keen to collect ASAP.
He drove the 40 mins over as specified and turned up bang on time, pleasant chap, paid for the sub and we were chatting, and he said he is a truck driver, for a large company whose name you can rearrange from a type of cholesterol. He said he was messaging me whilst driving, which when I suggested that was a s
t idea and a Wharfedale subwoofer is not worth losing your job for, he said he was in the services, but did admit subsequent replies were whilst driving an articulated lorry ffs.This morning, getting petrol at the local Tesco, a bloke walking round his van with a fag in his mouth ! Now the mobile phone thing has been largely debunked, the risk is probably fairly low but there are thousands of gallons of very volatile liquid around, people slosh it about, if nothing else maybe defer your smoke until having fuelled up ? Its not a good look.
There is this stupid mentality in certain jobs, building being one and a lot of "professional" drivers, the "Too cool for school" attitude to H and S, and by and large most get away with it, but probably worth paying attention and maybe, if nothing else avoiding losing income from injury, for all the ones that wing it and get away with it, casualty and mortuaries are full with those who didnt.
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