Insurers, accidents & excessive costs
Discussion
There have been a few of these topics recently about owners having small bumps and insurance companies paying out lots of money for relatively minor accidents.
There's an article in the guardian today regarding this particular topic, seems like a lot of people are experiencing this over-inflation of repair costs.
‘It felt like a massive scam’: the minor prangs to cars that lead to huge charges
https://amp.theguardian.com/money/article/2024/may...
There's an article in the guardian today regarding this particular topic, seems like a lot of people are experiencing this over-inflation of repair costs.
‘It felt like a massive scam’: the minor prangs to cars that lead to huge charges
https://amp.theguardian.com/money/article/2024/may...
Opening line of "Want to know why your car insurance has doubled over the past 2 years?"
What a load of tosh. Its cheaper.
Claims are high because 'shock', expensive cars are expensive to repair, hire car costs and fraudulent personal injury claims of people thinking they're getting free money.
What a load of tosh. Its cheaper.
Claims are high because 'shock', expensive cars are expensive to repair, hire car costs and fraudulent personal injury claims of people thinking they're getting free money.
DaveH23 said:
Opening line of "Want to know why your car insurance has doubled over the past 2 years?"
What a load of tosh. Its cheaper.
Claims are high because 'shock', expensive cars are expensive to repair, hire car costs and fraudulent personal injury claims of people thinking they're getting free money.
Not for everyone it isn't. Mine doubled because I had a very minor accident last year. Slid into my garden wall at 3mph due to icy block paves being like an ice rink + rock hard run flat tyres - it didn't end well. I've since bought winter tyres, but anyway.....What a load of tosh. Its cheaper.
Claims are high because 'shock', expensive cars are expensive to repair, hire car costs and fraudulent personal injury claims of people thinking they're getting free money.
.....buckled wing and headlight replacement = £5500. Parts were £1600 for the LED headlamp and wing from the BMW dealer, so the labour and paint were utterly extortionate, so there is some truth in the OP's post.
That just proves my point. Expensive cars are expensive to repair.
Not necessarily the parts but the labour, diagnostics, paint etc take longer to repair thus cost more money.
I remember paying 99p for a replacement bulb not that long ago which took all of 5 mins to screw out the old one and in the new, I've only been driving 20 years so was maybe 10/15 years ago.
On a newer car these days that would likely be several hundred/thousands to replace the entire cluster at several hours labour.
If the damage was so minimal why did you claim on your insurance and not just pay to have it repaired substantially cheaper elsewhere?
Not necessarily the parts but the labour, diagnostics, paint etc take longer to repair thus cost more money.
I remember paying 99p for a replacement bulb not that long ago which took all of 5 mins to screw out the old one and in the new, I've only been driving 20 years so was maybe 10/15 years ago.
On a newer car these days that would likely be several hundred/thousands to replace the entire cluster at several hours labour.
If the damage was so minimal why did you claim on your insurance and not just pay to have it repaired substantially cheaper elsewhere?
rottenegg said:
DaveH23 said:
Opening line of "Want to know why your car insurance has doubled over the past 2 years?"
What a load of tosh. Its cheaper.
Claims are high because 'shock', expensive cars are expensive to repair, hire car costs and fraudulent personal injury claims of people thinking they're getting free money.
Not for everyone it isn't. Mine doubled because I had a very minor accident last year. Slid into my garden wall at 3mph due to icy block paves being like an ice rink + rock hard run flat tyres - it didn't end well. I've since bought winter tyres, but anyway.....What a load of tosh. Its cheaper.
Claims are high because 'shock', expensive cars are expensive to repair, hire car costs and fraudulent personal injury claims of people thinking they're getting free money.
.....buckled wing and headlight replacement = £5500. Parts were £1600 for the LED headlamp and wing from the BMW dealer, so the labour and paint were utterly extortionate, so there is some truth in the OP's post.
https://www.bodyshopmag.com/2023/news/research-rev...
It’s to the insurers advantage if claims costs are extortionate. If they make 25% margin on £1b they will incur a lot of scrutiny. If they make 5% on £5b they look like very reasonable chaps.
It’s a stinking cartel of vested interests, mutually inflated claims costs and hence mutually inflated prices.
It’s a stinking cartel of vested interests, mutually inflated claims costs and hence mutually inflated prices.
DaveH23 said:
That just proves my point. Expensive cars are expensive to repair.
Not necessarily the parts but the labour, diagnostics, paint etc take longer to repair thus cost more money.
I remember paying 99p for a replacement bulb not that long ago which took all of 5 mins to screw out the old one and in the new, I've only been driving 20 years so was maybe 10/15 years ago.
On a newer car these days that would likely be several hundred/thousands to replace the entire cluster at several hours labour.
If the damage was so minimal why did you claim on your insurance and not just pay to have it repaired substantially cheaper elsewhere?
My 2005 Suzuki Ignis had a broken brake light. I got a new one from the local garage for £2.99 but I didn't have a screwdriver with me so the guy came out and offered to unscrew it for me. Well since he was there, he changed the bulb and I gave him a fiver for a beer. He was pleased. This was 10 years ago.Not necessarily the parts but the labour, diagnostics, paint etc take longer to repair thus cost more money.
I remember paying 99p for a replacement bulb not that long ago which took all of 5 mins to screw out the old one and in the new, I've only been driving 20 years so was maybe 10/15 years ago.
On a newer car these days that would likely be several hundred/thousands to replace the entire cluster at several hours labour.
If the damage was so minimal why did you claim on your insurance and not just pay to have it repaired substantially cheaper elsewhere?
My ex partner took her 2016 Mercedes GLA220d for service and they do a courtesy car wash. Jet wash on panel gaps is not good. The LED brake light blew a few days later. Couldn't prove it was the dealer so paid for it to be fixed. They then said it could not be fixed and had to replace the whole light unit for £349.
fatjon said:
It’s to the insurers advantage if claims costs are extortionate. If they make 25% margin on £1b they will incur a lot of scrutiny. If they make 5% on £5b they look like very reasonable chaps.
It’s a stinking cartel of vested interests, mutually inflated claims costs and hence mutually inflated prices.
In a profitable year I doubt the Industry as a whole ever gets out of single digit nett profit percentages. It’s a stinking cartel of vested interests, mutually inflated claims costs and hence mutually inflated prices.
Which car Insurer has made 25% nett profit in the last 50 years in a single year though ?
It’s also not a cartel.
alscar said:
fatjon said:
It’s to the insurers advantage if claims costs are extortionate. If they make 25% margin on £1b they will incur a lot of scrutiny. If they make 5% on £5b they look like very reasonable chaps.
It’s a stinking cartel of vested interests, mutually inflated claims costs and hence mutually inflated prices.
In a profitable year I doubt the Industry as a whole ever gets out of single digit nett profit percentages. It’s a stinking cartel of vested interests, mutually inflated claims costs and hence mutually inflated prices.
Which car Insurer has made 25% nett profit in the last 50 years in a single year though ?
It’s also not a cartel.
leef44 said:
I understood that the financial model was that the premiums paid for the payouts. The money is made from holding the premiums. So premiums would vary based on the previous years' trend of payouts.
Underwriting results are expressed as nett loss ratios ie Gross premium less all commissions and expenses and then incurred claims which are a mixture of paid and then outstanding losses. Premiums are set at the beginning of each year and depending on the company usually after actuarial analysis and computer modelling.
The problem is when things happen that have not been adequately thought about.
When interest rates are high and stock market returns good , premiums held will naturally be able to attract capapp.
The Industry is cyclical and also market share driven.
When they get it right individually the nett loss ratios with everything combined will be in single digits.
If you have a £ billion turnover clearly single digits profit is still a decent amount but probably not outrageous or gouging territory.
rottenegg said:
DaveH23 said:
Opening line of "Want to know why your car insurance has doubled over the past 2 years?"
What a load of tosh. Its cheaper.
Claims are high because 'shock', expensive cars are expensive to repair, hire car costs and fraudulent personal injury claims of people thinking they're getting free money.
Not for everyone it isn't. Mine doubled because I had a very minor accident last year. Slid into my garden wall at 3mph due to icy block paves being like an ice rink + rock hard run flat tyres - it didn't end well. I've since bought winter tyres, but anyway.....What a load of tosh. Its cheaper.
Claims are high because 'shock', expensive cars are expensive to repair, hire car costs and fraudulent personal injury claims of people thinking they're getting free money.
.....buckled wing and headlight replacement = £5500. Parts were £1600 for the LED headlamp and wing from the BMW dealer, so the labour and paint were utterly extortionate, so there is some truth in the OP's post.
Recent experience of this with my older son's car.
Someone ran a give way line and hit the front nearside corner of his car at very low speed, probably no more than a few mph. Damage to his car was a broken headlight and scuffs on the bumper.
First idiotic thing that happened was the other driver trying to claim it was his fault, and then refusing to pay cash to sort it. Would have been easier and cheaper for everyone.
Then the insurers took the car and gave him a hire car. Took three weeks to decide they were going to write it off, then another three weeks to agree a reasonable payout. Then another week to give us a price to keep the car and receive a reduced payout. All the while incurring hire car costs and storage costs.
Eventually paid out £2200 and my lad kept the car. Car was bought for £2800 a year previously. Total cost to fix was £50 for a second hand headlight from eBay, and about 30 mins polishing the scuffs on the bumper.
The decision to write it off was because there were no OEM nearside headlights available anywhere. They refused to use second hand or non-OEM parts.
Just the car hire charges will have been more than we paid for the car originally. And the time they spent disputing the insurance payout amount cost more in hire car fees than the additional amount we were asking for.
Someone ran a give way line and hit the front nearside corner of his car at very low speed, probably no more than a few mph. Damage to his car was a broken headlight and scuffs on the bumper.
First idiotic thing that happened was the other driver trying to claim it was his fault, and then refusing to pay cash to sort it. Would have been easier and cheaper for everyone.
Then the insurers took the car and gave him a hire car. Took three weeks to decide they were going to write it off, then another three weeks to agree a reasonable payout. Then another week to give us a price to keep the car and receive a reduced payout. All the while incurring hire car costs and storage costs.
Eventually paid out £2200 and my lad kept the car. Car was bought for £2800 a year previously. Total cost to fix was £50 for a second hand headlight from eBay, and about 30 mins polishing the scuffs on the bumper.
The decision to write it off was because there were no OEM nearside headlights available anywhere. They refused to use second hand or non-OEM parts.
Just the car hire charges will have been more than we paid for the car originally. And the time they spent disputing the insurance payout amount cost more in hire car fees than the additional amount we were asking for.
It's not a new thing.
Back in 2009 someone slid into the back of my 1 Series at a roundabout and split the bumper cover. Luckily he was a work colleague with a company car so I decided to claim direct from their insurer, but the dozy admin woman wasn't keen so I went to an accident management company who handled it.
It only needed a new bumper cover painted and fitted, but took 5 days and the hire car cost more than the repair!
Back in 2009 someone slid into the back of my 1 Series at a roundabout and split the bumper cover. Luckily he was a work colleague with a company car so I decided to claim direct from their insurer, but the dozy admin woman wasn't keen so I went to an accident management company who handled it.
It only needed a new bumper cover painted and fitted, but took 5 days and the hire car cost more than the repair!
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