Teacher guilty of sex with two boys
Discussion
105.4 said:
Exactly. And that’s the point that I’ve been trying to make since my very first post. By my own admission, I’d have viewed the whole thing very differently if it were a 15 year old girl with a 28 year old male teacher.
Well, as I said, take the gender out of it and just say 28 year old has sex with a 15 year old.Doesn't sound good does it?
Simbu said:
This reinforces the point that using a position of trust to leverage a sexual relationship with a child, is rarely going to end well. T
Though it sometimes does. like the 15 year old boy who shagged his 40 year old teacher. Then married her a few years later. After which he became president of his country.BigMon said:
You are making a ludicrous argument, and seemingly admitting it's ludicrous too which is somewhat headscratching.
It matters not a jot whether any of us would have had sex with an older teacher or not. I dare say several of us would, I may have, but that just reinforces the fact a 15 year old isn't capable of adult judgment.
Put aside the daft argument about 'enjoying it', and put aside whether it's a boy or a girl. Ultimately an adult, in a position of trust and authority, had sex with kids.
It can never be right in any way, shape or form.
And I’m not saying that it is ‘right’.It matters not a jot whether any of us would have had sex with an older teacher or not. I dare say several of us would, I may have, but that just reinforces the fact a 15 year old isn't capable of adult judgment.
Put aside the daft argument about 'enjoying it', and put aside whether it's a boy or a girl. Ultimately an adult, in a position of trust and authority, had sex with kids.
It can never be right in any way, shape or form.
What I am saying is that there appears to have been an over-reaction to the level of which these lads were victims, which hypocritically is a much lower level of victimisation than if it were girls with a male teacher.
I often wonder how many of the regulars on NP&E manage to have a shave in the morning without having an argument with their own reflection.
I’ve made my point perfectly clear several times, and I’m starting to get a little weary of constantly repeating myself. Unfortunately I lack a good enough comprehension of the English language to explain my position in simpler terms that others would understand.
I will leave you all to it to battle it out as to who can be the most indignant with rage about all of this.
105.4 said:
Likewise, it is interesting, (enlightening?) to me how the dishonest and faux-pious cannot be truthful about what they would have done if they were one of these lads, whilst also admitting that their position would match my own and be hypocritically different if it were 15 year old girls with a 28 year old male teacher, (ie; an immediate hanging offence).
Nope. You're assuming everyone else is hiding their real thoughts. We're not. You're creepy, and it shows.Your position is up there with assuming a child dressed in clothing you find sexually suggestive is asking for for advances. They're not. They're not trying it on. They're just dressing like the people they see in the media.
Please, get yourself some help before you get yourself in a right mess.
Edited by Evanivitch on Sunday 19th May 08:32
BigMon said:
Well, as I said, take the gender out of it and just say 28 year old has sex with a 15 year old.
Doesn't sound good does it?
Oh FFS Doesn't sound good does it?
I’m not suggesting that any of this is good. I’ve made this clear since the beginning. What I am saying , and it is a point which you’ve just admitted to ignoring, is that this would have been perceived to have been worse if it was girls with a male teacher.
105.4 said:
Abused?
Yes. Abused. It was abuse. Abuse
Verb:
use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse.
Noun:
the improper use of something.
"alcohol abuse"
The boys were subject to sexual abuse by a predatory teacher. They were unable to give consent due to age and power and she was in a position of authority. It’s abuse.
105.4 said:
Oh FFS
I’m not suggesting that any of this is good. I’ve made this clear since the beginning. What I am saying , and it is a point which you’ve just admitted to ignoring, is that this would have been perceived to have been worse if it was girls with a male teacher.
You didn’t say perceived. Of course it would be perceived as worse, but that doesn’t make it worse. Again, this difference in the way we treat boys and girls is one of the reasons we have the issues we do. Unable to see boys as victims is one of the reasons we have such high levels of men in prison, sleeping rough, taking drugs and committing suicide. This is an extreme example, but it is pervasive through society, and the cause of so many issues we see today. It is exactly the same attitude that leads boys to be punished and girls to be comforted for disregulated behaviour (“acting up”) from a very young age.I’m not suggesting that any of this is good. I’ve made this clear since the beginning. What I am saying , and it is a point which you’ve just admitted to ignoring, is that this would have been perceived to have been worse if it was girls with a male teacher.
It’s awful and sad.
Edited by Electro1980 on Sunday 19th May 08:44
105.4 said:
And I’m not saying that it is ‘right’.
What I am saying is that there appears to have been an over-reaction to the level of which these lads were victims, which hypocritically is a much lower level of victimisation than if it were girls with a male teacher.
I often wonder how many of the regulars on NP&E manage to have a shave in the morning without having an argument with their own reflection.
I’ve made my point perfectly clear several times, and I’m starting to get a little weary of constantly repeating myself. Unfortunately I lack a good enough comprehension of the English language to explain my position in simpler terms that others would understand.
I will leave you all to it to battle it out as to who can be the most indignant with rage about all of this.
If you're arguing it's viewed differently if it's a young girl or boy and that this is hypocritical then yes I agree with you.What I am saying is that there appears to have been an over-reaction to the level of which these lads were victims, which hypocritically is a much lower level of victimisation than if it were girls with a male teacher.
I often wonder how many of the regulars on NP&E manage to have a shave in the morning without having an argument with their own reflection.
I’ve made my point perfectly clear several times, and I’m starting to get a little weary of constantly repeating myself. Unfortunately I lack a good enough comprehension of the English language to explain my position in simpler terms that others would understand.
I will leave you all to it to battle it out as to who can be the most indignant with rage about all of this.
It doesn't matter from a legal POV if we'd have all done it at 15 with an older teacher, whether the 15 year olds were loving it and it was consensual, or whether at school their peers viewed them as 'cock of the year'.
They were victims the same way a 15 year old girl would be who had a crush on a teacher, pursued him, and had fully consensual sex with him, and 'loved it', then was viewed with awe by her mates.
Forget about the gender, it's all about the age of the participants.
BikeBikeBIke said:
Nope. Nobody has said those issues would have *any* effect on the sentence or verdict whatsoever or anything remotely similar. In fact a lot of people have said the exact opposite. That's entirely come from you.
Maybe I've missed the post that suggests the enjoyment or otherwise of the lads might have any effect that you're taking the piss out of? Post a link to it so we can all see.
I'm taking the piss out of you and the other people trying to walk some weird line where on one side of it what she did was obviously completely wrong but on the other hand the kids she shagged were "lucky bMaybe I've missed the post that suggests the enjoyment or otherwise of the lads might have any effect that you're taking the piss out of? Post a link to it so we can all see.
ds" and it was like "like winning the lottery".This thread is a real eye opener. Some incredible posts. I am embarrassed and saddened that so many still don't understand what constitutes abuse. One poster claimed rape must be violent and forceful by its nature. These people might sit on a jury one day. Or might have kids themselves. This is the darkest day in my time on this sometimes divisive forum and it will be my last. Thanks for the wake up call.
biggbn said:
This thread is a real eye opener. Some incredible posts. I am embarrassed and saddened that so many still don't understand what constitutes abuse. One poster claimed rape must be violent and forceful by its nature. These people might sit on a jury one day. Or might have kids themselves. This is the darkest day in my time on this sometimes divisive forum and it will be my last. Thanks for the wake up call.
I wouldn't do anything hasty.I think in some cases it's genuine ignorance or a generational thing rather than malice.
There seems to be an increasing tendency, illustrated by many comments in this thread, to see a human-created and culturally specific definition, legal or otherwise, as actually creating a reality rather than describing or categorising it.
For most of humanity and most of history (at least a quarter of a million years), the transition from child to adult has hinged mainly on puberty and sexual maturity. Correspondingly the age of consent and the legal age at which you could get married has generally been lower than is now the norm, at least in rich industrialised countries.
Historically it may not have been the norm for 15 years old to marry (at least for boys) but it was also not unusual. By setting the age of consent at 16 it seems we now deem 15 year olds to be children much like a 5 year old and that some sort of transformation happens as they turn 16 (or later 18), rather than the number 16 being something that was chosen (and was different in the past and still different in other countries).
It is legal, as far as I know, for a 30 year old to have a sexual relationship with a 16 year old. Whether it is socially acceptable or advisable is a different question. So this topic has to be distinguished from other personal crimes such as violence, rape, murder, theft etc that are always wrong irrespective of the ages of those involved or circumstances.
I think personal feelings and memories is affecting some people’s judgement. I certainly lusted after one of our young German teachers and if I had thought the feelings would have been reciprocated I would have approached her. By coincidence I ended up marrying someone who became a German teacher.
There are very good reasons why teacher/pupil relationships should be prevented and the perpetrator in this case seems particularly culpable and should receive the appropriate sentence as foreseen by legislation (but taking her circumstances into consideration).
For most of humanity and most of history (at least a quarter of a million years), the transition from child to adult has hinged mainly on puberty and sexual maturity. Correspondingly the age of consent and the legal age at which you could get married has generally been lower than is now the norm, at least in rich industrialised countries.
Historically it may not have been the norm for 15 years old to marry (at least for boys) but it was also not unusual. By setting the age of consent at 16 it seems we now deem 15 year olds to be children much like a 5 year old and that some sort of transformation happens as they turn 16 (or later 18), rather than the number 16 being something that was chosen (and was different in the past and still different in other countries).
It is legal, as far as I know, for a 30 year old to have a sexual relationship with a 16 year old. Whether it is socially acceptable or advisable is a different question. So this topic has to be distinguished from other personal crimes such as violence, rape, murder, theft etc that are always wrong irrespective of the ages of those involved or circumstances.
I think personal feelings and memories is affecting some people’s judgement. I certainly lusted after one of our young German teachers and if I had thought the feelings would have been reciprocated I would have approached her. By coincidence I ended up marrying someone who became a German teacher.
There are very good reasons why teacher/pupil relationships should be prevented and the perpetrator in this case seems particularly culpable and should receive the appropriate sentence as foreseen by legislation (but taking her circumstances into consideration).
Internetexplorer said:
andyA700 said:
What do people think of the President Macron situation with his ex teacher, now wife. Should she be put in prison because he was "only" 15?
71 to 46 is quite the age difference, she was presumably a 40 y/o when he was 15?Oakey said:
Fermit said:
Right, I'm bowing out of the thread on this note. I am certainly not victim blaming, that's utter tosh. The word 'victim' was put in quotes, as none of us know if he were coerced by her, if he pursued he, or if he was a equal willing participant enjoying the action. Yes, she has committed a crime, as I've said numerous times, she's a wrong un.
This is the defense the 20yr old rapist tried to use after raping my sister. She was 12.Give your f
king head a wobbleking head a wobble.fourstardan said:
andyA700 said:
What do people think of the President Macron situation with his ex teacher, now wife. Should she be put in prison because he was "only" 15?
Acceptable for the French though, it's average behaviour compared to some of the films they've made.
andyA700 said:
fourstardan said:
andyA700 said:
What do people think of the President Macron situation with his ex teacher, now wife. Should she be put in prison because he was "only" 15?
Acceptable for the French though, it's average behaviour compared to some of the films they've made.andyA700 said:
Thanks for replying, the usual suspects on here don't want to answer my post.
I'm not sure if you mean now as some kind of historical offence or at the time?No idea of the laws in France around consent and abuse of power but it's creepy so if it anything illegal happened at the time I wouldn't have any issue it being dealt with by the law at the time.
Are you expecting people to say "Well it's Macron so it's fine" or something?
105.4 said:
Electro1980 said:
Caddyshack said:
Evanivitch said:
105.4 said:
Actually, I don’t.
I’d slept with women of a similar age to this teacher when I was 15. I certainly don’t feel like I was groomed by them.
But your faux-piousness does genuinely raise several moral conundrums.
If it was a 28 year old male teacher with a 15 year old girl, many would be up in arms, (hypocritically, myself included).
The law is the law, and should be applied equally to all, (although often isn’t).
There can’t be equality between men and women if women get a light touch or a free pass on certain things.
If I had a 15 year old son who was banging a reasonably decent looking 28 year old female teacher, I’d probably be high-fiving the lucky bd.
If this had happened to my daughter in a couple of years when she turned 15……well, I wouldn’t be phoning the Police and the end result wouldn’t be cinematic.
Yep, it’s a bit of a tricky one. Best add me to your list as seen as I’m not immediately indignant with faux rage.
Perhaps you don't understand the position of responsibility teachers are put in to protect children, and the obvious grooming through gifts that went on here.I’d slept with women of a similar age to this teacher when I was 15. I certainly don’t feel like I was groomed by them.
But your faux-piousness does genuinely raise several moral conundrums.
If it was a 28 year old male teacher with a 15 year old girl, many would be up in arms, (hypocritically, myself included).
The law is the law, and should be applied equally to all, (although often isn’t).
There can’t be equality between men and women if women get a light touch or a free pass on certain things.
If I had a 15 year old son who was banging a reasonably decent looking 28 year old female teacher, I’d probably be high-fiving the lucky b
d.If this had happened to my daughter in a couple of years when she turned 15……well, I wouldn’t be phoning the Police and the end result wouldn’t be cinematic.
Yep, it’s a bit of a tricky one. Best add me to your list as seen as I’m not immediately indignant with faux rage.
It's not quite drinking underage in the pub and being taken for a quick ride by the local mutton.
I think the above poster is not arguing that what she did was very wrong, it is just that the boys may not feel like victims.
We need to stop this BS that boys can’t be victims. This is why boys are having so many problems at the moment. Always seen as perpetrators and never as victims. They absolutely are victims here, of being manipulated and abused by someone with direct and very real power over them.
All I can think of with all the people claiming they would have thought it great at that age is this:
Whilst you may believe that this makes you virtuous, it comes across to me as insincere, dishonest, and lacking in the sort of moral grey areas that makes us all fallible and human.
There’s very few on here who are, I believe, being truly honest. The rest, as is often the case, are desperately clambering to shine their (false) beacon of righteousness. This does you, (and others), a disservice, as people never can be sure when you are being truly honest, or when you are just saying things that you think either makes you sound good, or saying things that you think others want to hear.
Only the gullible would fail to see through such a charade.
Let me ask you a question. Hopefully I will get a straight and an
honest answer.
If you were 15 again, and you had the opportunity to play hide the sausage multiple times with a female teacher that you fancied, would you have? If she had bought you shiny trinkets, would that have made you feel like a victim? Pessimistically, I’m not hopeful of an honest answer from you.
And before you enthusiastically clamber upon your high horse, this teacher has broken her position of trust, she has broken the law, and she deserves to be punished accordingly.
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