Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)
Discussion
911hope said:
bad company said:
911hope said:
EU represents a pretty large market to trade with.
What on earth made people think it was a good idea to make this harder?
The answer is in the question. The thinking part was missing. Those 17 million people simply believed and that just isn't good enough.
And we continue to go around the same circles.What on earth made people think it was a good idea to make this harder?
The answer is in the question. The thinking part was missing. Those 17 million people simply believed and that just isn't good enough.
Most including me voted out knowing that we’d be out of the EU trading market.
For me the price of remaining was becoming too much. Years ago I voted to remain in the Common Market and would do so again.
bad company said:
911hope said:
bad company said:
911hope said:
EU represents a pretty large market to trade with.
What on earth made people think it was a good idea to make this harder?
The answer is in the question. The thinking part was missing. Those 17 million people simply believed and that just isn't good enough.
And we continue to go around the same circles.What on earth made people think it was a good idea to make this harder?
The answer is in the question. The thinking part was missing. Those 17 million people simply believed and that just isn't good enough.
Most including me voted out knowing that we’d be out of the EU trading market.
For me the price of remaining was becoming too much. Years ago I voted to remain in the Common Market and would do so again.
bad company said:
I don’t agree that there’s ‘a huge downside to leaving’ though obviously trading with the EU countries has become more complicated.
For me the price of remaining was becoming too much. Years ago I voted to remain in the Common Market and would do so again.
And you honestly don't think the price of brexit has become too much?For me the price of remaining was becoming too much. Years ago I voted to remain in the Common Market and would do so again.
M.
Mrr T said:
Not going to look back that far. I was certainly against referendums. The first one under Cameron at al, had shown the UK politics and media could not even debate a change in the voting system.
I voted for Cameron but disagreed with that policy. I did think it might be forgotten or certainly delayed to the end of office. Not sure if I posted any thing on the subject. While I had always been aware of how the EU worked in FS at that time I was just starting to read up on the subject. Hats off to EUReferendum.com.
While I agree if remain had won there would not have been another vote but that would not have stopped UKIP taking Tory votes.
I think most of the parties try to benefit the country. That gets more votes. The fact is at the time only UKIP wanted out and where taking Tory votes. It's also possible for the next party in power to reverse a position, leaving is almost impossible to reverse because of the opt outs.
So you want to discuss the history of it, but only as far as it supports your view I voted for Cameron but disagreed with that policy. I did think it might be forgotten or certainly delayed to the end of office. Not sure if I posted any thing on the subject. While I had always been aware of how the EU worked in FS at that time I was just starting to read up on the subject. Hats off to EUReferendum.com.
While I agree if remain had won there would not have been another vote but that would not have stopped UKIP taking Tory votes.
I think most of the parties try to benefit the country. That gets more votes. The fact is at the time only UKIP wanted out and where taking Tory votes. It's also possible for the next party in power to reverse a position, leaving is almost impossible to reverse because of the opt outs.
Quite clearly it was not only UKIP who wanted out. If it was, the chances of a campaign to leave garnering 17m votes would have been zero.
You continue to have a hugely head in sand attitude to our relationship with the EU, and the way our political leaders handled it from the point Major took us into Maastricht.
The whole "you wouldn't understand" schtick was wearing thin. IMO Cameron was as much choosing the moment he did because he felt he could win. Arrogantly he and the Remain side assumed it was a shoe in and their approach was shockingly lazy and deaf.
Had they waited, with everything that has happened geopolitically since (Covid, Ukraine, immigration fiasco etc), I suspect the result would not have been remotely close. (And I do not mean Remain winning). 2016 was the opportunity to kill it dead and they (and many Remain supporters) f
ked it. The EU could and should be a fantastic thing, if it didn't want to over reach in a whole variety of ways.
Mrr T said:
Since I said neither Labour or Lib Dems had it in there manifestos it seems I have a good memory. So if any result had occurred other than a Tory victory there would have been no referendum. So all down to Cameron.
All down the people of the UK voting for the party offering the referendum, you yourself did that.Then it was down to Parliament to create the bill to hold the referendum, which they did on a huge majority.
Then it was down to the people of the UK who voted to leave the EU with a majority.
Then it was down to Parliament to trigger article 50 and create the legislation to leave the EU.
Then it was down to the people of the UK who kicked out of parliament those MP's who refused to carry out the promises they made to respect the referendum result.
Then it was down to the government to carry out that promise, which they did.
And yet here you are trying to blame one bloke, who ran away mid process.
You voted for the referendum, it's on you, just like it's on the majority of the electorate.
bad company said:
911hope said:
bad company said:
911hope said:
EU represents a pretty large market to trade with.
What on earth made people think it was a good idea to make this harder?
The answer is in the question. The thinking part was missing. Those 17 million people simply believed and that just isn't good enough.
And we continue to go around the same circles.What on earth made people think it was a good idea to make this harder?
The answer is in the question. The thinking part was missing. Those 17 million people simply believed and that just isn't good enough.
Most including me voted out knowing that we’d be out of the EU trading market.
For me the price of remaining was becoming too much. Years ago I voted to remain in the Common Market and would do so again.
bad company said:
We all have our opinions on whether Brexit was or wasn’t a good thing. I just get fed up with the condescending attitude that over 17 million leave voters were at best naive or thick as mince.
Maybe those Remoaners don’t believe in giving normal folk votes so might prefer living in say China or North Korea.
"I don't want to be told I'm doing something stupid when I'm doing something stupid"Maybe those Remoaners don’t believe in giving normal folk votes so might prefer living in say China or North Korea.
F1GTRUeno said:
"I don't want to be told I'm doing something stupid when I'm doing something stupid"
Voting for brexit wasn't stupid. Brexit did (and still could) present many opportunities.However, pretending it's all sunshine amd roses, and executed perfectly to plan, and not changing anything is in the best interests pf the UK, is unbelievably stupid.
M.
https://news.sky.com/story/4-7bn-spent-on-eu-borde...
More Brexit benefits!
"Traders are facing increased costs and more paperwork due to Brexit border controls, according to a new report from the independent public spending watchdog.
The government is estimated to have spent £4.7bn so far but some of that spending was not necessary, the National Audit Office (NAO) has said.
Despite the UK voting to leave the European Union in 2016 - and officially exiting in 2020 - many border control checks are yet to be implemented"
More Brexit benefits!
"Traders are facing increased costs and more paperwork due to Brexit border controls, according to a new report from the independent public spending watchdog.
The government is estimated to have spent £4.7bn so far but some of that spending was not necessary, the National Audit Office (NAO) has said.
Despite the UK voting to leave the European Union in 2016 - and officially exiting in 2020 - many border control checks are yet to be implemented"
Amateurish said:
https://news.sky.com/story/4-7bn-spent-on-eu-borde...
More Brexit benefits!
"Traders are facing increased costs and more paperwork due to Brexit border controls, according to a new report from the independent public spending watchdog.
The government is estimated to have spent £4.7bn so far but some of that spending was not necessary, the National Audit Office (NAO) has said.
Despite the UK voting to leave the European Union in 2016 - and officially exiting in 2020 - many border control checks are yet to be implemented"
And yet the EU border control checks were ready on the first day of official Bexit. Taking back control is going really well for the UK isn't it?More Brexit benefits!
"Traders are facing increased costs and more paperwork due to Brexit border controls, according to a new report from the independent public spending watchdog.
The government is estimated to have spent £4.7bn so far but some of that spending was not necessary, the National Audit Office (NAO) has said.
Despite the UK voting to leave the European Union in 2016 - and officially exiting in 2020 - many border control checks are yet to be implemented"
sunbeam alpine said:
And yet the EU border control checks were ready on the first day of official Bexit. Taking back control is going really well for the UK isn't it?
One of my reasons for voting for Brexit, hopefully a better civil service and government overall that will actually do their job rather than blaming the EU for all their own failures. I accept that it will take time to undo over 20 years of mediocrity.
Vanden Saab said:
One of my reasons for voting for Brexit, hopefully a better civil service and government overall that will actually do their job rather than blaming the EU for all their own failures.
I accept that it will take time to undo over 20 years of mediocrity.
I’m not sure I believe that based on everything that’s gone before, but the irony of our positions (if you’re to be believed) is that one of my main reasons for voting to stay was that I didn’t trust our government to make a successful transition, or to take advantage of whatever opportunities presented themselves. I accept that it will take time to undo over 20 years of mediocrity.
I know you’ll tell me it’s early days and it surely is, but so far I feel vindicated and I’m not happy to say that.
Blue62 said:
Vanden Saab said:
One of my reasons for voting for Brexit, hopefully a better civil service and government overall that will actually do their job rather than blaming the EU for all their own failures.
I accept that it will take time to undo over 20 years of mediocrity.
I’m not sure I believe that based on everything that’s gone before, but the irony of our positions (if you’re to be believed) is that one of my main reasons for voting to stay was that I didn’t trust our government to make a successful transition, or to take advantage of whatever opportunities presented themselves. I accept that it will take time to undo over 20 years of mediocrity.
I know you’ll tell me it’s early days and it surely is, but so far I feel vindicated and I’m not happy to say that.
Blue62 said:
I’m not sure I believe that based on everything that’s gone before, but the irony of our positions (if you’re to be believed) is that one of my main reasons for voting to stay was that I didn’t trust our government to make a successful transition, or to take advantage of whatever opportunities presented themselves.
I know you’ll tell me it’s early days and it surely is, but so far I feel vindicated and I’m not happy to say that.
You get the chance to vote for a government that will. It's not time limited.I know you’ll tell me it’s early days and it surely is, but so far I feel vindicated and I’m not happy to say that.
Of course you may feel that no UK govt ever will, and I can have some sympathy with that view given the last 30yrs. But I'd have had far more respect for that view if the people with it had simply said "screw it, we should be all in".
Patience is required. The next govt will be no better... Eventually we as an electorate may wake up to that and demand something better internally.
Murph7355 said:
Patience is required. The next govt will be no better... Eventually we as an electorate may wake up to that and demand something better internally.
And if it never gets better, we can rest assured it's not because it was a stupid thing to do, our government was just useless.Murph7355 said:
Mortarboard said:
....
However, pretending it's all sunshine amd roses, and executed perfectly to plan, and not changing anything is in the best interests pf the UK, is unbelievably stupid.
M.
Has anyone suggested that, on this thread or any other...? However, pretending it's all sunshine amd roses, and executed perfectly to plan, and not changing anything is in the best interests pf the UK, is unbelievably stupid.
M.
Absolutely no downsides, etc.
Even get laughed at for "fictioncasts" etc.
M.
Vanden Saab said:
One of my reasons for voting for Brexit, hopefully a better civil service and government overall that will actually do their job rather than blaming the EU for all their own failures.
I accept that it will take time to undo over 20 years of mediocrity.
Do you have any good reasons for voting for Brexit?I accept that it will take time to undo over 20 years of mediocrity.
911hope said:
Vanden Saab said:
One of my reasons for voting for Brexit, hopefully a better civil service and government overall that will actually do their job rather than blaming the EU for all their own failures.
I accept that it will take time to undo over 20 years of mediocrity.
Do you have any good reasons for voting for Brexit?I accept that it will take time to undo over 20 years of mediocrity.
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