CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)
Discussion
r3g said:
Elysium said:
You are not going to get debate anywhere if you characterise the people that disagree with you as “sucking on a crack pipe”.
Sadly I struggle to come up with a better characteration for people who still believe the obviously faked footage of Chinese people face-planting the ground was very real and "proof" of the highly deadly virus. The highly deadly virus that was nothing more than a few sniffles and so pathetic that you needed to do a PCR test and crank the cycles up to 40x amplification for it to even register 
.Because many did. Mostly elderly and vulnerable, but they still matter. People still cared about them.
There are important things to discuss here. The insanity of millions of tests per day being one of them. And I certainly don’t think we should have shut down the world to try and protect the vulnerable. But if you are intent on arguing that COVID was ‘just a sniffle’ for everyone then no one is going to take you seriously.
Elysium said:
r3g said:
Elysium said:
You are not going to get debate anywhere if you characterise the people that disagree with you as “sucking on a crack pipe”.
Sadly I struggle to come up with a better characteration for people who still believe the obviously faked footage of Chinese people face-planting the ground was very real and "proof" of the highly deadly virus. The highly deadly virus that was nothing more than a few sniffles and so pathetic that you needed to do a PCR test and crank the cycles up to 40x amplification for it to even register .Because many did. Mostly elderly and vulnerable, but they still matter. People still cared about them.
There are important things to discuss here. The insanity of millions of tests per day being one of them. And I certainly don’t think we should have shut down the world to try and protect the vulnerable. But if you are intent on arguing that COVID was ‘just a sniffle’ for everyone then no one is going to take you seriously.
Covid was more than the sniffles but for the vast majority it was no worse than flu. It's not a nice way to say it but governments world wide abandoned established plans, s
t the bed, delegated decisions to scientists and succumbed to group think.Surely the reality is, like many have stepped down from the "lock em up and jab everyone" to a more nuanced stance of "well, we all know all medication has side effects for some people", Covid, the flu, chicken and pox, etc is the same... Most are OK, but some will suffer and some will die.
At the start Chris Whitty said it was a mild disease for most people, and for most of it could managed with over the counter medicines. Note the use of most.
For every anecdote of someone with a vaccine injury, there'll be someone with a very serious after effect of covid.
What saddens me the most is that no one is ever willing to admit they were wrong. The jab everyone position denies any major issues with the vaccines, and any vaccine injury is just anecdotal... Similarly, this "death juice" position says it is just sniffles.
Whilst there's some shifting of the rhetoric, until people can be honest with themselves and some of the things they thought and said, I feel we'll just do exactly the same thing again.
I read this thread, and whilst there's insights, there's a lot of the same arguments, being argued the same way, again and again.
My call would be, look at the issues from others views, those that suffered, those that lost jobs, those that were scared witless and all the other possible feelings... Maybe you can see the world with a different set of of eyes.
At the start Chris Whitty said it was a mild disease for most people, and for most of it could managed with over the counter medicines. Note the use of most.
For every anecdote of someone with a vaccine injury, there'll be someone with a very serious after effect of covid.
What saddens me the most is that no one is ever willing to admit they were wrong. The jab everyone position denies any major issues with the vaccines, and any vaccine injury is just anecdotal... Similarly, this "death juice" position says it is just sniffles.
Whilst there's some shifting of the rhetoric, until people can be honest with themselves and some of the things they thought and said, I feel we'll just do exactly the same thing again.
I read this thread, and whilst there's insights, there's a lot of the same arguments, being argued the same way, again and again.
My call would be, look at the issues from others views, those that suffered, those that lost jobs, those that were scared witless and all the other possible feelings... Maybe you can see the world with a different set of of eyes.
The problem for a lot of people, myself included, was and is the disconnect between official figures presented in the most alarmist fashion and personal experience.
I can certainly see that perceptions vary depending on your lifestyle. For example, an old person frightened to leave their home and consuming a daily diet of Daily Mail and BBC could well have thought they were holed up in the middle of an apocalypse. For younger people, out and about as much as possible, in contact with a much wider circle of people and able to access information from many more sources, things looked different.
I have concluded two things. Firstly, that the actual death toll and risk were broadly similar to what happens periodically with a bad flu year or some other spike, Secondly, and there's no polite way to put this, the people in authority and responsible for sound leadership, collectively st the bed and succumbed to group think.
I get annoyed when my life experience is dismissed as anecdotal because I know that it's not based on one off encounters in hairdressers or what friends of friends or friends have told me. I'll list some of the things that have led me to my conclusions, some of which are not anecdotal.
1. Medics were not decimated by the virus. In fact medic mortality was typical throughout the pandemic. If the virus was so lethal and so contagious then you'd have expected mega mortality amongst medics yet it never happened.
2. Supermarkets were never closed due to high levels of sickness absence. On-line deliveries and operations with their massive infrastructure continued unaffected. Garden centres had no issues with staffing and staying open. These are operations where people were doing the opposite of isolating and should have been hotbeds of contamination and subsequent death and illness.
3. Supply chains were never affected unless you count toilet rolls and hand sanitiser.
4. Not a single person that I knew or knew of died of covid. Not one. My circle includes 'vulnerable people' including two with COPD. They all survived and are still alive.
5. I was closely involved with the care sector and none of the homes lost a single resident until they were forced to accept infected people discharged back from hospital. When infection spread, the maximum death toll in homes where residents have an average age of 90 was never above 5%. This in an environment where in a larger home residents are inevitably dying on a weekly basis. Average life expectancy remains around 83 in this country and residency before death on entering care is typically close to two years.
6. The vast majority of deaths that I learned about through the media which did not involve the very old or people with serious comorbidities were obese people.
7. Undertakers and crematoria were never close to being overwhelmed.
8. The temporary morgues and Nightingale hospitals were never used.
9. People I know working in the public sector thought, and still think, it was the best wheeze ever. Productivity fell to new lows, which it would do if you spent a large part of the day walking the (new) dog, fishing, gardening, decorating or watching TV.
10. Obituary pages didn't swell to multiple pages and stories of deaths were dominated by situations where my reaction could be typified by 'hardly surprising, they were obvious extremely unhealthy'.
11. The press love a tragedy involving young people. There were next to zero reports of promising footballers and triathletes succumbing to the virus.
12. Whenever I ask people who they knew personally who died from covid the answer is always the same - old and sick people.
13. Tradespeople and most self-employed who couldn't get any financial support seemed to have a unique immunity.
At the same time as I'm living this experience I'm getting daily death figures on the BBC. Not 'net' figures or numbers taking into account typical daily death rates, just figures coupled with alarmist press conferences, pictures of mass graves in South America and stories of Chinese people being sealed up in their homes. Then I get told a wonder vaccine is coming to save the world, I'm to be ostracised and discriminated against for not taking it, even though it doesn't prevent contracting the virus or transmission, while at the same time the people who know just how dangerous this thing is are partying the night away.
The biggest cock up in history.
I can certainly see that perceptions vary depending on your lifestyle. For example, an old person frightened to leave their home and consuming a daily diet of Daily Mail and BBC could well have thought they were holed up in the middle of an apocalypse. For younger people, out and about as much as possible, in contact with a much wider circle of people and able to access information from many more sources, things looked different.
I have concluded two things. Firstly, that the actual death toll and risk were broadly similar to what happens periodically with a bad flu year or some other spike, Secondly, and there's no polite way to put this, the people in authority and responsible for sound leadership, collectively s
t the bed and succumbed to group think.I get annoyed when my life experience is dismissed as anecdotal because I know that it's not based on one off encounters in hairdressers or what friends of friends or friends have told me. I'll list some of the things that have led me to my conclusions, some of which are not anecdotal.
1. Medics were not decimated by the virus. In fact medic mortality was typical throughout the pandemic. If the virus was so lethal and so contagious then you'd have expected mega mortality amongst medics yet it never happened.
2. Supermarkets were never closed due to high levels of sickness absence. On-line deliveries and operations with their massive infrastructure continued unaffected. Garden centres had no issues with staffing and staying open. These are operations where people were doing the opposite of isolating and should have been hotbeds of contamination and subsequent death and illness.
3. Supply chains were never affected unless you count toilet rolls and hand sanitiser.
4. Not a single person that I knew or knew of died of covid. Not one. My circle includes 'vulnerable people' including two with COPD. They all survived and are still alive.
5. I was closely involved with the care sector and none of the homes lost a single resident until they were forced to accept infected people discharged back from hospital. When infection spread, the maximum death toll in homes where residents have an average age of 90 was never above 5%. This in an environment where in a larger home residents are inevitably dying on a weekly basis. Average life expectancy remains around 83 in this country and residency before death on entering care is typically close to two years.
6. The vast majority of deaths that I learned about through the media which did not involve the very old or people with serious comorbidities were obese people.
7. Undertakers and crematoria were never close to being overwhelmed.
8. The temporary morgues and Nightingale hospitals were never used.
9. People I know working in the public sector thought, and still think, it was the best wheeze ever. Productivity fell to new lows, which it would do if you spent a large part of the day walking the (new) dog, fishing, gardening, decorating or watching TV.
10. Obituary pages didn't swell to multiple pages and stories of deaths were dominated by situations where my reaction could be typified by 'hardly surprising, they were obvious extremely unhealthy'.
11. The press love a tragedy involving young people. There were next to zero reports of promising footballers and triathletes succumbing to the virus.
12. Whenever I ask people who they knew personally who died from covid the answer is always the same - old and sick people.
13. Tradespeople and most self-employed who couldn't get any financial support seemed to have a unique immunity.
At the same time as I'm living this experience I'm getting daily death figures on the BBC. Not 'net' figures or numbers taking into account typical daily death rates, just figures coupled with alarmist press conferences, pictures of mass graves in South America and stories of Chinese people being sealed up in their homes. Then I get told a wonder vaccine is coming to save the world, I'm to be ostracised and discriminated against for not taking it, even though it doesn't prevent contracting the virus or transmission, while at the same time the people who know just how dangerous this thing is are partying the night away.
The biggest cock up in history.
Unreal said:
The problem for a lot of people, myself included, was and is the disconnect between official figures presented in the most alarmist fashion and personal experience.
I can certainly see that perceptions vary depending on your lifestyle. For example, an old person frightened to leave their home and consuming a daily diet of Daily Mail and BBC could well have thought they were holed up in the middle of an apocalypse. For younger people, out and about as much as possible, in contact with a much wider circle of people and able to access information from many more sources, things looked different.
I have concluded two things. Firstly, that the actual death toll and risk were broadly similar to what happens periodically with a bad flu year or some other spike, Secondly, and there's no polite way to put this, the people in authority and responsible for sound leadership, collectively st the bed and succumbed to group think.
I get annoyed when my life experience is dismissed as anecdotal because I know that it's not based on one off encounters in hairdressers or what friends of friends or friends have told me. I'll list some of the things that have led me to my conclusions, some of which are not anecdotal.
1. Medics were not decimated by the virus. In fact medic mortality was typical throughout the pandemic. If the virus was so lethal and so contagious then you'd have expected mega mortality amongst medics yet it never happened.
2. Supermarkets were never closed due to high levels of sickness absence. On-line deliveries and operations with their massive infrastructure continued unaffected. Garden centres had no issues with staffing and staying open. These are operations where people were doing the opposite of isolating and should have been hotbeds of contamination and subsequent death and illness.
3. Supply chains were never affected unless you count toilet rolls and hand sanitiser.
4. Not a single person that I knew or knew of died of covid. Not one. My circle includes 'vulnerable people' including two with COPD. They all survived and are still alive.
5. I was closely involved with the care sector and none of the homes lost a single resident until they were forced to accept infected people discharged back from hospital. When infection spread, the maximum death toll in homes where residents have an average age of 90 was never above 5%. This in an environment where in a larger home residents are inevitably dying on a weekly basis. Average life expectancy remains around 83 in this country and residency before death on entering care is typically close to two years.
6. The vast majority of deaths that I learned about through the media which did not involve the very old or people with serious comorbidities were obese people.
7. Undertakers and crematoria were never close to being overwhelmed.
8. The temporary morgues and Nightingale hospitals were never used.
9. People I know working in the public sector thought, and still think, it was the best wheeze ever. Productivity fell to new lows, which it would do if you spent a large part of the day walking the (new) dog, fishing, gardening, decorating or watching TV.
10. Obituary pages didn't swell to multiple pages and stories of deaths were dominated by situations where my reaction could be typified by 'hardly surprising, they were obvious extremely unhealthy'.
11. The press love a tragedy involving young people. There were next to zero reports of promising footballers and triathletes succumbing to the virus.
12. Whenever I ask people who they knew personally who died from covid the answer is always the same - old and sick people.
13. Tradespeople and most self-employed who couldn't get any financial support seemed to have a unique immunity.
At the same time as I'm living this experience I'm getting daily death figures on the BBC. Not 'net' figures or numbers taking into account typical daily death rates, just figures coupled with alarmist press conferences, pictures of mass graves in South America and stories of Chinese people being sealed up in their homes. Then I get told a wonder vaccine is coming to save the world, I'm to be ostracised and discriminated against for not taking it, even though it doesn't prevent contracting the virus or transmission, while at the same time the people who know just how dangerous this thing is are partying the night away.
The biggest cock up in history.
Most of what you say is true. It reflects the fact that we were victims of unprecedented Govt propaganda. The nudge unit was employed to keep us all safe by making the situation seem as scary as possible, leveraging our natural instinct to conform and promoting performative acts. I can certainly see that perceptions vary depending on your lifestyle. For example, an old person frightened to leave their home and consuming a daily diet of Daily Mail and BBC could well have thought they were holed up in the middle of an apocalypse. For younger people, out and about as much as possible, in contact with a much wider circle of people and able to access information from many more sources, things looked different.
I have concluded two things. Firstly, that the actual death toll and risk were broadly similar to what happens periodically with a bad flu year or some other spike, Secondly, and there's no polite way to put this, the people in authority and responsible for sound leadership, collectively s
t the bed and succumbed to group think.I get annoyed when my life experience is dismissed as anecdotal because I know that it's not based on one off encounters in hairdressers or what friends of friends or friends have told me. I'll list some of the things that have led me to my conclusions, some of which are not anecdotal.
1. Medics were not decimated by the virus. In fact medic mortality was typical throughout the pandemic. If the virus was so lethal and so contagious then you'd have expected mega mortality amongst medics yet it never happened.
2. Supermarkets were never closed due to high levels of sickness absence. On-line deliveries and operations with their massive infrastructure continued unaffected. Garden centres had no issues with staffing and staying open. These are operations where people were doing the opposite of isolating and should have been hotbeds of contamination and subsequent death and illness.
3. Supply chains were never affected unless you count toilet rolls and hand sanitiser.
4. Not a single person that I knew or knew of died of covid. Not one. My circle includes 'vulnerable people' including two with COPD. They all survived and are still alive.
5. I was closely involved with the care sector and none of the homes lost a single resident until they were forced to accept infected people discharged back from hospital. When infection spread, the maximum death toll in homes where residents have an average age of 90 was never above 5%. This in an environment where in a larger home residents are inevitably dying on a weekly basis. Average life expectancy remains around 83 in this country and residency before death on entering care is typically close to two years.
6. The vast majority of deaths that I learned about through the media which did not involve the very old or people with serious comorbidities were obese people.
7. Undertakers and crematoria were never close to being overwhelmed.
8. The temporary morgues and Nightingale hospitals were never used.
9. People I know working in the public sector thought, and still think, it was the best wheeze ever. Productivity fell to new lows, which it would do if you spent a large part of the day walking the (new) dog, fishing, gardening, decorating or watching TV.
10. Obituary pages didn't swell to multiple pages and stories of deaths were dominated by situations where my reaction could be typified by 'hardly surprising, they were obvious extremely unhealthy'.
11. The press love a tragedy involving young people. There were next to zero reports of promising footballers and triathletes succumbing to the virus.
12. Whenever I ask people who they knew personally who died from covid the answer is always the same - old and sick people.
13. Tradespeople and most self-employed who couldn't get any financial support seemed to have a unique immunity.
At the same time as I'm living this experience I'm getting daily death figures on the BBC. Not 'net' figures or numbers taking into account typical daily death rates, just figures coupled with alarmist press conferences, pictures of mass graves in South America and stories of Chinese people being sealed up in their homes. Then I get told a wonder vaccine is coming to save the world, I'm to be ostracised and discriminated against for not taking it, even though it doesn't prevent contracting the virus or transmission, while at the same time the people who know just how dangerous this thing is are partying the night away.
The biggest cock up in history.
Although the numbers are not intuitive, the daily death tolls do represent what happened. There was a virus and it was dangerous for the sick and the old.
In a better world we would have focused our resources on helping them, whilst allowing infection to spread amongst the young and healthy. This wouldn’t have been perfect. Some people were always going to die as a result of this pandemic. Because despite our advances in medical science and technology we are still animals and vulnerable to disease.
I agree. Lockdown was the worst public policy mistake in modern history. The most egregious attack on freedom that has ever occurred in our democracy,
Good and evil were inverted. Cowardice became virtue and selfishness became noble. It was a disgraceful, shameful time.
But the disease was real. The deaths were real. The real issue is that two wrongs don’t make a right. Lockdown didn’t solve anything. It only caused harm.
" The nudge unit was employed to keep us all safe by making the situation seem as scary as possible,"
With the result that today in an outdoors half full Teso car park I saw a guy aged 30ish wearing a mask which every so often he pulled down to take a drag on his fag. Convinced he needs a mask to protect against a virus which was never likely to make him seriously ill while continuing a habit almost certain to shorten his life by years.
Well done nudge unit.
And - repeating myself here - never forget the criminal charges broight against people for going for a walk.
https://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2020/06/05/covid-...
With the result that today in an outdoors half full Teso car park I saw a guy aged 30ish wearing a mask which every so often he pulled down to take a drag on his fag. Convinced he needs a mask to protect against a virus which was never likely to make him seriously ill while continuing a habit almost certain to shorten his life by years.
Well done nudge unit.
And - repeating myself here - never forget the criminal charges broight against people for going for a walk.
https://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2020/06/05/covid-...
Ex-CDC Director Says It’s High Time to Admit ‘Significant Side Effects’ of COVID-19 Vaccines.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/ex-cdc-director-s...
"‘We kind of got cancelled because no one wanted to talk about the potential that there was a problem from the vaccines,’ Dr. Robert Redfield said."
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/ex-cdc-director-s...
"‘We kind of got cancelled because no one wanted to talk about the potential that there was a problem from the vaccines,’ Dr. Robert Redfield said."
This is the AZ clinical study if anyone is interested and wants to analyse it
https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/t...
https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/t...
More anecdata. A colleague and his wife (late 50s) had booked an overseas holiday, and were due to fly out this morning. Had jab n+1 of the magic sauce last week because they gotta be good and responsible citizens. Wife now has blood clots in both legs and the doctor refused to clear her to fly. Entirely unrelated, obviously, correlation is not causation, yadda yadda. Another story from Jonah here to be dismissed and denounced by the usual suspects 
Roderick Spode said:
More anecdata. A colleague and his wife (late 50s) had booked an overseas holiday, and were due to fly out this morning. Had jab n+1 of the magic sauce last week because they gotta be good and responsible citizens. Wife now has blood clots in both legs and the doctor refused to clear her to fly. Entirely unrelated, obviously, correlation is not causation, yadda yadda. Another story from Jonah here to be dismissed and denounced by the usual suspects
Surprising that they have had the spring booster as eligibility is (rightly) limited to the following groups:NHS said:
Adults aged 75 years and over by 30 June 2024
Residents in care homes for older adults
Individuals aged 6 months and over who are immunosuppressed.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2024/04/nhs-booking-system-to-open-for-spring-covid-19-vaccinations/Residents in care homes for older adults
Individuals aged 6 months and over who are immunosuppressed.
I would question the logic in even these vulnerable groups continuing to have boosters if they have previously had COVID
Elysium said:
Although the numbers are not intuitive, the daily death tolls do represent what happened.
Have you allowed for the 'death from any cause within 28 days of a positive test', or those deaths where medical practitioners needed nothing more than 'reasonable cause to suspect CV19 as a factor' ?If not, then the numbers presented by the ONS cannot be said to represent what was really going on.
Elysium said:
Roderick Spode said:
More anecdata. A colleague and his wife (late 50s) had booked an overseas holiday, and were due to fly out this morning. Had jab n+1 of the magic sauce last week because they gotta be good and responsible citizens. Wife now has blood clots in both legs and the doctor refused to clear her to fly. Entirely unrelated, obviously, correlation is not causation, yadda yadda. Another story from Jonah here to be dismissed and denounced by the usual suspects
Surprising that they have had the spring booster as eligibility is (rightly) limited to the following groups:NHS said:
Adults aged 75 years and over by 30 June 2024
Residents in care homes for older adults
Individuals aged 6 months and over who are immunosuppressed.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2024/04/nhs-booking-system-to-open-for-spring-covid-19-vaccinations/Residents in care homes for older adults
Individuals aged 6 months and over who are immunosuppressed.
I would question the logic in even these vulnerable groups continuing to have boosters if they have previously had COVID
Elysium said:
Unreal said:
The problem for a lot of people, myself included, was and is the disconnect between official figures presented in the most alarmist fashion and personal experience.
I can certainly see that perceptions vary depending on your lifestyle. For example, an old person frightened to leave their home and consuming a daily diet of Daily Mail and BBC could well have thought they were holed up in the middle of an apocalypse. For younger people, out and about as much as possible, in contact with a much wider circle of people and able to access information from many more sources, things looked different.
I have concluded two things. Firstly, that the actual death toll and risk were broadly similar to what happens periodically with a bad flu year or some other spike, Secondly, and there's no polite way to put this, the people in authority and responsible for sound leadership, collectively st the bed and succumbed to group think.
I get annoyed when my life experience is dismissed as anecdotal because I know that it's not based on one off encounters in hairdressers or what friends of friends or friends have told me. I'll list some of the things that have led me to my conclusions, some of which are not anecdotal.
1. Medics were not decimated by the virus. In fact medic mortality was typical throughout the pandemic. If the virus was so lethal and so contagious then you'd have expected mega mortality amongst medics yet it never happened.
2. Supermarkets were never closed due to high levels of sickness absence. On-line deliveries and operations with their massive infrastructure continued unaffected. Garden centres had no issues with staffing and staying open. These are operations where people were doing the opposite of isolating and should have been hotbeds of contamination and subsequent death and illness.
3. Supply chains were never affected unless you count toilet rolls and hand sanitiser.
4. Not a single person that I knew or knew of died of covid. Not one. My circle includes 'vulnerable people' including two with COPD. They all survived and are still alive.
5. I was closely involved with the care sector and none of the homes lost a single resident until they were forced to accept infected people discharged back from hospital. When infection spread, the maximum death toll in homes where residents have an average age of 90 was never above 5%. This in an environment where in a larger home residents are inevitably dying on a weekly basis. Average life expectancy remains around 83 in this country and residency before death on entering care is typically close to two years.
6. The vast majority of deaths that I learned about through the media which did not involve the very old or people with serious comorbidities were obese people.
7. Undertakers and crematoria were never close to being overwhelmed.
8. The temporary morgues and Nightingale hospitals were never used.
9. People I know working in the public sector thought, and still think, it was the best wheeze ever. Productivity fell to new lows, which it would do if you spent a large part of the day walking the (new) dog, fishing, gardening, decorating or watching TV.
10. Obituary pages didn't swell to multiple pages and stories of deaths were dominated by situations where my reaction could be typified by 'hardly surprising, they were obvious extremely unhealthy'.
11. The press love a tragedy involving young people. There were next to zero reports of promising footballers and triathletes succumbing to the virus.
12. Whenever I ask people who they knew personally who died from covid the answer is always the same - old and sick people.
13. Tradespeople and most self-employed who couldn't get any financial support seemed to have a unique immunity.
At the same time as I'm living this experience I'm getting daily death figures on the BBC. Not 'net' figures or numbers taking into account typical daily death rates, just figures coupled with alarmist press conferences, pictures of mass graves in South America and stories of Chinese people being sealed up in their homes. Then I get told a wonder vaccine is coming to save the world, I'm to be ostracised and discriminated against for not taking it, even though it doesn't prevent contracting the virus or transmission, while at the same time the people who know just how dangerous this thing is are partying the night away.
The biggest cock up in history.
Most of what you say is true. It reflects the fact that we were victims of unprecedented Govt propaganda. The nudge unit was employed to keep us all safe by making the situation seem as scary as possible, leveraging our natural instinct to conform and promoting performative acts. I can certainly see that perceptions vary depending on your lifestyle. For example, an old person frightened to leave their home and consuming a daily diet of Daily Mail and BBC could well have thought they were holed up in the middle of an apocalypse. For younger people, out and about as much as possible, in contact with a much wider circle of people and able to access information from many more sources, things looked different.
I have concluded two things. Firstly, that the actual death toll and risk were broadly similar to what happens periodically with a bad flu year or some other spike, Secondly, and there's no polite way to put this, the people in authority and responsible for sound leadership, collectively s
t the bed and succumbed to group think.I get annoyed when my life experience is dismissed as anecdotal because I know that it's not based on one off encounters in hairdressers or what friends of friends or friends have told me. I'll list some of the things that have led me to my conclusions, some of which are not anecdotal.
1. Medics were not decimated by the virus. In fact medic mortality was typical throughout the pandemic. If the virus was so lethal and so contagious then you'd have expected mega mortality amongst medics yet it never happened.
2. Supermarkets were never closed due to high levels of sickness absence. On-line deliveries and operations with their massive infrastructure continued unaffected. Garden centres had no issues with staffing and staying open. These are operations where people were doing the opposite of isolating and should have been hotbeds of contamination and subsequent death and illness.
3. Supply chains were never affected unless you count toilet rolls and hand sanitiser.
4. Not a single person that I knew or knew of died of covid. Not one. My circle includes 'vulnerable people' including two with COPD. They all survived and are still alive.
5. I was closely involved with the care sector and none of the homes lost a single resident until they were forced to accept infected people discharged back from hospital. When infection spread, the maximum death toll in homes where residents have an average age of 90 was never above 5%. This in an environment where in a larger home residents are inevitably dying on a weekly basis. Average life expectancy remains around 83 in this country and residency before death on entering care is typically close to two years.
6. The vast majority of deaths that I learned about through the media which did not involve the very old or people with serious comorbidities were obese people.
7. Undertakers and crematoria were never close to being overwhelmed.
8. The temporary morgues and Nightingale hospitals were never used.
9. People I know working in the public sector thought, and still think, it was the best wheeze ever. Productivity fell to new lows, which it would do if you spent a large part of the day walking the (new) dog, fishing, gardening, decorating or watching TV.
10. Obituary pages didn't swell to multiple pages and stories of deaths were dominated by situations where my reaction could be typified by 'hardly surprising, they were obvious extremely unhealthy'.
11. The press love a tragedy involving young people. There were next to zero reports of promising footballers and triathletes succumbing to the virus.
12. Whenever I ask people who they knew personally who died from covid the answer is always the same - old and sick people.
13. Tradespeople and most self-employed who couldn't get any financial support seemed to have a unique immunity.
At the same time as I'm living this experience I'm getting daily death figures on the BBC. Not 'net' figures or numbers taking into account typical daily death rates, just figures coupled with alarmist press conferences, pictures of mass graves in South America and stories of Chinese people being sealed up in their homes. Then I get told a wonder vaccine is coming to save the world, I'm to be ostracised and discriminated against for not taking it, even though it doesn't prevent contracting the virus or transmission, while at the same time the people who know just how dangerous this thing is are partying the night away.
The biggest cock up in history.
Although the numbers are not intuitive, the daily death tolls do represent what happened. There was a virus and it was dangerous for the sick and the old.
In a better world we would have focused our resources on helping them, whilst allowing infection to spread amongst the young and healthy. This wouldn’t have been perfect. Some people were always going to die as a result of this pandemic. Because despite our advances in medical science and technology we are still animals and vulnerable to disease.
I agree. Lockdown was the worst public policy mistake in modern history. The most egregious attack on freedom that has ever occurred in our democracy,
Good and evil were inverted. Cowardice became virtue and selfishness became noble. It was a disgraceful, shameful time.
But the disease was real. The deaths were real. The real issue is that two wrongs don’t make a right. Lockdown didn’t solve anything. It only caused harm.
I also think that government failed to govern and it really was mob rule via the court of social media. When the baying mob started shouting for masks, the government bent to their will, as they did with everything sadly.
I think some of those crying for the unvaccinated to be rounded up, that masks should be worn at all times, night and day, pubs and clubs shut down forever types were clinically vulnerable, or perceived themselves to be vulnerable. This lead to a highly emotive "lock 'em all up" mentality, hence the cowardice. In the face of death (real or perceived) pretty much everyone will drop to base instincts.
J210 said:
This is the AZ clinical study if anyone is interested and wants to analyse it
https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/t...
Have you seen any decent analysis of this yet? https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/t...
This link is saying 2 jabs = 1/35 chance of a SERIOUS adverse event?
https://x.com/HopeRising19/status/1792405989733306...
cliffe_mafia said:
Have you seen any decent analysis of this yet?
This link is saying 2 jabs = 1/35 chance of a SERIOUS adverse event?
https://x.com/HopeRising19/status/1792405989733306...
Over 50 million doses given in the UK would be around 700,000 serious adverse events. Is that plausible?This link is saying 2 jabs = 1/35 chance of a SERIOUS adverse event?
https://x.com/HopeRising19/status/1792405989733306...
Google says -
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/number-new-disabil...
New claimants per month doubled between summer 2021 and summer 2022 to 30,000 per month.
Gov says -
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-...
Months and months at 60k new claims per month would be in the ball park.
cliffe_mafia said:
J210 said:
This is the AZ clinical study if anyone is interested and wants to analyse it
https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/t...
Have you seen any decent analysis of this yet? https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/t...
This link is saying 2 jabs = 1/35 chance of a SERIOUS adverse event?
https://x.com/HopeRising19/status/1792405989733306...
and also helpfully excludes the later secondary endpoint analysis that states
serious adverse events - placebo (4.33%), AZD1222 (4.81%)
Although the numbers involved then somewhat are at odds with the earlier numbers quoted so a slightly closer look at the full dataset might be required as obviously taking headline numbers without any context/underlying information is going to be rather misleading but I guess people on twitter probably don't really care too much about that either.
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