Discussion
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
Yes.
Because the air is moving, it certainly doesn’t feel warm. It definitely cools you down. We feel absolutely no need for aircon, even on a hot night.
Most systems have silent settings for both the external & internal units.Because the air is moving, it certainly doesn’t feel warm. It definitely cools you down. We feel absolutely no need for aircon, even on a hot night.
How does the ceiling fan cool you down when ambient is high, the ac removes the humidity as well as lowering the internal temp.
Bonus I can check the AP & either cool or heat rooms while away from home
alabbasi said:
Simpo Two said:
Do you have any links please?
For the UK, I can only find the mini split unit which is here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186309485983That's actually a killer deal for a Mitsubishi unit but I'm not sure what the BTU's are and that's important to determine, depending on the size of the room you want to cool (12000BTU will cool up to a 500SQ/FT room).
This is a Window unit:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/326132289900
It basically fits in a window with it's rear hanging out or you can make a hole in the wall and install it that way which is how i have at my hobby shop office. They're more efficient when compared to the stand alone units that have an exhaust hose. They don't seem to be popular in the UK as I don't see any for sale.
.
As for the noise of a/c in the bedroom, I plan to switch it off at night.
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
For a bedroom, I wouldn’t recommend air conditioning of any kind. Too noisy.
Everyone's different in their tolerance to noise. I have a Daikin stylish unit in the bedroom and it's very quiet, just the lowest swish of air which I can only hear occasionally when waking in the night as the location is very quiet. Doesn't cause me any difficulty sleeping and most of the time it's off anyway. The external unit is at the other side of the house and is not audible.Danns said:
They really need to be converted to a twin pipe system (exactly zero twin pipes are available in the U.K) to work properly
I've always wondered why there are no twin pipes available in the UK. Most articles mention them as the best option, so I would have thought there would be a strong market for them.Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
For a bedroom, I wouldn’t recommend air conditioning of any kind. Too noisy.
You can feel cool without air conditioning. A ceiling fan is much cheaper to buy, much much cheaper to run, and almost silent in operation - certainly quiet enough to have it running all night. And you can fit it yourself.
I fitted one of these in place of the existing light fitting in the bedroom. It’s bloody brilliant, and rarely do we need to use it above its minimum speed. Because the blades are large, they don’t need to spin fast and therefore create none of the noise of a pedestal fan. There is a very faint hum from the motor, but not very noticeable. And the air movement is really even with no buffeting.
It gives 80% of the benefit of aircon, for a fraction of the cost and with virtually no noise.
In fact we were so impressed with it that Mrs Oxgreen wanted one in her study, so I ended up buying and fitting a second one.
I’d mostly agree with this. You can feel cool without air conditioning. A ceiling fan is much cheaper to buy, much much cheaper to run, and almost silent in operation - certainly quiet enough to have it running all night. And you can fit it yourself.
I fitted one of these in place of the existing light fitting in the bedroom. It’s bloody brilliant, and rarely do we need to use it above its minimum speed. Because the blades are large, they don’t need to spin fast and therefore create none of the noise of a pedestal fan. There is a very faint hum from the motor, but not very noticeable. And the air movement is really even with no buffeting.
It gives 80% of the benefit of aircon, for a fraction of the cost and with virtually no noise.
In fact we were so impressed with it that Mrs Oxgreen wanted one in her study, so I ended up buying and fitting a second one.
I live in southern Spain, so temperatures are a lot hotter a lot more of the time than the UK and I hardly ever use my AC, despite it being cheap to run and effectively silent (modern Mitsubishi ducted inverter system).
A ceiling fan works brilliantly up to low/mid 30’s. AC only goes on for a hour or 2 when it’s still 35* at 9-10pm… to get the temperature down a bit before bed. Windows and doors closed and ceiling fans works fine through the night.
Simpo Two said:
Thanks very much. Two snags though - the split system is certainly cheap, but I need an installer to fit it and the ones I've spoken to don't want to fit stuff they haven't supplied. The window version is out as I don't want to lose that much window space or knock huge rectangles in the wall.
As for the noise of a/c in the bedroom, I plan to switch it off at night.
If it's at all possible, definitely go for a fixed system for all the reasons that others have given. Portables are great for emergencies, or home office cooling or if in a flat but if you have a house with the space for the exterior unit then you're going to end up eventually buying a fixed system as the portable one will show you the benefits but have many disadvantages. As for the noise of a/c in the bedroom, I plan to switch it off at night.
It's also a useful back-up to gas central heating in winter and depending how discount tariffs end up working in the long run may even be cheaper at times.
I also suspect that being able to have the system ticking over at night will be a big benefit. If a room needs cooling that much then the residual day time heat will leach in quite quickly at night and by 3am you might find yourself back to square one.
DonkeyApple said:
Simpo Two said:
Thanks very much. Two snags though - the split system is certainly cheap, but I need an installer to fit it and the ones I've spoken to don't want to fit stuff they haven't supplied. The window version is out as I don't want to lose that much window space or knock huge rectangles in the wall.
As for the noise of a/c in the bedroom, I plan to switch it off at night.
If it's at all possible, definitely go for a fixed system for all the reasons that others have given. Portables are great for emergencies, or home office cooling or if in a flat but if you have a house with the space for the exterior unit then you're going to end up eventually buying a fixed system as the portable one will show you the benefits but have many disadvantages. As for the noise of a/c in the bedroom, I plan to switch it off at night.
It's also a useful back-up to gas central heating in winter and depending how discount tariffs end up working in the long run may even be cheaper at times.
I also suspect that being able to have the system ticking over at night will be a big benefit. If a room needs cooling that much then the residual day time heat will leach in quite quickly at night and by 3am you might find yourself back to square one.
So that's that sorted out.
As for whether to put the outside box on a sunny wall or a shaded wall, one installer said 'doesn't make any difference', that other said 'use the shady wall'. What does the panel think?
Simpo Two said:
Agreed. I'm going to review the quotes I got last year for split systems and see if I can get something sorted out for the 2024 heatwaves. I just don't think the UK domestic a/c industry has got, or ever will get, its brains round ducted systems so I'll press ahead with with they do best. A big box outside and two boxes inside - and let's just hope that one at the narrow north end of a 25' room with sun blazing in the other end will cool the south end without freezing my head off in the north end.
So that's that sorted out.
As for whether to put the outside box on a sunny wall or a shaded wall, one installer said 'doesn't make any difference', that other said 'use the shady wall'. What does the panel think?
My father put aircon into an old barn conversion years ago and it was brilliant for just maintaining a cooler temp in summer and warmth in winter. It doesn't work too well if someone else in the house leaves windows open all the time. So that's that sorted out.
As for whether to put the outside box on a sunny wall or a shaded wall, one installer said 'doesn't make any difference', that other said 'use the shady wall'. What does the panel think?
I wonder if your issue now in finding an old fashioned aircon fitter is caused by the arrival of the ASHP industry and those firms dominating the search listings?
In the past you'd just Google 'Mr Cucumber' and all the aircon fitters would appear. Today, I suspect you'd get very different search results.
SAS Tom said:
Portable units might not be the most efficient but my view is that they do work. We bought one at work for a portakabin that is in the sun from sunrise to sunset. It would get to over 40 degrees inside and a 12000btu unit would cool it down.
I was looking for one for the house which every room has a south facing window and settled on a 9000btu unit last week. My thoughts were that it would be better to get 2x 9000 units rather than 1x12000 and now I’ve tested one I will be ordering a second.
I don’t find the noise a problem at all.
I believe the proper systems will be better but there is certainly a place for portable units.
Yeah just replaced a 17 year old Argos one for a new one £160 from AmazonI was looking for one for the house which every room has a south facing window and settled on a 9000btu unit last week. My thoughts were that it would be better to get 2x 9000 units rather than 1x12000 and now I’ve tested one I will be ordering a second.
I don’t find the noise a problem at all.
I believe the proper systems will be better but there is certainly a place for portable units.
Wife reckons it’s not as good but set it at 20 degrees and i’m freezing (Although rooms only about 24 degrees at the moment)
Anyway white noise allows us to sleep better given we live on a noisy road.
Assume our house must be build well as its old as we have never got to the stage where it’s unbearable. The only time is was horrible was a few years back when we had a week of constant 27 degrees and sunny and we were on holiday so the house has been locked up cooking !
DonkeyApple said:
I wonder if your issue now in finding an old fashioned aircon fitter is caused by the arrival of the ASHP industry and those firms dominating the search listings?
Not really, searching locally finds them. But domestic a/c is still a rare thing in this country so most of them are geared up for commercial stuff and don't have much interest in a £3K job.The 'ASHP' aspect is great because it means the kit is zero VAT
(though one quote included VAT, which I queried; he defended it so I sent him the HMRC page upon which he disappeared)
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
For a bedroom, I wouldn’t recommend air conditioning of any kind. Too noisy
We have some Aeratron ceiling fans, and agree they are very good. But, if you have noise outside that's more annoying. I'll disagree on air conditioning being noisy at night, we'll mine isn't. Daikin units have quiet mode and whilst not of a concern due to where they are sited, you can also do that to the condensers.
Simpo Two said:
119 said:
Ours in the bedroom is right above our heads and neither of us have any trouble with the noise on quiet mode.
Best thing I’ve spent money on, ever.
And i mean ever.
What make/model is that, and/or quoted dB please? It will give me something to aim for.Best thing I’ve spent money on, ever.
And i mean ever.
Model
https://www.daikin.co.uk/content/dam/dauk/document...
We have the FTXM25R x 2 one in the lounge and one in the bedroom on a 5.5 kw outdoor unit.
It was around £1800 for the lot plus £500 for an installer and his mate for a day, and that included running outdoor trunking plus a bit for a sparky to run a 20 supply.
Having said that you can get a kit for a single split for a lot less but you have to be careful when choosing as the package specs can differ slightly.
Simpo Two said:
shirt said:
The main advantage is looks. No boxes on show, just the grilles. I’m not sure how a retrofit would be handled into a typical uk house construction though and the complexity / rework required is likely what is putting off suppliers from quoting. I’d have thought you’d need a builder or plasterer / decorator to work with the system design to advise on that.
It's actually very simple - the FCU would be in the loft with a short duct through the upstairs ceiling to the bedroom, and another duct (or the same one with a flap valve) descending vertically through a built-in wardrobe to the centre of the lounge/diner directly below.
The (potential) installers seemed overly concerned with control systems, talking about return ducts and fretting over where the air would go. But I'm not demanding perfect climate control, just a simple way to turn the unit on/off/up/down which could be wired or wireless. I could make the holes and fit ducting myself, I just need someone to specify and install the equipment.
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