Am I obliged to allow Octopus to fit a smart meter?
Discussion
Simpo Two said:
Alickadoo said:
Macneil said:
I rent my house and would expect the landlord to ensure the meters are safe and compliant. This email stinks to me.
Why does it stink?I've just ended up with Octopus after they took over Shell Energy, and haven't had that e-mail. I pay monthly by DD and can change it online if I wish.
craig1912 said:
Griffith4ever said:
For the vast majority of us who have NOT got an EV, cheap povernight tarrifs are mostly not available, AND, with the exception of washing machines and dishwashers, there is no way for us to use overnight energy. For a two person childless household, electricity costs are not high, and impractical to move to night time. So taking this into consideration there is little motivation to move to a smart meter when it mostly offers the energy Co something, not us, AND there are unknowns about future Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day).
This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.
Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.
Well said. We are on Flexible Octopus. Two of us, using washing machine at night isn’t an option, dishwasher once every 2/3 days.This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.
Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.
Happy inputting the readings into the app once a month.
Agree unless there is a decent financial incentive they can keep their “smart” meters.
964Cup said:
You're all missing a key point.
Yes, smart meters give you some control over costs and access to cheaper tariffs.
Yes, they also allow your supplier to throttle your usage and - in future - remotely control smart devices in your house (this is baked into law - look up "energy smart appliances", "load controllers" and the very clear government fact sheet on the Energy Security Bill).
But they also allow everyone with access to the data to tell when you are away from home. And, based on your consumption along with your address, to make a decent guess at whether your house is worth robbing. This applies to all three utilities, although water is by far the most obvious, and can only be defeated by setting your house up to mirror consumption in residence while you are absent. Which is immensely wasteful as well as quite difficult to achieve.
So ask yourself, if you were a terribly paid, terribly managed call centre operator, likely on a completely different continent, and someone offered you money to let them know when the right sort of people were on their hols, wwyd?
Yeeesh. I think call center staff on different continents would have more success phoning your neighbor to ask if you're home than do what you are saying. Yes, smart meters give you some control over costs and access to cheaper tariffs.
Yes, they also allow your supplier to throttle your usage and - in future - remotely control smart devices in your house (this is baked into law - look up "energy smart appliances", "load controllers" and the very clear government fact sheet on the Energy Security Bill).
But they also allow everyone with access to the data to tell when you are away from home. And, based on your consumption along with your address, to make a decent guess at whether your house is worth robbing. This applies to all three utilities, although water is by far the most obvious, and can only be defeated by setting your house up to mirror consumption in residence while you are absent. Which is immensely wasteful as well as quite difficult to achieve.
So ask yourself, if you were a terribly paid, terribly managed call centre operator, likely on a completely different continent, and someone offered you money to let them know when the right sort of people were on their hols, wwyd?
SpidersWeb said:
Even if you don't want a 'time of use' tariff, then why not use a 'day of use' smart meter tariff such as Tracker which has prices 20% lower than the Flexible Octopus rates? Unless of course your hatred/fear of smart meters is such that you like overpaying.
Beta product, no thanks I’ll wait a while and pay £10-15 more per month for now rather than risk doubling of costs in autumn/winter. The various warnings and t’s & c’s are putting me off.Road2Ruin said:
craig1912 said:
Beta product, no thanks I’ll wait a while and pay £10-15 more per month for now rather than risk doubling of costs in autumn/winter. The various warnings and t’s & c’s are putting me off.
You do know you can exit the tariff at any time? dickymint said:
Road2Ruin said:
craig1912 said:
Beta product, no thanks I’ll wait a while and pay £10-15 more per month for now rather than risk doubling of costs in autumn/winter. The various warnings and t’s & c’s are putting me off.
You do know you can exit the tariff at any time? Road2Ruin said:
dickymint said:
Road2Ruin said:
craig1912 said:
Beta product, no thanks I’ll wait a while and pay £10-15 more per month for now rather than risk doubling of costs in autumn/winter. The various warnings and t’s & c’s are putting me off.
You do know you can exit the tariff at any time? - We have lots of residential energy supplies and deal with the energy companies daily.
SpidersWeb said:
Griffith4ever said:
For the vast majority of us who have NOT got an EV, cheap povernight tarrifs are mostly not available, AND, with the exception of washing machines and dishwashers, there is no way for us to use overnight energy. For a two person childless household, electricity costs are not high, and impractical to move to night time. So taking this into consideration there is little motivation to move to a smart meter when it mostly offers the energy Co something, not us, AND there are unknowns about future Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day).
This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.
Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.
Yes of course electricity costs are not a significant burden for most people, but there are tariffs where it is cheaper.This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.
Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.
The "Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day)" is here now for time of use tariffs as you can see from below - however, unless you use all of your electricity in the 4pm to 7pm slot then the overall cost for the day will have been lower.
And sure those who remain on meters that cannot record time of use do not suffer those peak costs, but those peak costs are built into their tariff so they pay a far higher flat tariff for most of the day than those who are charged based on the underlying wholesale price.
So feel free to carry on paying 25p/kWh when you could be paying significantly less for most of your consumption, as I am sure the shareholders at your energy company will welcome the extra money you are choosing to pay them.
During the day I work which is very low power use, then my dinner is cooked at around 6-7pm. That's out peak usage. I can't imagine I'm an unusual case.
yeah - I'm throwing money at the leccy company :-) Seriously, I thinkl having smart meters and variable tarrifs makes people jump through hoops to justify it. Bit like people with solar and a poor feed in tarrif.
Edit, I just had a read on the OPctopus site, Your daily use is not quite the whole story - its not in winter for starters. Quote :
"Agile Octopus is one of our innovative beta smart tariffs, helping bring cheaper and greener power to all our customers, but is directly impacted by wholesale market volatility.
Agile prices can spike up to 100 p/kWh any time- although a typical household in Winter '22-'23 paid around 35 p/kWh average.
This tariff is best suited to customers who can shift large amounts of their energy use to avoid these expensive peaks, often by using smart home technologies like solar and batteries."
..... will give that a miss thanks. Neither can I "shift" my power usage, nor do I want to pay an average of 35p.
Glad it works for you.
Edited by Griffith4ever on Friday 17th May 15:19
Road2Ruin said:
Octopus Agile would save you money. Their daytime prices are usually cheap than the cap, the low demand prices sometimes give you money back or are pennies. Even just doing washing, tumble drying and dish washers at night will save a noticeable amount. I see a lot of people on the Octopus thread seeing averages of 12-13p pkwh. Of course to the powerfully built PH directors, saving £10 per month is a faff, but for real people it makes a difference.
I have an EV, so I can save more. My last bill was an average of 7.6p pkwh.
2 things I agree with - saving £10 a month IS a faff, and, I am a director ;-), and you have an EV which puts you in a very specfic user group.I have an EV, so I can save more. My last bill was an average of 7.6p pkwh.
We have a heat pump dryer that uses so little energy it just doesn't matter (to me), and the mrs runs the washing machine about 3 times a week.
craig1912 said:
SpidersWeb said:
Even if you don't want a 'time of use' tariff, then why not use a 'day of use' smart meter tariff such as Tracker which has prices 20% lower than the Flexible Octopus rates? Unless of course your hatred/fear of smart meters is such that you like overpaying.
Beta product, no thanks I’ll wait a while and pay £10-15 more per month for now rather than risk doubling of costs in autumn/winter. The various warnings and t’s & c’s are putting me off.SpidersWeb said:
So you want to pay £150 a year more for electricity, plus even more on gas if you use that - please do, since as Octopus isn't making a profit that must mean you are subsidising my bills.
No that saving won’t be made during autumn/winter months, For me it’s likely cost neutral at absolute best but, probably cost more over 12 mths. If you think I’m subsidising your bills, good for you. You’re obviously happy on your tariff but don’t get all evangelistic about it.
craig1912 said:
SpidersWeb said:
So you want to pay £150 a year more for electricity, plus even more on gas if you use that - please do, since as Octopus isn't making a profit that must mean you are subsidising my bills.
No that saving won’t be made during autumn/winter months, For me it’s likely cost neutral at absolute best but, probably cost more over 12 mths. The Tracker prices have been constantly below the standard price for the last couple of years, so whatever point in the year you use electricity or gas it is cheaper.
craig1912 said:
SpidersWeb said:
So you want to pay £150 a year more for electricity, plus even more on gas if you use that - please do, since as Octopus isn't making a profit that must mean you are subsidising my bills.
No that saving won’t be made during autumn/winter months, For me it’s likely cost neutral at absolute best but, probably cost more over 12 mths. If you think I’m subsidising your bills, good for you. You’re obviously happy on your tariff but don’t get all evangelistic about it.
Octopus also publish all their Agile rates so a quick fact check would have debunked your claim.
Unless you have an EV which must be charged or a pool which needs to be heated between 4-7pm, I'm pretty sure Agile would have worked out cheaper for almost everyone.
Louis Balfour said:
They can force you onto pre-pay. Which is reason enough. Pre-Ukraine the energy companies were RELATIVELY benign. Post, they have turned into absolute gangsters who I would not want at the controls of smart meters in our properties*
- We have lots of residential energy supplies and deal with the energy companies daily.
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