The decline of manual values
Discussion
heebeegeetee said:
NDNDNDND said:
0a said:
heebeegeetee said:
Nobody is talking about scrapping cars.
I'm just simply saying, that having just bought a manual, "fine" is absolutely not the word I would use to describe it. Archaic and inefficient are words I would choose, frustrating possibly another.
I totally agree that the actual act of changing gear is a piece of pi**, not least in the car I've just bought, but that also leaves me puzzled over the fuss people make about manual changing.
Each to their own, and horses for courses. I do think some of the modern dct 'boxes are amazing bits of kit and I have enjoyed using them.
When a car can drive itself faster around a track than you can, will you deem that an "enjoyable" driving experience?I'm just simply saying, that having just bought a manual, "fine" is absolutely not the word I would use to describe it. Archaic and inefficient are words I would choose, frustrating possibly another.
I totally agree that the actual act of changing gear is a piece of pi**, not least in the car I've just bought, but that also leaves me puzzled over the fuss people make about manual changing.
Each to their own, and horses for courses. I do think some of the modern dct 'boxes are amazing bits of kit and I have enjoyed using them.
If you can't heel n' toe, I can understand why you'd find a manual frustrating and need something to change gears for you.
Look, I'm more than willing to hand in my card as an utter driving god and as a man, but please, if you're brought up on h gate car synco gearboxes you won't do well at one-upmanship. One-upmanship on transmissions is one area I'll do well.
Says "he".
Or maybe you're saying you're too old and have given up, and that you're equating that you can't be arsed anymore with some sort of moral and intellectual superiority?
Some of us are still trying to have a little fun, here...
NDNDNDND said:
Is that an evasive way of saying 'no'?
Or maybe you're saying you're too old and have given up, and that you're equating that you can't be arsed anymore with some sort of moral and intellectual superiority?
Some of us are still trying to have a little fun, here...
What on earth is stopping you? Or maybe you're saying you're too old and have given up, and that you're equating that you can't be arsed anymore with some sort of moral and intellectual superiority?
Some of us are still trying to have a little fun, here...
I went to full time car automatics about 10 years ago. Being away for up to 10 days at a time in a truck or doing 800miles in a day in a van the last thing that I wanted to do was think about gears in my car to get me home .
I did occasionally drive an automatic truck or van ,back then they were awful clunky things to drive .
These days I have a CLC Merc with switchable auto and the choice of using flappy paddles..
Looking at an Audi A8 with Tiptronic next week .
Now I am retired and have knackered knees,hips and back I doubt that I will ever own another manual
In normal road driving a modern automatic is so much quicker to drive in traffic.
I did occasionally drive an automatic truck or van ,back then they were awful clunky things to drive .
These days I have a CLC Merc with switchable auto and the choice of using flappy paddles..
Looking at an Audi A8 with Tiptronic next week .
Now I am retired and have knackered knees,hips and back I doubt that I will ever own another manual
In normal road driving a modern automatic is so much quicker to drive in traffic.
jonwm said:
Had an interesting conversation with an extremely large driving lesson company last week who we provide cars for.
They want more EV on fleet, for many reasons, green agenda of being driven all day etc but the government won't listen to them about only being able to issue an "auto" licence.
So they will be having to buy manual petrol and diesel for as long as possible in order for people to get a full licence.
How would you learn to drive a manual in an EV?They want more EV on fleet, for many reasons, green agenda of being driven all day etc but the government won't listen to them about only being able to issue an "auto" licence.
So they will be having to buy manual petrol and diesel for as long as possible in order for people to get a full licence.
BandOfBrothers said:
jonwm said:
Had an interesting conversation with an extremely large driving lesson company last week who we provide cars for.
They want more EV on fleet, for many reasons, green agenda of being driven all day etc but the government won't listen to them about only being able to issue an "auto" licence.
So they will be having to buy manual petrol and diesel for as long as possible in order for people to get a full licence.
How would you learn to drive a manual in an EV?They want more EV on fleet, for many reasons, green agenda of being driven all day etc but the government won't listen to them about only being able to issue an "auto" licence.
So they will be having to buy manual petrol and diesel for as long as possible in order for people to get a full licence.
I wouldn't know how to drive a vintage car. I probably couldn't even work out how to start it. If I ever need to drive one, the owner can teach me what to do.
Unless it's a really good manual (and there aren't many) who cares. Modern autos are not only more accelerative and fuel efficient, they are just so much more relaxing in heavy traffic - which lets face it is a daily occurrence for most of us these days.
There will be no gearboxes at all when the world is fully EV, so their demise was inevitable.
There will be no gearboxes at all when the world is fully EV, so their demise was inevitable.
heebeegeetee said:
NDNDNDND said:
Is that an evasive way of saying 'no'?
Or maybe you're saying you're too old and have given up, and that you're equating that you can't be arsed anymore with some sort of moral and intellectual superiority?
Some of us are still trying to have a little fun, here...
What on earth is stopping you? Or maybe you're saying you're too old and have given up, and that you're equating that you can't be arsed anymore with some sort of moral and intellectual superiority?
Some of us are still trying to have a little fun, here...
NDNDNDND said:
I bet he can't heel n' toe.
If you can't heel n' toe, I can understand why you'd find a manual frustrating and need something to change gears for you.
Driving down Cheddar Gorge one day in the 1990s, I thought to myself, "If only I could brake and change gear smoothly at the same time. That heel-and-toe malarkey might be worth a try after all".If you can't heel n' toe, I can understand why you'd find a manual frustrating and need something to change gears for you.
It was ...and it still is.
Of course, for people who struggle with manual gearboxes, by all means pretend that manual gearbixes are universally terrible.
To be fair, manual gearboxes are a bit of a half way house, not as smooth as autos on road, and not as efficient as sequentials on track (why does nearly every race car have a sequential box.)
They’re sort of deliberately worse to give drivers a sense of achievement for doing something, which is fine if that’s what floats your boat, but recognise them for what they are.
They’re sort of deliberately worse to give drivers a sense of achievement for doing something, which is fine if that’s what floats your boat, but recognise them for what they are.
740EVTORQUES said:
To be fair, manual gearboxes are a bit of a half way house, not as smooth as autos on road, and not as efficient as sequentials on track (why does nearly every race car have a sequential box.)
They’re sort of deliberately worse to give drivers a sense of achievement for doing something, which is fine if that’s what floats your boat, but recognise them for what they are.
For a road car, sequential gearboxes are less convenient. They’re sort of deliberately worse to give drivers a sense of achievement for doing something, which is fine if that’s what floats your boat, but recognise them for what they are.
Yes, motorbikes have them, and I can ride a motorbike.
rottenegg said:
Unless it's a really good manual (and there aren't many) who cares. Modern autos are not only more accelerative and fuel efficient, they are just so much more relaxing in heavy traffic - which lets face it is a daily occurrence for most of us these days.
There will be no gearboxes at all when the world is fully EV, so their demise was inevitable.
Imagine how boring cars will be when they're all electric though. A very sorry state of affairs in my opinion. There will be no gearboxes at all when the world is fully EV, so their demise was inevitable.
MC Bodge said:
NDNDNDND said:
I bet he can't heel n' toe.
If you can't heel n' toe, I can understand why you'd find a manual frustrating and need something to change gears for you.
Driving down Cheddar Gorge one day in the 1990s, I thought to myself, "If only I could brake and change gear smoothly at the same time. That heel-and-toe malarkey might be worth a try after all".If you can't heel n' toe, I can understand why you'd find a manual frustrating and need something to change gears for you.
It was ...and it still is.
Of course, for people who struggle with manual gearboxes, by all means pretend that manual gearbixes are universally terrible.
I'll tell you what there will be on threads like this, there will be many whose only experience will be with conventional h-gate syncromesh gearboxes, and based on that they will think they have particular skills.
For what it's worth, I think I can play top trumps in transmissions, my driving life started in the army (REME) in the 1970s, and for my sins, for @ 12 years I was the owner of a lorry with a crash gearbox. Effing horrible thing that was.
For those who think they can double declutch, honestly, doing it on a synco gearbox doesn't count.
And yes, I can heel and toe, I was shown it when in the army in the 70s. Struggling now to remember the car, I'm going to say 2 series BMW, I had mates with a 1602 and a 2002 (but not Tii) and I think it was the 2002. Very nice cars, they were.
--
Coincidentally I've just had an interesting 3 days with a new to us manual gearbox car, very much relevant to the thread I think. I'll post later, meanwhile it's sunny and I have my old 986 outside, which is perfectly set up for heel and toe.
heebeegeetee said:
MC Bodge said:
NDNDNDND said:
I bet he can't heel n' toe.
If you can't heel n' toe, I can understand why you'd find a manual frustrating and need something to change gears for you.
Driving down Cheddar Gorge one day in the 1990s, I thought to myself, "If only I could brake and change gear smoothly at the same time. That heel-and-toe malarkey might be worth a try after all".If you can't heel n' toe, I can understand why you'd find a manual frustrating and need something to change gears for you.
It was ...and it still is.
Of course, for people who struggle with manual gearboxes, by all means pretend that manual gearbixes are universally terrible.
I'll tell you what there will be on threads like this, there will be many whose only experience will be with conventional h-gate syncromesh gearboxes, and based on that they will think they have particular skills.
For what it's worth, I think I can play top trumps in transmissions, my driving life started in the army (REME) in the 1970s, and for my sins, for @ 12 years I was the owner of a lorry with a crash gearbox. Effing horrible thing that was.
For those who think they can double declutch, honestly, doing it on a synco gearbox doesn't count.
And yes, I can heel and toe, I was shown it when in the army in the 70s. Struggling now to remember the car, I'm going to say 2 series BMW, I had mates with a 1602 and a 2002 (but not Tii) and I think it was the 2002. Very nice cars, they were.
--
Coincidentally I've just had an interesting 3 days with a new to us manual gearbox car, very much relevant to the thread I think. I'll post later, meanwhile it's sunny and I have my old 986 outside, which is perfectly set up for heel and toe.
I also learned how to use logarithmic tables and a slide rule. Neither see the light of day now.
I can see no logical reason to drive anything other than an automatic for day to day motoring on public roads. Fortunately I have one car with just one gear and the other has two.
heebeegeetee said:
I have my old 986 outside, which is perfectly set up for heel and toe.
Which presumably you'll find:heebeegeetee said:
Archaic and inefficient [and] frustrating...
I totally agree that the actual act of changing gear is a piece of pi**, not least in the car I've just bought, but that also leaves me puzzled over the fuss people make about manual changing.
Or perhaps your original comment was, as I suspect, some sort of weird nonsense to make a flex about how superior you think you are on the internet?I totally agree that the actual act of changing gear is a piece of pi**, not least in the car I've just bought, but that also leaves me puzzled over the fuss people make about manual changing.
Deep Thought said:
Gary C said:
Nomme de Plum said:
I can see no logical reason to drive anything other than an automatic for day to day motoring on public roads.
Really ?No reason at all ?
A manual does what you want, when you want it, how you want it, easily, quickly, efficiently, smoothly, simply, in a lighter device.
Of course a really heavy clutch in stop start traffic would not be logical, but for many of us, who have easy, light traffic daily and weekend driving a manual is a fine way to change gears.
Now, I would prefer a manual in any car (I would even buy an EV with a programmed torque curve and a gearbox if that was ever to be offered) so I acknowledge that I have a bias
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