Potholes - Porsche Driver Killed

[bigothunter]

Potholes are beyond a joke now - they are killing people. Or is the motorist or biker to blame?

Telegraph said:

Porsche driver ‘killed trying to swerve pothole’

Police believe 74-year-old motorist swerved to dodge crater and clipped BMW before losing control, hitting two other cars and a house.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/03/pothol...

[bigothunter]

Hoofy said:

Unsurprising. Every trip is like a fking Top Gear Challenge. Still, VED's gone up so this should be a problem of the past now.

VED is not a source of funds for road repairs.

[bigothunter]

HTP99 said:

Not excusing the state of the roads but to cause that much damage, including to a house, that Porsche must have been going some!!

In excess of the speed limit?

[bigothunter]

Nomme de Plum said:

911Spanker said:

So why are you presuming the speed was excessive? I thought you knew something but obviously not. Just jumping to conclusions it would seem.

Not at all I just look at the damage. That is a significant amount of kinetic energy being dissipated. I'm confident you understand It is just physics.

Speed limits are a guide not a target.

My goodness - NdP is a crash damage expert too

[bigothunter]

Zero Fuchs said:

Nomme de Plum said:

911Spanker said:

So why are you presuming the speed was excessive? I thought you knew something but obviously not. Just jumping to conclusions it would seem.

Not at all I just look at the damage. That is a significant amount of kinetic energy being dissipated. I'm confident you understand It is just physics.

Speed limits are a guide not a target.

My thoughts exactly from the photos.

When people say excessive, it's often interpreted as exceeding the limit but this was definitely excessive for the conditions (and possibly for the age of the driver) irrespective of the speed limit.

Very sad though, for all concerned.

Multiple variables make estimating speed almost impossible from the damage caused. Claim of excessive speed is bold indeed.

Take a look at the crash test video below. My guess (but nothing more) is that the impact speed was no more than 40mph.

Is 40mph too fast for our rural roads?

[bigothunter]

Wacky Racer said:

There were 4000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire in 1967.

Wonder if they have been fixed?

Folk lore as a youth was that "4000 holes" were 4000 dope smokers.

Nigel, London

[bigothunter]

Zero Fuchs said:

Accidents at 40mph, on a dry day, don't usually result in a car colliding with two other cars and then someone's house.

I don't think NdP or I were looking at the damage in isolation. We all know cars are designed to absorb as much energy as possible to optimise deceleration. This typical involves lots of damage. By the same token, how much momentum do you think you'd need to create that much damage after colliding with 2 cars, a house and end up a far distance from the house? 40nph?

Porsche driver swerved to avoid an unexpected pot hole. Appears he misjudged the manoeuvre. Whether wet or dry day is irrelevant.

Kinetic energy (0.5mv^2) not momentum (mv) is the important factor. From the damage incurred, I suspect impact speed did not exceed 40mph. There are multiple factors especially the effect of three-quarter impacts.

But we are merely speculating in the absence of reliable data.

[bigothunter]

Super Sonic said:

Nomme de Plum said:

There is only one person responsible and unfortunately he has died.

Nomme de Plum said:

PH seems to attract a few posters who like to point the finger. It is rarely so black and white in real life.

[bigothunter]

Unreal said:

The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. Have a look round.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...

So is the unfortunate Porsche driver guilty of Driving Without Due Care & Attention?

[bigothunter]

Unreal said:

bigothunter said:

Unreal said:

The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. Have a look round.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...

So is the unfortunate Porsche driver guilty of Driving Without Due Care & Attention?

God knows how you've come to that conclusion.

The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. These are facts. The precise circumstances of the accident will hopefully be revealed by the official investigation.

It's not a conclusion, it's a question. That's why I used a question mark which is clearly visible.

Your statement suggests that the driver exhibited insufficient observation. This can be interpreted as DWDCA.

[bigothunter]

Unreal said:

bigothunter said:

Unreal said:

bigothunter said:

Unreal said:

The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. Have a look round.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...

So is the unfortunate Porsche driver guilty of Driving Without Due Care & Attention?

God knows how you've come to that conclusion.

The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. These are facts. The precise circumstances of the accident will hopefully be revealed by the official investigation.

It's not a conclusion, it's a question. That's why I used a question mark which is clearly visible.

Your statement suggests that the driver exhibited insufficient observation. This can be interpreted as DWDCA.

I can't answer a question without knowing all the facts. I know some but not all of them. That's why I want to see the investigator's report.

My statement suggests nothing of the sort.

Then you need to be more careful with the written word.

[bigothunter]

Unreal said:

No, you need to work on your verbal reasoning skills.

Please try to make sense, dear boy

[bigothunter]

Our potholed roads are not fit for purpose. It's unreasonable to expect motorists to allow for these hazards without warning. In some places cones and even warning signs are placed. But in many others, there is nothing. The authorities are delinquent.

Potholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.

[bigothunter]

Bonefish Blues said:

bigothunter said:

Our potholed roads are not fit for purpose. It's unreasonable to expect motorists to allow for these hazards without warning. In some places cones and even warning signs are placed. But in many others, there is nothing. The authorities are delinquent.

Potholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.

There aren't enough cones for the roads of N Oxon. We just assume that they're going to be st and if there's a smooth bit, that's a bonus. Tall profile tyres on both cars helps with the odd one that's missed. TBF though, Fix My Street does get results.

There are plenty of cones available

[bigothunter]

braddo said:

I disagree, the A272 is still a great road to drive. That straight stretch where the accident happened has very little room for error, however.

ETA I won't be surprised if lower speed limits are implemented in that area pretty quickly.

Lower speed limits must be on the cards for pothole infested roads. 40 limit to replace NSL?

Banning overtaking must be high priority. Don't want to risk hitting potholes when roaring past.

Badly potholed roads could be closed apart from access to residents and service vehicles. 20 limit would suit.

Anything rather than sort out the bloody roads and make them fit for purpose, as we lurch towards 3rd world status

[bigothunter]

mcpoot said:

Donbot said:

Forester1965 said:

Donbot said:

I'm surprised people have so much difficulty scanning the road surface.

On a bike / motorbike you have to do it constantly if you don't want to fall off every time you go out.

How high is your eyeline riding a motorbike versus someone sat in a 911?

Obviously higher. But I've driven cars with low seating positions and can still see the road surface fine.

Can you tell me how I can get the x-ray vision you obviously have to see through the car in front to see the road surface.

You need to leave a 4 second gap

[bigothunter]

Nomme de Plum said:

Common Porpoise said:

Unreal said:

The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. These are facts. The precise circumstances of the accident will hopefully be revealed by the official investigation.

It definitely isn't clearly visible in a low car at NSL

So are you suggesting that if a car is so low that the driver cannot adequately see the road, including the surface thereof, ahead, that travelling at the NSL exhibits safe and careful driving?

I would contend if you can't see the road ahead for any reason then driving with a degree of caution is required.

Here is the pothole in question. Only the blind could fail to notice it

[bigothunter]

Nomme de Plum said:

bigothunter said:

Here is the pothole in question. Only the blind could fail to notice it

Did you just take that? Of course not it says December 2022. Only 16/17months ago.

Roads change you know. Even day to day and especially after prolonged wet spells. Have you been to the IoW recently?

Photo was posted by a different contributor. And yes, I noticed the date of December 2022 too.

Unreal said:

The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. Have a look round.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...

[bigothunter]

throt said:

I can't see the hole on this shot but, you can clearly see it could be a dodgy place to overtake if you time it incorrectly.

Entrance to the properties drive looks like it needs a spruce up

Click on the original photo for a large version

[bigothunter]

Bonefish Blues said:

Needs a pointy arrow please.

Left-clicking anywhere on the photo will do the trick