Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)

[MC Bodge]

On PH, traditionally, anybody who is not a hard-core, survival of the fittest, greed is good, get out of my way, EU-hating, British nationalist is considered to be a full-on communist.

There are signs that things are changing for the better, though.

[bitchstewie]

tangerine_sedge said:

To be fair, they've become very shy recently. After years of cheerleading the current st-show, many have declared that 'politics is broken'/they're 'politically homeless'/'FPTP is unfair'/Reform are the answer/etc etc across multiple threads. I suppose it's one way to distance themselves from the obvious train-wreck that this government has been and pretend that they were never part of it in the first place.

You forgot "I definitely didn't spend three years defending or excusing any of it I was just adding balance"

[S600BSB]

bhstewie said:

tangerine_sedge said:

To be fair, they've become very shy recently. After years of cheerleading the current st-show, many have declared that 'politics is broken'/they're 'politically homeless'/'FPTP is unfair'/Reform are the answer/etc etc across multiple threads. I suppose it's one way to distance themselves from the obvious train-wreck that this government has been and pretend that they were never part of it in the first place.

You forgot "I definitely didn't spend three years defending or excusing any of it I was just adding balance"

Haha. Really? Who said that??

[bitchstewie]

Just me paraphrasing the collective "oh no I never ever supported any of it" Jackanory.

[turbobloke]

Starmer being told what to do.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lab...

He should be getting used to it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/kei...

[S600BSB]

bhstewie said:

Just me paraphrasing the collective "oh no I never ever supported any of it" Jackanory.

They are funny aren’t they.

[Wombat3]

768 said:

BigMon said:

119 said:

I dont know any hard core political fan boys of any particular party expect for those in here who post consistently in all the political threads pushing their undying love for the Labour Party.

Certainly an eye opener!

Is this satire?

What about all the Eeyores on here forecasting doom and grass soup for dinner if Labour get into power (as opposed to the current marvellous iteration of the Conservative Party).

Have you missed those posts?

The Conservatives a st, so anyone who thinks Labour would be st (again) and quite possibly worse must be a Tory fan boy? That sums up the problem with our politics.

Everyone must have a label and belongs in one of only two boxes....obviously !

[turbobloke]

Wombat3 said:

768 said:

BigMon said:

119 said:

I dont know any hard core political fan boys of any particular party expect for those in here who post consistently in all the political threads pushing their undying love for the Labour Party.

Certainly an eye opener!

Is this satire?

What about all the Eeyores on here forecasting doom and grass soup for dinner if Labour get into power (as opposed to the current marvellous iteration of the Conservative Party).

Have you missed those posts?

The Conservatives a st, so anyone who thinks Labour would be st (again) and quite possibly worse must be a Tory fan boy? That sums up the problem with our politics.

Everyone must have a label and belongs in one of only two boxes....obviously !

An interesting point, particularly given Socialist Voice's long-standing stance on Starmer.
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/13254572...
It's as though they think he's a Tory.
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/17854558...

[biggbn]

turbobloke said:

Wombat3 said:

768 said:

BigMon said:

119 said:

I dont know any hard core political fan boys of any particular party expect for those in here who post consistently in all the political threads pushing their undying love for the Labour Party.

Certainly an eye opener!

Is this satire?

What about all the Eeyores on here forecasting doom and grass soup for dinner if Labour get into power (as opposed to the current marvellous iteration of the Conservative Party).

Have you missed those posts?

The Conservatives a st, so anyone who thinks Labour would be st (again) and quite possibly worse must be a Tory fan boy? That sums up the problem with our politics.

Everyone must have a label and belongs in one of only two boxes....obviously !

An interesting point, particularly given Socialist Voice's long-standing stance on Starmer.
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/13254572...
It's as though they think he's a Tory.
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/17854558...

Is this really news to you? His 'new' Labour is an insipid copy of Blair's new Labour which was a Tory tribute band, Thatcher's finest creation, in her own words, choice between Tory left and Tory right. Could not abide Blair, can't abide Starmer. Wonder what 'box' that puts me in?

[Cobracc]

biggbn said:

turbobloke said:

Wombat3 said:

768 said:

BigMon said:

119 said:

I dont know any hard core political fan boys of any particular party expect for those in here who post consistently in all the political threads pushing their undying love for the Labour Party.

Certainly an eye opener!

Is this satire?

What about all the Eeyores on here forecasting doom and grass soup for dinner if Labour get into power (as opposed to the current marvellous iteration of the Conservative Party).

Have you missed those posts?

The Conservatives a st, so anyone who thinks Labour would be st (again) and quite possibly worse must be a Tory fan boy? That sums up the problem with our politics.

Everyone must have a label and belongs in one of only two boxes....obviously !

An interesting point, particularly given Socialist Voice's long-standing stance on Starmer.
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/13254572...
It's as though they think he's a Tory.
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/17854558...

Is this really news to you? His 'new' Labour is an insipid copy of Blair's new Labour which was a Tory tribute band, Thatcher's finest creation, in her own words, choice between Tory left and Tory right. Could not abide Blair, can't abide Starmer. Wonder what 'box' that puts me in?

Why can't you abide Starmer..?

[119]

Cobracc said:

biggbn said:

turbobloke said:

Wombat3 said:

768 said:

BigMon said:

119 said:

I dont know any hard core political fan boys of any particular party expect for those in here who post consistently in all the political threads pushing their undying love for the Labour Party.

Certainly an eye opener!

Is this satire?

What about all the Eeyores on here forecasting doom and grass soup for dinner if Labour get into power (as opposed to the current marvellous iteration of the Conservative Party).

Have you missed those posts?

The Conservatives a st, so anyone who thinks Labour would be st (again) and quite possibly worse must be a Tory fan boy? That sums up the problem with our politics.

Everyone must have a label and belongs in one of only two boxes....obviously !

An interesting point, particularly given Socialist Voice's long-standing stance on Starmer.
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/13254572...
It's as though they think he's a Tory.
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/17854558...

Is this really news to you? His 'new' Labour is an insipid copy of Blair's new Labour which was a Tory tribute band, Thatcher's finest creation, in her own words, choice between Tory left and Tory right. Could not abide Blair, can't abide Starmer. Wonder what 'box' that puts me in?

Why can't you abide Starmer..?

Turning this around if I may, what qualities do you think he has that makes him so electable?

[anonymoususer]

119 said:

Turning this around if I may, what qualities do you think he has that makes him so electable?

He has trousers that fit him in the leg length.

[biggbn]

Cobracc said:

biggbn said:

turbobloke said:

Wombat3 said:

768 said:

BigMon said:

119 said:

I dont know any hard core political fan boys of any particular party expect for those in here who post consistently in all the political threads pushing their undying love for the Labour Party.

Certainly an eye opener!

Is this satire?

What about all the Eeyores on here forecasting doom and grass soup for dinner if Labour get into power (as opposed to the current marvellous iteration of the Conservative Party).

Have you missed those posts?

The Conservatives a st, so anyone who thinks Labour would be st (again) and quite possibly worse must be a Tory fan boy? That sums up the problem with our politics.

Everyone must have a label and belongs in one of only two boxes....obviously !

An interesting point, particularly given Socialist Voice's long-standing stance on Starmer.
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/13254572...
It's as though they think he's a Tory.
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/17854558...

Is this really news to you? His 'new' Labour is an insipid copy of Blair's new Labour which was a Tory tribute band, Thatcher's finest creation, in her own words, choice between Tory left and Tory right. Could not abide Blair, can't abide Starmer. Wonder what 'box' that puts me in?

Why can't you abide Starmer..?

He is another manifestation of a power over principles politician. He is just as much of a crowd chasing 'shopping trolley' as Boris ever was, but without the 'charisma'. I don't feel that things like the NHS will be safe in his hands, I don't trust him. He is as far from a conviction politician as anyone else, he is worryingly weak under verbal scrutiny, especially considering his previous career. Great at reading pre-prepared lines, but quickly becomes evasive, unsure and repetitive under pressure. He doesn't strike me as a leader who can unite people and seems to be in the position he is in by default, because the Tories are so appaling just now. And the fact I'd rather have this insipid, faux socialist, drab, uninspiring and untrustworthy man in charge shows just what I feel about the current captains of UK.inc. and how dreadful our political class currently is.

Hey, he may, and I hope he does, prove me wrong, but so far all he has really said is we will do the same as them but better....not really an alternative, just a vision of a more competent vanilla Party

[Randy Winkman]

turbobloke said:

Starmer being told what to do.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lab...

He should be getting used to it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/kei...

Makes a change from the Tufton Street crowd.

[MC Bodge]

biggbn said:

Hey, he may, and I hope he does, prove me wrong, but so far all he has really said is we will do the same as them but better....not really an alternative, just a vision of a more competent vanilla Party

He may try to ride a number of horses simultaneously, but I am intrigued by what some people believe that would be a better way to appeal to enough people in the right constituencies to win a UK election?

Radical ideas "left or right" would scare off large chunks of the voting public.

I would like to see some ideas, such as those discussed in "Radical Help", implemented on a large scale, but there are limits to what can he achieved within the existing systems. There is a lot of inertia built in.

"They are all the same" just gives more credit to appalling characters in the particularly awful current Tory party than they deserve

[BikeBikeBIke]

119 said:

Turning this around if I may, what qualities do you think he has that makes him so electable?

He's a competent administrator who will broadly make good decisions and appoint good ministers as far as he is able.

[JagLover]

MC Bodge said:

"They are all the same" just gives more credit to appalling characters in the particularly awful current Tory party than they deserve

That refers more to governing agenda than to presentation.

The current government has the fatal flaw for those of a centrist or left wing perspective of having to try to appeal to people of a right wing perspective to vote for them by pretending they will address their concerns. I imagine many will be happier once the government changes and we get a Blairite government who can be honest about that fact.

[W124]

JagLover said:

MC Bodge said:

"They are all the same" just gives more credit to appalling characters in the particularly awful current Tory party than they deserve

That refers more to governing agenda than to presentation.

The current government has the fatal flaw for those of a centrist or left wing perspective of having to try to appeal to people of a right wing perspective to vote for them by pretending they will address their concerns. I imagine many will be happier once the government changes and we get a Blairite government who can be honest about that fact.

True. Given this, I think Starmer has done quite well so far to hold his party vaguely together.

He doesn’t fill me with confidence, I’ll say that. And he is bland.

But it’s quite a feat - to keep Labour even on vaguely stable footing under this kind of pressure. Fair play to him.

My politics are really centrist, one nation Tory. He’s closer than Sunak.

[biggbn]

MC Bodge said:

biggbn said:

Hey, he may, and I hope he does, prove me wrong, but so far all he has really said is we will do the same as them but better....not really an alternative, just a vision of a more competent vanilla Party

He may try to ride a number of horses simultaneously, but I am intrigued by what some people believe that would be a better way to appeal to enough people in the right constituencies to win a UK election?

Radical ideas "left or right" would scare off large chunks of the voting public.

I would like to see some ideas, such as those discussed in "Radical Help", implemented on a large scale, but there are limits to what can he achieved within the existing systems. There is a lot of inertia built in.

"They are all the same" just gives more credit to appalling characters in the particularly awful current Tory party than they deserve

I don't think it gives any credit, it damns them all. I did say regardless of my feelings about him and this iteration of the Labour party, I'd rather see him in charge of the country than the current 24/7 clown show

[Wombat3]

BikeBikeBIke said:

119 said:

Turning this around if I may, what qualities do you think he has that makes him so electable?

He's a competent administrator who will broadly make good decisions and appoint good ministers as far as he is able.

That's very questionable given some of the things that have gone on under his leadership of both the CPS and then Labour.

Does anyone think that they know what he really believes ? About anything?

As to who he can appoint as ministers, its the one place I have some sympathy with him. He is surrounded by a very uninspiring lot indeed.

Some of the words that have been used to describe him in the last few posts do nor make for encouraging reading in the context of the next leader of the country..

Shopping trolley
Unsure
Evasive
Bland
Vanilla
Etc etc

Then there is the suggestion that it's good news that he's managed to keep a lid on the Labour party so that people won't realise what it's really about!

Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 8th May 08:20