So are Landlords finished?

[98elise]

cheesejunkie said:

98elise said:

As a matter of interest do you invest in anything, and how are you avoiding profiting from those less wealthy than yourself?

If you have cash savings you're getting a healthy 5% from those who rely on credit cards and loans to live.

Those who rely on credit cards? I'll admit I have mixed opinions. But I'm not relying on them.

What do you invest in, it's only fair you also answer?

I've a decent amount of savings and I'm CTO of an old startup (probably should no longer be called a startup but it's a small successful company) and a new startup where I'm taking a risk unlike some landlords. I've a sensible amount put in my pension and I've a wife on the NHS who I joke is my pension if it all goes tits up.

That's the most information you're getting.

I have already. I'm invested about 50/50 in property and stocks (mostly managed funds).

How do you feel about getting interest on your savings, which the bank created by lending your cash to people less wealthy than you? In essence it's just renting your cash to someone else.

There are plenty of people struggling with mortgage rises, but that's a nice bonus for those wealthy enough to have savings.

[Biggy Stardust]

cheesejunkie said:

I'm anti landlords claiming it's a tough job taking other's money.

Taking the money is easy- dealing with non-payment & the house being trashed is a lot harder & surprisingly common.

[BoRED S2upid]

cheesejunkie said:

Hope I'm not the wibbler being referred to as I'm not anti landlord.

I'm anti landlords claiming it's a tough job taking other's money.

I know some will refuse to get that and make another slur.

"All I want from a tenant"

You make it easy to criticise but I won't take the easy kick.

The crux of the current issue is not that there is no way of ensuring payment is made. it's that there's no way of ensuring landlords and tenants both honour a legally enforceable contract and landlords have their advantage being removed and have loud voices that get listened to more than their tenants by political parties. But if I'm the wibbler you're on about, I'm someone questioning the system that's defending your wealth. Which means I fully understand why you'd get annoyed at being accused of being a freeloader.

I also enjoy a joke. I've been a landlord, I'm not a hater. But some of you have a very high opinion of yourselves. You're not public servants, you're profiting from people with less wealth than you. Just accept your privilege instead of pretending you're hard done by and maybe some wibblers will stop commenting.

Profiteering from people with less wealth than you?

Seriously? You do know some people prefer to rent don’t you? They are not all penniless and being taken advantage of.

[nickfrog]

To me the word profiteer has connotations of illegality. Someone up thread mentioned envy and bitterness. I wasn't too sure but now it seems there is some at play here.

[cheesejunkie]

BoRED S2upid said:

Profiteering from people with less wealth than you?

Seriously? You do know some people prefer to rent don’t you? They are not all penniless and being taken advantage of.

Yes of course I know that.

Most are not penniless, just like their landlords. But only one is getting their investment paid for. In that two sided arrangement. Admit your advantage and get more respect. Pretend you don’t and don’t expect me to not annoy your pretences.

Again, for the hard of reading, I’m not anti landlord, I am anti bhing about having a hard life when you’re taking someone else’s money and I agree with any measure that forces it to be more regulated and more professional. That might mean pushing some two house landlords out of the market, who cares other than two house landlords?

@elise, good point. How I feel about getting interest on my savings? Fine. I don’t consider it in the same ballpark as extracting rent, and I work in startups rather than sitting on my fat hole watching money come in (not suggesting you are).

[BoRED S2upid]

cheesejunkie said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Profiteering from people with less wealth than you?

Seriously? You do know some people prefer to rent don’t you? They are not all penniless and being taken advantage of.

Yes of course I know that.

Most are not penniless, just like their landlords. But only one is getting their investment paid for. In that two sided arrangement. Admit your advantage and get more respect. Pretend you don’t and don’t expect me to not annoy your pretences.

Again, for the hard of reading, I’m not anti landlord, I am anti bhing about having a hard life when you’re taking someone else’s money and I agree with any measure that forces it to be more regulated and more professional. That might mean pushing some two house landlords out of the market, who cares other than two house landlords?

@elise, good point. How I feel about getting interest on my savings? Fine. I don’t consider it in the same ballpark as extracting rent, and I work in startups rather than sitting on my fat hole watching money come in (not suggesting you are).

So if it’s “more professional” you know massive housing corporations extracting rent from these poor people that’s ok in your mind?

[cheesejunkie]

BoRED S2upid said:

So if it’s “more professional” you know massive housing corporations extracting rent from these poor people that’s ok in your mind?

Yes.

If it’s more professional of course I do.

I’d also prefer a housing association extracting rent than you doing it which is your real question.

But at least you admitted it’s extracting rent.

[BoRED S2upid]

cheesejunkie said:

BoRED S2upid said:

So if it’s “more professional” you know massive housing corporations extracting rent from these poor people that’s ok in your mind?

Yes.

If it’s more professional of course I do.

I’d also prefer a housing association extracting rent than you doing it which is your real question.

But at least you admitted it’s extracting rent.

[cheesejunkie]

BoRED S2upid said:

I can’t argue with such well constructed criticism.

Here, I’m not actually anti you all and those box sets I’m planning to watch aren’t going to watch themselves. Chat tomorrow and if that includes arguing I’m up for trying to do it amicably, or at least falling out with a pretence of it being amicable.

[nikaiyo2]

cheesejunkie said:

Hope I'm not the wibbler being referred to as I'm not anti landlord.

I'm anti landlords claiming it's a tough job taking other's money.

I know some will refuse to get that and make another slur.

"All I want from a tenant"

You make it easy to criticise but I won't take the easy kick.

The crux of the current issue is not that there is no way of ensuring payment is made. it's that there's no way of ensuring landlords and tenants both honour a legally enforceable contract and landlords have their advantage being removed and have loud voices that get listened to more than their tenants by political parties. But if I'm the wibbler you're on about, I'm someone questioning the system that's defending your wealth. Which means I fully understand why you'd get annoyed at being accused of being a freeloader.

I also enjoy a joke. I've been a landlord, I'm not a hater. But some of you have a very high opinion of yourselves. You're not public servants, you're profiting from people with less wealth than you. Just accept your privilege instead of pretending you're hard done by and maybe some wibblers will stop commenting.

Sorry, No not at all aimed at you, not aimed at anyone in particular.

I will pass your message on to my mate that is 18 months into trying to evict a tenant that has paid I think 3 months rent in that time, that there is ways of ensuring payment is made. It’s pretty galling seeing him owed idk £15k, knowing he won’t see a penny of it and knowing the tenant will receive no sanction.

I honestly have no issue with being considered a free loader, literally nothing could bother me less.

What bothers me is the state of the rental market and the fact that we seem to have not learned the lessons of the last 7 or 8 years and many seem to want more legislation to harm landlords in the hope it will somehow improve matters for tenants.

It’s not like the current situation was not predicted, pretty much everyone involved with actually renting property knew the changes clamoured for would have these results.

[Biggy Stardust]

cheesejunkie said:

Most are not penniless, just like their landlords. But only one is getting their investment paid for. In that two sided arrangement. Admit your advantage and get more respect. Pretend you don’t and don’t expect me to not annoy your pretences.

Only one side is getting a return on their investment. Only one side is getting housed in this arrangement. It's a simple business transaction.

cheesejunkie said:

Again, for the hard of reading, I’m not anti landlord, I am anti bhing about having a hard life when you’re taking someone else’s money and I agree with any measure that forces it to be more regulated and more professional.

The problems in the PRS are caused by excessive regulation- the solution is not more regulation.

cheesejunkie said:

That might mean pushing some two house landlords out of the market, who cares other than two house landlords?

You don't like them so let them be screwed over. Very impartial of you.

cheesejunkie said:

@elise, good point. How I feel about getting interest on my savings? Fine. I don’t consider it in the same ballpark as extracting rent, and I work in startups rather than sitting on my fat hole watching money come in (not suggesting you are).

So what you do is acceptable but what others do is not? In the process thou art holier than us. Got it.

[Killboy]

Biggy Stardust said:

Killboy said:

But when you zoom out a little, when is not the right time to invest in property?

Right now for BTL- high interest rates, high property prices, hostile government, surplus of entitled tenants with massive government/council protection.

If you disagree then please confirm how many you will be buying soon.

I see you're a regular Warren Buffet type. If you can't read, I'm not sure what you're doing being a landlord.

[Killboy]

Pit Pony said:

I'm sorry, but a £500k house is not the sort of house I'd want to rent out.

Whats the difference?

[Killboy]

Murph7355 said:

As it's a piece of piss, makes one wonder why you aren't out there being the next Rigsby....

Hostile governments

[cheesejunkie]

Biggy Stardust said:

So what you do is acceptable but what others do is not? In the process thou art holier than us. Got it.

No, thou aren’t holy. Got it?

[cheesejunkie]

nikaiyo2 said:

Sorry, No not at all aimed at you, not aimed at anyone in particular.

I will pass your message on to my mate that is 18 months into trying to evict a tenant that has paid I think 3 months rent in that time, that there is ways of ensuring payment is made. It’s pretty galling seeing him owed idk £15k, knowing he won’t see a penny of it and knowing the tenant will receive no sanction.

I honestly have no issue with being considered a free loader, literally nothing could bother me less.

What bothers me is the state of the rental market and the fact that we seem to have not learned the lessons of the last 7 or 8 years and many seem to want more legislation to harm landlords in the hope it will somehow improve matters for tenants.

It’s not like the current situation was not predicted, pretty much everyone involved with actually renting property knew the changes clamoured for would have these results.

Ok, no harm no foul.

Interesting post but your mate’s problem would be reduced by a more regulated system than one that allows anyone with a few quid to rent out. That tennant would not get away with it.

Have had the hassle of bad tenants, I’m not without sympathy. But I can detach my personal problems from societal ones. Landlords running it as a sideline rather than limited companies have been decided by the government to be undesirable, I don’t disagree with that.

[Biggy Stardust]

cheesejunkie said:

Have had the hassle of bad tenants, I’m not without sympathy. But I can detach my personal problems from societal ones. Landlords running it as a sideline rather than limited companies have been decided by the government to be undesirable, I don’t disagree with that.

There is indisputable evidence- look what happened when Ireland did it. We could learn from their mistakes (ok, not when political ideology mixed with appeasing the angry & bitter is involved but you see the general gist) but we won't because politicians love to interfere, think they know best & have a baying mob of an electorate to please.

[Killboy]

98elise said:

It will be this sort of post...

Killboy said:

We the nation thank you for the invaluable service you bring! Perhaps we could get traction and clap from our rental doorsteps every Monday evening at 6pm.

As a matter of interest do you invest in anything, and how are you avoiding profiting from those less wealthy than yourself?

If you have cash savings you're getting a healthy 5% from those who rely on credit cards and loans to live.

Yeah, I provide an invaluable service to society

[NRS]

98elise said:

There was a point to those numbers back then. There is nothing to be gained from me discussing my current finances.

All of my rentals were bought around the same time and have similar figures. You can at least work out it's between 695 and 999.

They will be going up this year to get closer to market. I believe rent caps are inevitable and you don't want to be caught out with low rents, and therefore low rises.

So it’s not about the cost to you, it’s about being worried on profits later?

And you wonder why some are so anti-landlord?

cheesejunkie said:

Hope I'm not the wibbler being referred to as I'm not anti landlord.

I'm anti landlords claiming it's a tough job taking other's money.

I know some will refuse to get that and make another slur.

"All I want from a tenant"

You make it easy to criticise but I won't take the easy kick.

The crux of the current issue is not that there is no way of ensuring payment is made. it's that there's no way of ensuring landlords and tenants both honour a legally enforceable contract and landlords have their advantage being removed and have loud voices that get listened to more than their tenants by political parties. But if I'm the wibbler you're on about, I'm someone questioning the system that's defending your wealth. Which means I fully understand why you'd get annoyed at being accused of being a freeloader.

I also enjoy a joke. I've been a landlord, I'm not a hater. But some of you have a very high opinion of yourselves. You're not public servants, you're profiting from people with less wealth than you. Just accept your privilege instead of pretending you're hard done by and maybe some wibblers will stop commenting.

It’s very funny, being a landlord is awful, you get bad tenants so much, and just one bad tenant wipes out 10 years profits on a house. You also would earn the same or more elsewhere for a lot less work. It’s so bad that many of these landlords have decided to buy 5-10 houses, that’s how bad things are!

Private landlords also provide a vital service. They are decent people, although you do get the odd person who can be bad but that is the exception. However, this vital service absolutely cannot be provided by an HA or company. These companies are in it for profit which is the same reason as them but it is DIFEFERENT! Landlords should be encouraged as others providing the same service are bad, but not them.

The landlords of PH are also very generous. They could have charged a lot more for rent than they do. However, they also are monitoring the market price and keeping up with that. They also will increase their prices lots now in case of limits on rental price increases. This is not linked to their cost, so presumably is more profit. But they are being nice and keeping rents low while matching the market and increasing prices just in case.

Also renters who buy a house reduce the house supply by one putting rental prices up, but they don't vanish from the rental market. So there is the same number of people trying to rent even when some of them buy.

And landlords don’t put upwards price pressure on houses despite there being more buyers in the market competing for houses. But when there is more competition for rental properties due to a change in supply it will cause rents to rocket. Changes in prices due to competition strangely only occur in rentals, not house purchases. It’s an odd thing, but LL economic theory has proven it.

Probably I’ve missed a few more of the strange contractions we have here.

[Biggy Stardust]

NRS said:

It’s so bad that many of these landlords have decided to buy 5-10 houses, that’s how bad things are!

Many are selling up & getting out- how does that fit your rant?