EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Fastlane said:
I think you may be confusing Which? with What car? 
Not sure. Which are the consumer magazine that do tests on washing machines and things for retired folk aren't they? Pre Covid they were bullish on EVs and then when the price of electricity went up they switched their narrative, which seems logical given their readership is going to be budget focussed. But the survey they're extolling now they should have done before they first started covering EVs rather than an after thought half way through. GeniusOfLove said:
To add some fact to this thrillingly unique and penetrating discussion on EVs...
There are a couple of ORA Funky Cats on BCA with a £16k Buy Now price, 3,053 miles on one and 4,430 on the other. Both six months old 48KWH First Edition models.
The press have pissed all over them (the same press who scoffed at Japanese cars in the 80s because they were "less interesting" than a Sierra) at their £32k+ RRP but that's comedy value for a 6 month old car.
Reading the reviews and I think it's far less that they're less interesting but more they're just a little bit sThere are a couple of ORA Funky Cats on BCA with a £16k Buy Now price, 3,053 miles on one and 4,430 on the other. Both six months old 48KWH First Edition models.
The press have pissed all over them (the same press who scoffed at Japanese cars in the 80s because they were "less interesting" than a Sierra) at their £32k+ RRP but that's comedy value for a 6 month old car.
t...and mostly in the software.That really is an issue these days, and probably more so for an EV.
otolith said:
Both my sports cars have sub-300 mile ranges. The RX-8 that used to be my daily driver did too. Could not care less.
Indeed. But it didn’t take very long to re-fuel them. The majority of used EVs take much longer to re-charge. People look at the worse case scenario, not the best.
Can’t say I blame them. Last think I want to consider when on a long trip / holiday is where and when I’ll be charging.
tamore said:
MightyBadger said:
geoff buys cars…. that'll be balanced!Actually glee in his face when someone has misfortune with an EV.
MightyBadger said:
tamore said:
geoff buys cars…. that'll be balanced!
Who cares, I thought it was interesting. The thread is called EVs... nobody wants them. The story in the video is from a newspaper about a guy who had an EV and then didn't want it because it didn't do as expected and is taking the manufacturer to court.
Perfect for the thread title.
You could just ignore it and bury your head in the sand?
Don’t seem to recall him asking Range Rover drivers
romft123 said:
Pure pistonheads response. Meaningless.
Ev's or other non fossil fuels, are the future.
What about your two responses, not on topic were they! You just pilled on without responding to the articles I posted.Ev's or other non fossil fuels, are the future.
I have never said EV and other non fossil fuels were not the future? Nothing against EVs or those that use them but today made it obvious that some do think they are perfect and defend them to the hilt regardless of what study/case etc is posted.
It seems ok for brands and manufacturers to mislead people a bit, do the salesman ever say 'In the real world you are not going to get this kind of range' when signing up? I don't believe they do, average Joe Bloggs non PH car user isn't probably go and do much research either....they will take their word for it on the range and concentrate on how much a good deal the payments are probably, more fool them you say.
Everyone on here might be totally happy with their EV but many around the world are not, that's all.
DonkeyApple said:
What is mildly amusing regarding that story is that up u til a few years ago Which were pitching EVs to their elderly readership. That on its own is absolutely fine until you realise that Which exists to do extensive consumer tests of the products they pitch and the fact they've only recently gotten around to conducting a rather important test several years after they changed their tune in EVs makes a bit of mockery of their credentials. One would have expected Which, if he self proclaimed protector of the people and world's leading tester of consumer goods for the elderly to have at least done this basic research last decade before promoting EVs back then. 
It's as if they're a bunch of commercial arsed who just blow with the wind of their readership.
At least you can forgive them for aggressively punting diesels as they weren't to know about the cheat settings in the ECU bit you'd have thought they would have at least been arsed to check the spin cycle or how many freeview channels a electric utility transport has of whatever it is they do?
Or just spent 5 minutes on PH at some point over the last decade where actual users of EVs were publishing their data to help others decide if an EV will get them to Mogadishu and back.
That said, one would generally expect a typical Which reader to be getting pretty close to the manufacturer figures given that they'll just be cruising at 40 in the middle of the road everywhere but maybe the constant light flashing and Midsummer reruns on the car TV that canes the battery?
It's as if they're a bunch of commercial arsed who just blow with the wind of their readership.
At least you can forgive them for aggressively punting diesels as they weren't to know about the cheat settings in the ECU bit you'd have thought they would have at least been arsed to check the spin cycle or how many freeview channels a electric utility transport has of whatever it is they do?
Or just spent 5 minutes on PH at some point over the last decade where actual users of EVs were publishing their data to help others decide if an EV will get them to Mogadishu and back.
That said, one would generally expect a typical Which reader to be getting pretty close to the manufacturer figures given that they'll just be cruising at 40 in the middle of the road everywhere but maybe the constant light flashing and Midsummer reruns on the car TV that canes the battery?
Fastdruid said:
Reading the reviews and I think it's far less that they're less interesting but more they're just a little bit st...and mostly in the software.
That really is an issue these days, and probably more so for an EV.
They were massively over priced for what they are. They're closer to Invacar as a product and are knocked out in China for very little. t...and mostly in the software.That really is an issue these days, and probably more so for an EV.
the folks paying £30k for them are as mad as a box of frogs but priced appropriately their failings cease to be failings really.
They're a £12k car in China. In the U.K. there's an extra £20k of sticky little fingers grifting a turn at every point. Cut those fat digits off and just import and sell online and you'd have a fair offering. Although the dichotomy for EVs in the U.K. currently is that no one who is skint needs an EV and won't do for some years.
BricktopST205 said:
braddo said:
Let's say you have a driveway and so you can plug your car in at home whenever you want. How many times a year would you need more than 200 out of that 370-490 mile range?
I pick up my mother every 3 months from the airport that is over 200 miles there and back. She can only really go to Stansted because of her location.2 hours there. 5 minutes to stretch my legs at the drop and drive and straight back home.
It is very easy to rack up mileage when living out in the sticks as everything is far away.
clockworks said:
My point was that many, if not most, drivers have no idea how far they drive each week, how much fuel they use per mile, or how far their car will go on a full tank.
Range anxiety really shouldn't be an issue for them, as they have no "ICE numbers" to compare with.
Charging anxiety may or may not be a real problem for some. Depends on circumstances - home charging availability, distance driven in a day, etc. Can't deny that it's easier and faster to fill up with petrol than charging on a public charger.
For the majority of drivers, range would rarely be an issue if they thought about it themselves.
Not having any ICE numbers for comparison may be one of the triggers of range anxiety. As you say, many folk have never given range any thought. Now they have to get to grips with it if they are looking at moving to EV, making them uncomfortable as they don't know what they need. Add in all the negative stories pushed in the media and it's not surprising that folk are hanging back.Range anxiety really shouldn't be an issue for them, as they have no "ICE numbers" to compare with.
Charging anxiety may or may not be a real problem for some. Depends on circumstances - home charging availability, distance driven in a day, etc. Can't deny that it's easier and faster to fill up with petrol than charging on a public charger.
For the majority of drivers, range would rarely be an issue if they thought about it themselves.
Evanivitch said:
MightyBadger said:
And? The car in reference was an ID7, which is nearly 100 miles shorter range than claimed/publicised. I read it in an article, what is the difference? There will be no doubt that some people who 'pay da mumflies' that will take what manaufacturers claim as gospel, more fool them I suppose.
The manufacturers can only claim what the test result is, no more or less.Obviously buyer beware should apply and it is very easy to do a little research. Hopefully folk will wise up quickly.
Mikehig said:
There are quite a lot of ads for EVs on commercial radio. Most of them say something like "offering up to x miles of range". They don't qualify that "x" in any way, giving the impression that it's a realistic figure, not a result achieved under unrepresentative testing protocols. This apparent credibility may be compounded by people's awareness that advertising standards should prevent false claims. There's a case for obliging advertisers to add disclaimers, as for financial products, to flag up that the quoted range may be unachievable in the real world.
Obviously buyer beware should apply and it is very easy to do a little research. Hopefully folk will wise up quickly.
My EV is currently doing ~230 miles to a full charge compared to the wltp of 254 miles (air con on at all times, ambient temp makes by far the biggest difference to range). None of my petrol or diesel cars have ever done the MPG the manufacturer claimed, other than in very specific circumstances. Obviously buyer beware should apply and it is very easy to do a little research. Hopefully folk will wise up quickly.
I really don’t see the difference, it’s just another stick to bash EV’s with.
TheRainMaker said:
We now have four months' worth of 2024 registration figures.
BEV market share has gained 0.3% over 2023 and is now at 15.7%.
Something remarkable will have to happen for the percentage to reach 22% by the end of this year.
Ford quoted in the FT below. Want to make good returns for the next ten years? Buy all the 2025-2030 1.0l shopping trolley factory build slots you can, then wait for the overs offers to come rolling in. BEV market share has gained 0.3% over 2023 and is now at 15.7%.
Something remarkable will have to happen for the percentage to reach 22% by the end of this year.
https://www.ft.com/content/ff0f3966-0565-434b-81a7...
Ford is prepared to restrict the sale of petrol models in the UK in order to hit the country’s stretching EV targets, a move that is likely to push up prices for consumers, its European boss has warned.
He told a Financial Times summit that weak sales meant the company’s only option to avoid crippling fines under the UK’s new EV quota rules was to divert sales to other countries.
“We can’t push EVs into the market against demand. We’re not going to pay penalties. We are not going to sell EVs at huge losses just to buy compliance. The only alternative is to redirect ICE vehicles from the UK and sell them somewhere else.”
BricktopST205 said:
braddo said:
Let's say you have a driveway and so you can plug your car in at home whenever you want. How many times a year would you need more than 200 out of that 370-490 mile range?
I pick up my mother every 3 months from the airport that is over 200 miles there and back. She can only really go to Stansted because of her location.2 hours there. 5 minutes to stretch my legs at the drop and drive and straight back home.
It is very easy to rack up mileage when living out in the sticks as everything is far away.
king stupid.And I'm interested to read if Olivera needs that range if he were able to just plug his car in at home overnight whenever he needed to.
Newc said:
Ford quoted in the FT below. Want to make good returns for the next ten years? Buy all the 2025-2030 1.0l shopping trolley factory build slots you can, then wait for the overs offers to come rolling in.
https://www.ft.com/content/ff0f3966-0565-434b-81a7...
Ford is prepared to restrict the sale of petrol models in the UK in order to hit the country’s stretching EV targets, a move that is likely to push up prices for consumers, its European boss has warned.
He told a Financial Times summit that weak sales meant the company’s only option to avoid crippling fines under the UK’s new EV quota rules was to divert sales to other countries.
“We can’t push EVs into the market against demand. We’re not going to pay penalties. We are not going to sell EVs at huge losses just to buy compliance. The only alternative is to redirect ICE vehicles from the UK and sell them somewhere else.”
Realistically this was Ford’s only choice - kicking into the long grass by deferring to next year with increasingly onerous yearly ratios would just make no sense. Similarly, buying credits from competitors would leave a very bitter taste. They probably know that the popularity of the Puma will do a lot to save them as soon as they can roll out the EV version… I’d imagine the project team are feeling a fair bit of pressure right now! https://www.ft.com/content/ff0f3966-0565-434b-81a7...
Ford is prepared to restrict the sale of petrol models in the UK in order to hit the country’s stretching EV targets, a move that is likely to push up prices for consumers, its European boss has warned.
He told a Financial Times summit that weak sales meant the company’s only option to avoid crippling fines under the UK’s new EV quota rules was to divert sales to other countries.
“We can’t push EVs into the market against demand. We’re not going to pay penalties. We are not going to sell EVs at huge losses just to buy compliance. The only alternative is to redirect ICE vehicles from the UK and sell them somewhere else.”
braddo said:
And I'm interested to read if Olivera needs that range if he were able to just plug his car in at home overnight whenever he needed to.
A range potentially twice that of an EV is certainly a worthwhile consideration when weighing up pros and cons. It opens up, if one is so inclined, to jump in and go anywhere without nerdish planning.740EVTORQUES said:
BricktopST205 said:
I pick up my mother every 3 months from the airport that is over 200 miles there and back. ...
2 hours there. 5 minutes to stretch my legs at the drop and drive and straight back home.
...
Would an extra 15 minutes to charge be the end of the world?2 hours there. 5 minutes to stretch my legs at the drop and drive and straight back home.
...
Compared to the multiple hours per year spent at petrol stations versus plugging an EV in at home (+ 1 hour for occasional long trips in a year). With lower running costs and better reliability, it should be plain to see how EVs can fit easily into the daily lives of many millions of UK households.
The point is not that EVs are perfect for Bricktop nor perfect for every single person in the UK.
Chucky-egg said:
My EV is currently doing ~230 miles to a full charge compared to the wltp of 254 miles (air con on at all times, ambient temp makes by far the biggest difference to range). None of my petrol or diesel cars have ever done the MPG the manufacturer claimed, other than in very specific circumstances.
I really don’t see the difference, it’s just another stick to bash EV’s with.
I don't think anyone is saying that ICE cars get their manufacturer figures but it just doesn't really matter either. The issue with range already being low on an EV just exemplifies it. I really don’t see the difference, it’s just another stick to bash EV’s with.
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