NHS Pension - Any experts on here?
Discussion
Mrs 595Heaven has worked continuously in the NHS as a nurse for just over 33 years, and reaches 55 in November this year
Due to this period, part of her pension is the '1995 section' and it appears that she can elect to take (part of?) her pension at 55 (potentially this was availble since she turned 50) and continue working with no loss of benefits. To do this, she has to reduce her hours of work by 10% - This would be c. 3 hours as she only works 4 days per week.
Pension is c. £15k pa with £44k lump sum (or can up the lump sum to almost £80k with a reduced pension - that is very nice 911 territory
). The whole thing seems to good to be true to me. I'm wondering whether the sums are based on FTE rather than her actual hours of work?
Anyone else in this position. or with good knowledge of the NHS scheme care to comment?
Due to this period, part of her pension is the '1995 section' and it appears that she can elect to take (part of?) her pension at 55 (potentially this was availble since she turned 50) and continue working with no loss of benefits. To do this, she has to reduce her hours of work by 10% - This would be c. 3 hours as she only works 4 days per week.
Pension is c. £15k pa with £44k lump sum (or can up the lump sum to almost £80k with a reduced pension - that is very nice 911 territory
). The whole thing seems to good to be true to me. I'm wondering whether the sums are based on FTE rather than her actual hours of work? Anyone else in this position. or with good knowledge of the NHS scheme care to comment?
Has she downloaded a recent statement? If it’s like the teachers scheme which it probably is, then the amount of pension she’s accrued will be based on the FTE not her actual earnings. The most recent scheme of career average does however work on your actual earnings. She will have pension in more than one scheme. Taking her 1995 one at 55 is early ie will be reduced as the NPA is 60 from a quick google. If it’s like teachers pensions (I don’t know) then if you take one early you have to take them all early.
CoolHands said:
If it’s like teachers pensions (I don’t know) then if you take one early you have to take them all early.
Yeah be careful about this, my wife didn't capiche as the paperwork is naturally a tragedy and it meant having to stop work. For 24 hours before being re-employed again albeit without the ability to pay into the work pension...on the 95 scheme any nurse could elect to retire at 50 with pro-rota reductions in pension and lump sum. the so called "special classes" had a normal retirement age of 55 with no reductions. If expecting a long and healthy retirement then minimum lump sum and maximum monthly pension would be perhaps the best option. i believe that there was a 3rd option - slightly lower monthly, slightly higher lump sum but i dont know of anyone selecting this option so cant comment (and, indeed, may have just wished that into existence)
the regulations governing returning to NHS working were relaxed during Covid and may remain so - the requirements to reduce hours and take a minimum break from all NHS work were nullified This may need checking as my info will not necessarily be the most up to date. pension abatemnets definitely remain suspended so no curent need to keep an eye on earnings post retirement.
no idea about later revisions to the scheme but her trust will have a pensions officer buried somewhere in payroll - extremely helpful usually.
if returning to work within the NHS it is entirely possible that she will be able to continue paying in to a later scheme- nurses that i know who work with the NHS "bank" post retirement (via NHSProfessionals) certainly can. This wouldn't be available to a practitioner who had no other active NHS pension scheme however.
the regulations governing returning to NHS working were relaxed during Covid and may remain so - the requirements to reduce hours and take a minimum break from all NHS work were nullified This may need checking as my info will not necessarily be the most up to date. pension abatemnets definitely remain suspended so no curent need to keep an eye on earnings post retirement.
no idea about later revisions to the scheme but her trust will have a pensions officer buried somewhere in payroll - extremely helpful usually.
if returning to work within the NHS it is entirely possible that she will be able to continue paying in to a later scheme- nurses that i know who work with the NHS "bank" post retirement (via NHSProfessionals) certainly can. This wouldn't be available to a practitioner who had no other active NHS pension scheme however.
Edited by paulmakin on Saturday 18th May 21:14
Edited by paulmakin on Saturday 18th May 21:19
I’ve heard conversations amongst staff saying to take the lump sum at 55 and put it in savings.
But for a few hundred pounds it’s worth getting expert advice.
Sadly paying £400 a month into a pension in the NHS doesn’t give you access to advice on the scheme !
https://www.medifintech.co.uk/
Initial NHS Pension Report & Online Meeting - £650+VAT
This is a technical support service for individuals where we review your NHS pension record and project your pension benefits to your chosen retirement date. We will send you an easy-to-read report, which is followed up with an online call with one of our technical experts to discuss the analysis and address any questions you may have.
Our report projects your NHS pension to your chosen date of retirement. The projection considers factors such as Annual Allowance, Scheme Pays, Lifetime Allowance, as well as the McCloud remedy and Annual Allowance reassessment.
We can model any scenario, such as the impact of salary sacrifice lease car, reducing hours or taking on additional responsibilities
But for a few hundred pounds it’s worth getting expert advice.
Sadly paying £400 a month into a pension in the NHS doesn’t give you access to advice on the scheme !
https://www.medifintech.co.uk/
Initial NHS Pension Report & Online Meeting - £650+VAT
This is a technical support service for individuals where we review your NHS pension record and project your pension benefits to your chosen retirement date. We will send you an easy-to-read report, which is followed up with an online call with one of our technical experts to discuss the analysis and address any questions you may have.
Our report projects your NHS pension to your chosen date of retirement. The projection considers factors such as Annual Allowance, Scheme Pays, Lifetime Allowance, as well as the McCloud remedy and Annual Allowance reassessment.
We can model any scenario, such as the impact of salary sacrifice lease car, reducing hours or taking on additional responsibilities
projections are available to members - just request a forecast. they used to let you choose 3 potential retirement dates. also, check employee electronic employment record - theres a "My Benefits" section.
you certainly won't be able to input any new/proposed variables though, for that you will need external advice
you certainly won't be able to input any new/proposed variables though, for that you will need external advice
Edited by paulmakin on Saturday 18th May 21:47
Login into your NHS Electronic Staff Record Portal and look at your Total Rewards Statement which will give an indication of contributions, lump sum and pension under the different schemes.
Look at the NHSBSA Pensions Members Hub
Look at the NHSBSA Pensions Members Hub
595Heaven said:
The whole thing seems to good to be true to me.
paulmakin said:
projections are available to members - just request a forecast. they used to let you choose 3 potential retirement dates. also, check employee electronic employment record - theres a "My Benefits" section.
I'm around 25 years to retirement, logged into ESR for the first time about 18 months ago to checkout current pension values.....If it wasn't a government backed, organisational implemented scheme I would say the figures looks so unbelievable in any other situation you could question if you would actually see the sums promised actually paid out.I am amazed however people seem to leave the scheme with no education from anyone about just how good a scheme they are opting out of.
paulmakin said:
i was (am?) 95 scheme. when the first round of revisions came around there were advisory sessions provided as we had a choice to stick or switch.
advice at the time was that, although the new scheme was not as rewarding as the old, it was still very much worth having.
My basic understanding is the new scheme is carer average versus final salary, so for new starters will work out cheaper for the NHS as the final payouts will be lowers for the individual, however if at the point of entry into the the carer average scheme you are already on a high pay band, than there is very little difference in the payout.advice at the time was that, although the new scheme was not as rewarding as the old, it was still very much worth having.
Looking at my current figures, the I was in the 1995 scheme till 2015 with 10 years of contributions, and since 2015 in the new scheme. For me the new scheme pay out figure is already higher than my 1995 scheme projections, by the time I hit actual retirement the 2015 scheme figure is going to look silly. Either way, as mentioned earlier, the numbers are quite unbelievable.
gangzoom said:
Looking at my current figures, the I was in the 1995 scheme till 2015 with 10 years of contributions, and since 2015 in the new scheme.
I take it you know that you will have the choice of which scheme you were part of between 2015 and 2022 due to McCloud?I’m planning to go at 60, so sticking with the ‘95 scheme for those years is better for me.
595Heaven said:
Mrs 595Heaven has worked continuously in the NHS as a nurse for just over 33 years, and reaches 55 in November this year
Due to this period, part of her pension is the '1995 section' and it appears that she can elect to take (part of?) her pension at 55 (potentially this was availble since she turned 50) and continue working with no loss of benefits. To do this, she has to reduce her hours of work by 10% - This would be c. 3 hours as she only works 4 days per week.
Pension is c. £15k pa with £44k lump sum (or can up the lump sum to almost £80k with a reduced pension - that is very nice 911 territory). The whole thing seems to good to be true to me. I'm wondering whether the sums are based on FTE rather than her actual hours of work?
Anyone else in this position. or with good knowledge of the NHS scheme care to comment?
My wife has been in since 1988 and also reaches 55 soon. We've become aware of the 'Partial retirement' scheme in the last few months, which appears to be per your second paragraph. (It seemed to me the notion of it is to slow the exodus of stressed experienced staff)Due to this period, part of her pension is the '1995 section' and it appears that she can elect to take (part of?) her pension at 55 (potentially this was availble since she turned 50) and continue working with no loss of benefits. To do this, she has to reduce her hours of work by 10% - This would be c. 3 hours as she only works 4 days per week.
Pension is c. £15k pa with £44k lump sum (or can up the lump sum to almost £80k with a reduced pension - that is very nice 911 territory
). The whole thing seems to good to be true to me. I'm wondering whether the sums are based on FTE rather than her actual hours of work? Anyone else in this position. or with good knowledge of the NHS scheme care to comment?
Plugging her numbers into an online (NHS) spreadsheet it showed that she can reduce her hours now without detriment to her overall take home pay. Also what she will receive as a pension at 60 doesn't seem to be reduced much, compared to working right through at her current hours.
Her advice is to sign up to the online seminars that NHS pension run on a semi regular basis to find out more.
I get that, but it’s important stuff.
Your pension statement will provide both scenarios from this year, so at least that should help a bit.
Basically if you plan on retiring at State Pension age, you’re better having those years in the 2015 scheme. If you plan on retiring early 60s, it’s probably better to have them in the 1995 scheme.
Your pension statement will provide both scenarios from this year, so at least that should help a bit.
Basically if you plan on retiring at State Pension age, you’re better having those years in the 2015 scheme. If you plan on retiring early 60s, it’s probably better to have them in the 1995 scheme.
gangzoom said:
rossub said:
I take it you know that you will have the choice of which scheme you were part of between 2015 and 2022 due to McCloud?
I read your sentence and this is whats going in my head 
1) After 25yrs service but on a much reduced pension which they can't draw until they are age 50
2) At age 55 and draw their old pension, and their new 2015 pension but this is reduced for not waiting to retire at age 60
3) At 30yrs service (as above
4) At age 60 and draw all their old pension and draw all their 2025 pension in full
In 2015 they were made to move to the newer Career Average Related Earnings (CARE) pension scheme which wasn't as good a scheme as their previous 1987 scheme, whilst under the new scheme they paid less in each month but they will receive much less back as a pension.
However thanks to legal challenges that the judges and Fire Service made (and won) the pension changes were deemed discriminatory by age as officers in their last 10 yrs of service weren't affected, thereby discriminating against younger officers. Members are now allowed to have their pension from 2015 to 2022 (7 years) reverted back to the old scheme, but from 2022 everyone was put on the CARE scheme regardless of age or service.
When they come to retire they will be given the option of reverting those 7 yrs back to the old scheme, or leaving as the 2015 CARE. This is part of what is referred to as the 'Remedy'.
I imagine most will benefit from reverting it back. However with the police pension if reverting those years back they'll find that because they have paid less into it each month than if they had been allowed to remain on their old scheme, they will owe money to their pension scheme, I think typically £2,000 and this will need to be paid at the time or retiring.
Additionally they are claiming compensation for being moved to a scheme that discriminated against members, and are likely to receive what the legal people refer to as a 'hurt feelings' payment which might be around £2k. Some officers have already taken private action against the government and won, and have received about £3k each, however this was done via Leigh Day solicitors on a 'no win, no fee' basis, so having won they had to pay Leigh Day about £1,500. To confuse things further those officers are now suing the Police Federation for rolling over and accepting the pension changes and advising members NOT to challenge the government. If they win then the Federation will have to pay each officers legal costs and this is expected to financially ruin the Police Federation who are already valuing their assets to sell off to help fund this cost.
Quite a bizarre situation with the Federation being a body that helps officers, but gave them bad advise and now officers are suing their own Federation who will either fold, or have to be financially propped up by the government as police aren't allowed to be members of unions.
Edited by The Gauge on Monday 20th May 09:13
gangzoom said:
rossub said:
I take it you know that you will have the choice of which scheme you were part of between 2015 and 2022 due to McCloud?
I read your sentence and this is whats going in my head 
The cheeky bit being you paid like 2% or whatever under the old scheme, 7% (maybe it's more, it's the point not the specifics that matter,) and if you elect to take the old scheme (because the benefits are greater) then thanks for your extra contributions in the meantime, natch we're keeping them.
Whole thing is a typical cluster...
We definitely haven’t been paying less in with the 2015 NHS scheme. For lower Bands it’s actually more - at least partly due to recent revisions as a result of a forecast shortfall in funding in future years.
The NHS scheme is self funding - i.e. those paying in cover the cost of those in retirement. Albeit a large chunk of the pay in comes from employer contributions.
The NHS scheme is self funding - i.e. those paying in cover the cost of those in retirement. Albeit a large chunk of the pay in comes from employer contributions.
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