Car Park discrimination - no EV's allowed
Discussion
Pica-Pica said:
siremoon said:
Terminator X said:
"But industry figures have challenged the decision, pointing to research that indicates petrol cars are considerably more likely to catch fire than EVs."
Missing the point, once on fire you can't put them out.
TX.
That trope cop-out really boils my pee as it is blatant obfuscation. An EV battery fire is a low probability, high consequences risk. The decision to provide risk mitigation is not just about the likelihood of an occurrence, it is also about the consequences of an occurrence. A risk being low probability does not mean that no mitigation should be provided.Missing the point, once on fire you can't put them out.
TX.
Other factors the EV lobby pretend are not salient are that a fire in anything can cause a thermal runaway in an adjacent healthy EV just by raising the local ambient air temperature enough, the fires cannot be contained without specialist infrastructure, Li-ion battery fires release very toxic chemicals and they burn at very high temperatures which can compromise rebar in concrete structures. It was inevitable in my opinion that restrictions on parking them under buildings would be imposed at some point. My fear was it would take a tragedy first so full marks here for trying to prevent that rather than reacting to it afterwards.
The history of transport is littered with regulation changes which followed tragedies. I think it inevitable at some point that a building somewhere in the world will be compromised by an EV fire under it, or an EV fire in a confined space like an underground car park will cause significant casualties. Saying told you afterwards will be no comfort to those affected but if such an event does happen then I hope the EV lobby chokes on its sanctimony because it is a real and foreseeable risk.
Most normal companies would just restrict the parking of EV's to elsewhere in the car park to mitigate the risk rather than blow a small fortune on upgrading the fire protection for the 1 in 43 chance an EV might park in that particular bit of the car park.
LB's rant is very good, if only our public officials were that honest and direct.
98elise said:
SteveKTMer said:
Responder.First said:
Acuity30 said:
Damage control after Luton airport car park was burnt to a crisp thanks to the hybrid battery on an Evoke catching fire
I have heard that it was a range rover sport diesel hybrid, seen video footage as well.However there has been confirmation from the fire service it was a diesel vehicle with wiring fault.
Andrew Hopkinson, chief fire officer for Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service, said the fire at Luton Airport was thought to have started with a diesel vehicle.
“We don’t believe it was an electric vehicle,” he said.
“It’s believed to be diesel-powered, at this stage all subject to verification. And then that fire has quickly and rapidly spread.”
Edited by Responder.First on Monday 6th May 14:18
The registration is E10 EFL if you want to check.
Edited by 98elise on Monday 6th May 14:51
GT9 said:
Responder.First said:
Oh you mean like LPG, don't recall there being an issue with that exploding or starting fires.
If I recall Blairs Labour forced people into Diesel instead with crazy RFL and other tax incentives, same cars they now want to ban from cities.
Hydrogen is hydrocarbon with the carbon removed (obvs).If I recall Blairs Labour forced people into Diesel instead with crazy RFL and other tax incentives, same cars they now want to ban from cities.
The presence of carbon does three crucial things:
It slows the flame speed.
It massively increases the volumetric energy density.
It significantly increases the molecule size.
If you don't get what these things imply for engineering and safety, that's fine, but do not make the mistake of thinking hydrogen is 'just like' a hydrocarbon.
Hydrogen is stored at 10,000 psi in a fuel cell car, that's 700 bar.
Twice the pressure that collapsed that sub on its way to the Titanic.
This is necessary to achieve a volumetric energy density that, despite the pressure, is still effectively 10 times lower than petrol.
Now and go and look at what pressure LPG is stored at.
700 bar is near the physical limit of how far the gas can be compressed before it won't compress any more.
Regardless of how much pressurise you use, it won't liquify unless cooled to -253 C.
When you combine 700 bar pressure with the smallest known molecule, a flammability range wider than any hydrocarbon and a tenfold increase in flame speed, what you have is one of the most effective destruction devices known.
In an explosion, if the heat doesn't get you, the pressure wave will take care of that, crushing lungs and any other cavities in your body you hold dear.
For any given amount of energy stored it's far more destructive than hydrocarbon explosions due to the rate of energy release.
Combine that with its ability to find leakage paths and ignition sources that is second to none and well, put it this way, if you take liberties or cut corners, it's usually game over.
Maybe we are doing it wrong.
GT9 said:
FMOB said:
Don't forget all the shrapnel as the car disintegrates in the explosion. The terrorists are going to love these things, instant car bomb on wheels, just add detonator.
Detonator being a 2016 diesel (non-hybrid!) Land Rover parked amongst a dozen or so fuel cell cars in an underground car park? Probably capable of demolishing an entire building in an instant, but fortunately, a fairly implausible scenario in the UK given fuel cell car sales and hydrogen availability for cars are both on life support.
Oh, and the ban on hydrogen in tunnels which I’m pretty sure will be extended to any public enclosed space.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2544ndvkepo
Fire Service said on the news they think it was an electric vehicle this time.
Fire Service said on the news they think it was an electric vehicle this time.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff