Garden Tax on the cards?

[Randy Winkman]

Jayzee said:

So, high-value apartments wirhout gardens aren’t affected? Get lost, this is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard so far this year

I assume that if this happens it wont be simply based on the size of the garden. That's just the newspaper headline thing to make people look.

[Pit Pony]

vaud said:

RustyMX5 said:

I have to pay a £50 surcharge every year if I want the garden waste bin taken away by the council. (Bucks)

£53 in Bradford, for 1 bin, an extra £40 for 2.

Oh and now they are closing the tips so you have to drive 9 miles to drop anything there...

There are 3 solutions.

Burn it.
Fly Tip it
Compost it.

Our green bins go to a commercial composting facility.

So someone is making money from it.

[vaud]

Pit Pony said:

There are 3 solutions.

Burn it.
Fly Tip it
Compost it.

Our green bins go to a commercial composting facility.

So someone is making money from it.

Out of all the taxes/charges, I actually don't mind this one.

[98elise]

Randy Winkman said:

Jayzee said:

So, high-value apartments wirhout gardens aren’t affected? Get lost, this is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard so far this year

I assume that if this happens it wont be simply based on the size of the garden. That's just the newspaper headline thing to make people look.

It would be a land value tax, which would include the land and buildings that sit on it.

The last time it was an election policy it was quite popular with some PH members. One benefit apparently is that it's hard to avoid. Personally I don't think you should justify more taxes on the basis they are hard to avoid!

We're already being hammered by taxes.

[oyster]

98elise said:

Randy Winkman said:

Jayzee said:

So, high-value apartments wirhout gardens aren’t affected? Get lost, this is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard so far this year

I assume that if this happens it wont be simply based on the size of the garden. That's just the newspaper headline thing to make people look.

It would be a land value tax, which would include the land and buildings that sit on it.

The last time it was an election policy it was quite popular with some PH members. One benefit apparently is that it's hard to avoid. Personally I don't think you should justify more taxes on the basis they are hard to avoid!

We're already being hammered by taxes.

The problem is we have vast millions of non-working people milking the teat of the public purse. Most of these are retired. Whether it's double-digit pay rises. Tax breaks. Free social care. etc etc.
That group is getting bigger and bigger.

We simple can't afford to keep lumping the taxes onto those who work hard. Taxes need to be spread more fairly.

[98elise]

oyster said:

98elise said:

Randy Winkman said:

Jayzee said:

So, high-value apartments wirhout gardens aren’t affected? Get lost, this is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard so far this year

I assume that if this happens it wont be simply based on the size of the garden. That's just the newspaper headline thing to make people look.

It would be a land value tax, which would include the land and buildings that sit on it.

The last time it was an election policy it was quite popular with some PH members. One benefit apparently is that it's hard to avoid. Personally I don't think you should justify more taxes on the basis they are hard to avoid!

We're already being hammered by taxes.

The problem is we have vast millions of non-working people milking the teat of the public purse. Most of these are retired. Whether it's double-digit pay rises. Tax breaks. Free social care. etc etc.
That group is getting bigger and bigger.

We simple can't afford to keep lumping the taxes onto those who work hard. Taxes need to be spread more fairly.

Retired people pay council tax like everyone else, so how does a land value tax make things fairer? Theres no link between being economically unproductive and land values, let alone how local services are paid for.

If you think retired/non working people are the problem then you should be advocating higher taxes for non working people. Maybe a non productive workers tax.

I'm one of those retirees by the way. I stopped working when the government increased taxes to the extent that it wasn't worth going to work anymore!

[s1962a]

98elise said:

I'm one of those retirees by the way. I stopped working when the government increased taxes to the extent that it wasn't worth going to work anymore!

There may be more joining you in the near future. Lets see what Labour have instore for the "rich" PAYE additional rate taxpayers.

[alscar]

oyster said:

The problem is we have vast millions of non-working people milking the teat of the public purse. Most of these are retired. Whether it's double-digit pay rises. Tax breaks. Free social care. etc etc.
That group is getting bigger and bigger.

We simple can't afford to keep lumping the taxes onto those who work hard. Taxes need to be spread more fairly.

Seems a bit unfair on those that did work hard all their working life and paid their fair share of tax.

[oyster]

alscar said:

oyster said:

The problem is we have vast millions of non-working people milking the teat of the public purse. Most of these are retired. Whether it's double-digit pay rises. Tax breaks. Free social care. etc etc.
That group is getting bigger and bigger.

We simple can't afford to keep lumping the taxes onto those who work hard. Taxes need to be spread more fairly.

Seems a bit unfair on those that did work hard all their working life and paid their fair share of tax.

Define fair share of tax?

I've accumulated £1m in house equity through no effort of my own. Tax free.
What tax share have I paid as a result?

[alscar]

oyster said:

Define fair share of tax?

I've accumulated £1m in house equity through no effort of my own. Tax free.
What tax share have I paid as a result?

Absolutely none on your house equity obviously but I assume you work ?

[oyster]

alscar said:

oyster said:

Define fair share of tax?

I've accumulated £1m in house equity through no effort of my own. Tax free.
What tax share have I paid as a result?

Absolutely none on your house equity obviously but I assume you work ?

I do work. But here's the nub of the problem.

When I can 'earn' £100k a year tax free from asset inflation, why would I bust a gut to earn £100k by working and have the Treasury take a whole bunch of it?

The balance is wrong. Too much tax on work and investment. Not enough on personal assets.

[W12GT]

oyster said:

alscar said:

oyster said:

Define fair share of tax?

I've accumulated £1m in house equity through no effort of my own. Tax free.
What tax share have I paid as a result?

Absolutely none on your house equity obviously but I assume you work ?

I do work. But here's the nub of the problem.

When I can 'earn' £100k a year tax free from asset inflation, why would I bust a gut to earn £100k by working and have the Treasury take a whole bunch of it?

The balance is wrong. Too much tax on work and investment. Not enough on personal assets.

Be careful what you wish for.

For a start, you’ve been in a rising property market. That £100k a year you quote isn’t guaranteed to continue. In fact it could go negative if heavy taxes start to be applied. Property market slips and your £1m could become £750k or £500k or ???k.

Plus of course, earning / having an income gives you free £ to spend. The money in the house doesn’t, unless you free it up by mortgage / loan / equity release but that’s costly so wasting that equity.

There are so many other factors to consider; you’ve actually paid tax on any work you’ve had done, also on the income you received to pay for materials and work.

[Killboy]

98elise said:

I'm one of those retirees by the way. I stopped working when the government increased taxes to the extent that it wasn't worth going to work anymore!

I thought you were hard at work providing invaluable landlording services to those that would otherwise be homeless?

[Mr Whippy]

oyster said:

alscar said:

oyster said:

Define fair share of tax?

I've accumulated £1m in house equity through no effort of my own. Tax free.
What tax share have I paid as a result?

Absolutely none on your house equity obviously but I assume you work ?

I do work. But here's the nub of the problem.

When I can 'earn' £100k a year tax free from asset inflation, why would I bust a gut to earn £100k by working and have the Treasury take a whole bunch of it?

The balance is wrong. Too much tax on work and investment. Not enough on personal assets.

You didn’t ‘earn’ anything.

It’s a capital gain. And only free of tax if your primary residence.
Thus you can only take that gain if you downgrade your home.
If it’s not your primary residence you’ll pay ~30pc tax!


Maybe we need to remove primary residence allowance on property over 85th percentile for the area?

Then mark to market tax return each year?

Then your £1,000,000 house gaining £50,000 a year will be costing you £17,000 in tax each year


I won’t complain either. It’s got my vote!

[Flumpo]

hidetheelephants said:

TUS373 said:

Excuse me for putting this in the Lounge, but more people will see it if kept here rather than in the politics area.

I was not aware of this, but just told by my mother-in-law (who has far more time than me to listen to the news) that Labour are considering changing the way council tax is managed, by including a factor about how big a house's garden is. I think this must be a seed (excuse the pun) from the Corbyn days, but I gather that is already being used in Wales. It is said that councils will survey properties by drone, so if you have a sizeable garden (and I don't know what that means in real terms) you pay more tax.

There will be people way more aware than I about this on here, and no doubt those who may say "well, those that live in posh houses should pay more", but is this really likely to be a thing in the future, after a general election?

Why would they fk about with drones? All the data needed is on the land registry. An LVT might restrain the bonkers land values the UK has, although IHT exemption of farmland is just as bad at distorting value.

That’s a shame. I was looking forward to the sort of people who love those dj audit videos and I can film what I want types, suddenly losing their st when capita have been employed to fly drones over their houses.

[Muddle238]

Lotusgone said:

It's a fair bet that taxes will go up under a Labour government, the question is where they will be applied.

My fear is that they will crank up road tax for petrol & diesel, abolish the pre-March 2006 levels and tax all those polluting classics.

Not that you should trust any political party, but even the Greens who are at the batstcrazy end of the spectrum when it comes to cars, have said that they wouldn't tax classics.

Not that that's a viable reason to vote Green, of course. They're a bunch of lunatics.

[Pit Pony]

oyster said:

alscar said:

oyster said:

The problem is we have vast millions of non-working people milking the teat of the public purse. Most of these are retired. Whether it's double-digit pay rises. Tax breaks. Free social care. etc etc.
That group is getting bigger and bigger.

We simple can't afford to keep lumping the taxes onto those who work hard. Taxes need to be spread more fairly.

Seems a bit unfair on those that did work hard all their working life and paid their fair share of tax.

Define fair share of tax?

I've accumulated £1m in house equity through no effort of my own. Tax free.
What tax share have I paid as a result?

The irritating thing is that you can accumulate £1m in house equity and have no tax to pay, but in owning 3 smaller houses, (the smallest of which I live in), I have accumulated £300k through no effort of my own, but £100k of that would be subject to capital gains tax.
If I'd invested in the house I live in rather than 2 houses that someone else lives in, no capital gains tax.

Edited by Pit Pony on Thursday 16th May 06:47

[markh1973]

Mr Whippy said:

oyster said:

alscar said:

oyster said:

Define fair share of tax?

I've accumulated £1m in house equity through no effort of my own. Tax free.
What tax share have I paid as a result?

Absolutely none on your house equity obviously but I assume you work ?

I do work. But here's the nub of the problem.

When I can 'earn' £100k a year tax free from asset inflation, why would I bust a gut to earn £100k by working and have the Treasury take a whole bunch of it?

The balance is wrong. Too much tax on work and investment. Not enough on personal assets.

You didn’t ‘earn’ anything.

It’s a capital gain. And only free of tax if your primary residence.
Thus you can only take that gain if you downgrade your home.
If it’s not your primary residence you’ll pay ~30pc tax!


Maybe we need to remove primary residence allowance on property over 85th percentile for the area?

Then mark to market tax return each year?

Then your £1,000,000 house gaining £50,000 a year will be costing you £17,000 in tax each year


I won’t complain either. It’s got my vote!

He put 'earn' in inverted commas for a reason.

Where have you got 30% CGT on property sales from?

[NRS]

W12GT said:

Be careful what you wish for.

For a start, you’ve been in a rising property market. That £100k a year you quote isn’t guaranteed to continue. In fact it could go negative if heavy taxes start to be applied. Property market slips and your £1m could become £750k or £500k or ???k.

Plus of course, earning / having an income gives you free £ to spend. The money in the house doesn’t, unless you free it up by mortgage / loan / equity release but that’s costly so wasting that equity.

There are so many other factors to consider; you’ve actually paid tax on any work you’ve had done, also on the income you received to pay for materials and work.

That’s a lot of the issue though, money has gone into assets capital free, and then just sits there doing nothing as you say. We’re not investing in real growth, we’re investing in holding wealth. So something away from wages and more aimed at reducing the benefit of sitting on stuff that increases in value more than wages is a good thing, and will increase growth too.

[Mr Whippy]

markh1973 said:

He put 'earn' in inverted commas for a reason.

Where have you got 30% CGT on property sales from?

It might be in inverted commas but then he goes on to make out it’s a problem and should be somehow assessed.

I said ~ 30%, isn’t it 28% currently for higher earners on resi property?