Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
MaxFromage said:
CoolHands said:
That’s rubbish, the number of state schools in England is huge, current demographics of children is falling, and quite large variations year to year anyway.
Plus nearly every independent school has now closed / getting rid of teachers pension scheme in favour of crappy private pension saving them a bundle in staffing costs.
Apologies, but it's quite clear from your last post and this, that you're out of your depth and have no idea of the current pressures in the education sector. You do understand demographics are only a small part of the puzzle? Do you understand what's happening with recruitment in the sector? The average age of teachers etc etc.Plus nearly every independent school has now closed / getting rid of teachers pension scheme in favour of crappy private pension saving them a bundle in staffing costs.
Ask anyone who knows anything about it, and they'll tell you it's a monumentally stupid idea.
MC Bodge said:
The next government is about far more than well-off people worrying about an increase in school fees (although I'm sure that the people of Ukraine and Gaza are wearig ribbons to show solidarity with your plight).
It should be. But what, pray tell, are the bigger differentiating policies that this particular bunch of muppets have that see those things being addressed?What's his policy on Ukraine and Gaza that will see those issues resolved (or even the dial moved one bit on improvement)?
MC Bodge said:
The next government is about far more than well-off people worrying about an increase in school fees (although I'm sure that the people of Ukraine and Gaza are wearig ribbons to show solidarity with your plight).
I admire your optimism.Assuming it's a Labour government then all they've shown us so far is some ill thought out and muddled nonsense.
Murph7355 said:
MC Bodge said:
The next government is about far more than well-off people worrying about an increase in school fees (although I'm sure that the people of Ukraine and Gaza are wearig ribbons to show solidarity with your plight).
It should be. But what, pray tell, are the bigger differentiating policies that this particular bunch of muppets have that see those things being addressed?What's his policy on Ukraine and Gaza that will see those issues resolved (or even the dial moved one bit on improvement)?
Labour has made itself the Party fixated on independent education, their ideas will fix nothing worthwhile but the law of unintended consequences is waiting for them as usual.
turbobloke said:
Labour has made itself the Party fixated on independent education, their ideas will fix nothing worthwhile but the law of unintended consequences is waiting for them as usual.
The only people fixated on this are the usual blow-hards on PH, literally no one outside of PH is talking about this.We could be talking about the number of teachers leaving state education every day (newly qualified teachers leaving after a couple of years and going to work in Aldi because they're paid better), or the recent announcement by SKS to replace those teachers and re-invigorate state education, but PH seems fixated on a relatively small number of people having to pay appropriate taxes.
turbobloke said:
Murph7355 said:
MC Bodge said:
The next government is about far more than well-off people worrying about an increase in school fees (although I'm sure that the people of Ukraine and Gaza are wearig ribbons to show solidarity with your plight).
It should be. But what, pray tell, are the bigger differentiating policies that this particular bunch of muppets have that see those things being addressed?What's his policy on Ukraine and Gaza that will see those issues resolved (or even the dial moved one bit on improvement)?
Labour has made itself the Party fixated on independent education, their ideas will fix nothing worthwhile but the law of unintended consequences is waiting for them as usual.
I doubt 5% of the population are even aware or care this proposed policy. This isn't headline stuff.
tangerine_sedge said:
turbobloke said:
Labour has made itself the Party fixated on independent education, their ideas will fix nothing worthwhile but the law of unintended consequences is waiting for them as usual.
The only people fixated on this are the usual blow-hards on PH, literally no one outside of PH is talking about this.We could be talking about the number of teachers leaving state education every day (newly qualified teachers leaving after a couple of years and going to work in Aldi because they're paid better), or the recent announcement by SKS to replace those teachers and re-invigorate state education, but PH seems fixated on a relatively small number of people having to pay appropriate taxes.
I suspect it’s just a small bubble of people that think it’s a bigger deal than it is. Hardly anyone cares. This issue is focused in one area, where there are a lot of private schools. Its a southern provincial issue, outside that in the rest of the country where there's far fewer private schools it's a non issue.
Let's see how many election flyers, adverts, campaign speeches feature this issue.
Let's see how many election flyers, adverts, campaign speeches feature this issue.
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: It's the people you'd expect who seem unable to show empathy for anyone struggling because that would be "emotive" but suddenly when it's VAT on school fees they're practically crying with rage at those poor poor people.
Imagine my surprise.
The real issue here isn't the relatively small handful of people facing increased fees, it's the way that state education has been damaged by years of under-funding. Demoralised and underpaid teachers, buildings falling apart and the increase in the use of TAs instead of actual teachers.Imagine my surprise.
tangerine_sedge said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: It's the people you'd expect who seem unable to show empathy for anyone struggling because that would be "emotive" but suddenly when it's VAT on school fees they're practically crying with rage at those poor poor people.
Imagine my surprise.
The real issue here isn't the relatively small handful of people facing increased fees, it's the way that state education has been damaged by years of under-funding. Demoralised and underpaid teachers, buildings falling apart and the increase in the use of TAs instead of actual teachers.Imagine my surprise.
The underlying point about VAT on PE is that its by far from guaranteed to achieve a positive outcome in any sphere (and if it does the gains will be marginal at the cost of unnecessary disruption and likely increased pressures in the state system).
It's therefore a stupid policy to even be thinking about as a priority if your objective is to "fix the country".
If it's indicative of what we can expect from a Labour government then we aren't going to get very far.
Just as you can rave about how it affects very few people (but actually the effects may well be felt on a much wider basis than that), so it's being argued that it's going to achieve very little that's positive either...and may well not be that good.
So what's the point of doing it?
Edited by Wombat3 on Sunday 19th May 09:55
tangerine_sedge said:
turbobloke said:
Labour has made itself the Party fixated on independent education, their ideas will fix nothing worthwhile but the law of unintended consequences is waiting for them as usual.
The only people fixated on this are the usual blow-hards on PH, literally no one outside of PH is talking about this.We could be talking about the number of teachers leaving state education every day (newly qualified teachers leaving after a couple of years and going to work in Aldi because they're paid better), or the recent announcement by SKS to replace those teachers and re-invigorate state education, but PH seems fixated on a relatively small number of people having to pay appropriate taxes.
Why is VAT on one particular type of education an appropriate tax? Surely it should apply to all education or none.
Why not apply it to universities as well? It would generate much more cash for state education. People that go to uni will earn more then those that don't so why should that advantage still bet a tax break?
You only have to look at the voting intentions of students to see why!
98elise said:
Why is VAT on one particular type of education an appropriate tax? Surely it should apply to all education or none.
Because private education is a an optional choice because you’ve got more money than everyone else. State education is not. 98elise said:
Why not apply it to universities as well? It would generate much more cash for state education. People that go to uni will earn more than those that don't so why should that advantage still bet a tax break?
It probably should. My opinion is that the university sector is bloated and broken anyway, shrinking it down a bit probably wouldn’t be the worst thing but it’s a massive political landmine to tread on as it looks like you’ve limiting education options. Back on Kier, his appearance on Sunday Kitchen seems to be going a lot better than Rishis car crash on Loose Women. Coming across well.
You only have to look at the voting intentions of students to see why!
MiniMan64 said:
98elise said:
Why is VAT on one particular type of education an appropriate tax? Surely it should apply to all education or none.
Because private education is a an optional choice because you’ve got more money than everyone else. State education is not. 98elise said:
Why not apply it to universities as well? It would generate much more cash for state education. People that go to uni will earn more than those that don't so why should that advantage still bet a tax break?
It probably should. My opinion is that the university sector is bloated and broken anyway, shrinking it down a bit probably wouldn’t be the worst thing but it’s a massive political landmine to tread on as it looks like you’ve limiting education options. Back on Kier, his appearance on Sunday Kitchen seems to be going a lot better than Rishis car crash on Loose Women. Coming across well.
You only have to look at the voting intentions of students to see why!
I didnt see all of it so i must have missed something juicy!
119 said:
What happened on the Loose Women interview?
I didnt see all of it so i must have missed something juicy!
It was all sound bites, repeated practiced answers and ignoring the question. My view and I’m sure it’s won’t be shared by some here, is that Kier came across as a much more honest personable this morning. I didnt see all of it so i must have missed something juicy!
Edited by MiniMan64 on Sunday 19th May 11:23
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Sounds like Labour style envy. Probably not though. University is an optional choice, why not tax that down to Labour's equality-in-mediocrity' mantra? Optional choice doesn't really cut it as a reason, it's about placating Labour's rumpies who blame that rich person over there for their own situation.
BTW it requires more money allied to more sense, but not necessarily more money than "everyone else".
MiniMan64 said:
98elise said:
Why is VAT on one particular type of education an appropriate tax? Surely it should apply to all education or none.
Because private education is a an optional choice because you’ve got more money than everyone else. State education is not. BTW it requires more money allied to more sense, but not necessarily more money than "everyone else".
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