Burglary at remote Peak District farm, murder arrest

Burglary at remote Peak District farm, murder arrest

Author
Discussion

Lotobear

6,509 posts

130 months

Thursday 2nd May
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Lotobear said:
...the miscreants will doubtless all be fun loving 'characters' who doted their Mums and would do anything for anyone and at least one promising footballer. Local Ikea will be fresh out of tea lights and blow up heart shaped balloons
...Jeez, seems my earlier prediction was scarily accurate

TriumphStag3.0V8

3,899 posts

83 months

Thursday 2nd May
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ATG said:
fttm said:
Hopefully the home owner isn't charged . I'm with the majority of decent people on this one , feral low life scum break into your property then their rights are left at the door , no ifs no buts .
That isn't the view of a decent person who has thought their position through.
Is it not?


TriumphStag3.0V8

3,899 posts

83 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
ConnectionError said:
19 year old local called Marcus Smith is the chap who died.

"A former pupil at Chapel-en-the-Frith High School, Mr Smith was a footballer who had played for Chapel Town FC"
So, it seems he WAS a footballer, but was he a promising one?

oobster

7,120 posts

213 months

Thursday 2nd May
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If the farmer doesn’t get charged then it’s likely, I assume, that he will need to move away from the area - family of the murdered lad etc may seek reprisals and/or start a kerfuffle if they bump into each other down the local shops?

Derek Smith

45,845 posts

250 months

Thursday 2nd May
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munroman said:
Having had 2 elderly Uncles suffer a home invasion, which ruined their old age, by similar scum, I'd be keen to implement the Florida solution which one Sheriff proposed.

'If you are in fear of your home being invaded, shoot first, then call the cops, don't be afraid'.

After a pond life stopped breathing due to lead poisoning, the number of home invasions in the following year in the County.

Zero....
A deaf mute knocked on the door of a house in the USA. When it was answered, he reached into his top pocket to produce his ID, and the homeowner shot and killed him.

No prosecution.

PurpleTurtle

7,104 posts

146 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
ConnectionError said:
19 year old local called Marcus Smith is the chap who died.

"A former pupil at Chapel-en-the-Frith High School, Mr Smith was a footballer who had played for Chapel Town FC"
So, it seems he WAS a footballer, but was he a promising one?
Two appearances and one goal this season according to the club website, so probably more of an occasional benchwarmer.

Alickadoo

1,773 posts

25 months

Condi

17,337 posts

173 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
munroman said:
Having had 2 elderly Uncles suffer a home invasion, which ruined their old age, by similar scum, I'd be keen to implement the Florida solution which one Sheriff proposed.

'If you are in fear of your home being invaded, shoot first, then call the cops, don't be afraid'.

After a pond life stopped breathing due to lead poisoning, the number of home invasions in the following year in the County.

Zero....
A deaf mute knocked on the door of a house in the USA. When it was answered, he reached into his top pocket to produce his ID, and the homeowner shot and killed him.

No prosecution.
There is all sorts of bad examples of this law.

Young black lad knocked on the wrong door when delivering a parcel, the bloke shot him through the door. I forget whether he was charged for murder or not, but he believed he could do it because the law was such that if you felt threatened you could shoot. Lots of cases in America are rooted in racism as well.

It's a terrible idea to implement anything like that here.

QuartzDad

2,270 posts

124 months

Thursday 2nd May
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Alickadoo said:
"Derbyshire Police was called to reports of a burglary in Eccles Road, in Whaley Bridge, at 01:20 BST on Wednesday."

"The force said it was keeping an open mind about whether the incident was linked to a reported burglary at the property at about 15:30 BST on Tuesday."

That's quite a gap.

pokethepope

2,662 posts

190 months

Thursday 2nd May
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Alickadoo said:
Nowhere on that link does it say he has been charged

Leicester Loyal

4,577 posts

124 months

Thursday 2nd May
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PurpleTurtle said:
A brief bit of Facestalking leads one to his mother's FB profile where she's already posted a picture of her and her offspring. Multiple people fawning over how "he was the loveliest boy" blah blah blah.

All of them seemingly overlooking that he was out at night at a farm in the middle of nowhere committing aggravated burglary.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Edited by PurpleTurtle on Thursday 2nd May 14:48
Yep, just been having a read.

'He was a funny, polite, well mannered, charming young man'

He was a scumbag and a tramp if he was breaking into someones house on the rob.

Drumroll

3,787 posts

122 months

Thursday 2nd May
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Leicester Loyal said:
Yep, just been having a read.

'He was a funny, polite, well mannered, charming young man'

He was a scumbag and a tramp if he was breaking into someones house on the rob.
IF is the operative word, at this stage we know very little.

MB140

4,113 posts

105 months

Thursday 2nd May
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ninepoint2 said:
If it was a "burglary that went wrong" then they deserve what they got, play stupid games win stupid prizes springs to mind, the law is flawed if this farmer is done for murder IMHO if his gun is legally held (unlike Tony Martin) should be given an award for saving tax payers a fortune to keep these scrotes in prison, again in IMHO



Edited by ninepoint2 on Wednesday 1st May 22:39
I agree, I’m sure arresting him is standard operating procedures. Now let’s hope that they see sense at let him go without charges.

ChocolateFrog

25,826 posts

175 months

Thursday 2nd May
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Without getting the details I'm going to say I'm 99.999% sure I'll be siding with the farmer and there's a corresponding chance I'd ever convict him if I was on the jury.

hairykrishna

13,193 posts

205 months

Thursday 2nd May
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Countdown said:
hairykrishna said:
Ian Geary said:
Also I think Tony Martin hid behind a door and ambushed them
Not only was he lying in waiting for them but he shot them in the back as they were running away. With an illegally held gun. He was lucky to only do 3 years.

If you feel your life is threatened then defending with lethal force is perfectly legal.
In his defence hadn't he been targeted numerous times previously?
Yes, he'd been burgled a few times. I don't think the bloke he killed was a massive loss to society, to paraphrase Bill Hicks - I don't think we lost a cure for cancer. I also don't think we should encourage grumpy old farmers to lie in wait for people with illegal pump action shotguns they claim they 'found' though. Our self defence laws are pretty decent I think. If Tony Marten had shot them on the way into the house, rather than when they were running away, and the gun had been legal I'm pretty sure he would have walked. The law allows for an extremely robust defence if you think you are in danger.

Biggy Stardust

7,001 posts

46 months

Thursday 2nd May
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Drumroll said:
IF is the operative word, at this stage we know very little.
What would your alternative scenario be for the 4 of them pitching up at 0130 in an apparently stolen vehicle? I doubt they were Jehovah's Witness night shift or collection for the local boy scouts.

mac96

3,849 posts

145 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Biggy Stardust said:
Drumroll said:
IF is the operative word, at this stage we know very little.
What would your alternative scenario be for the 4 of them pitching up at 0130 in an apparently stolen vehicle? I doubt they were Jehovah's Witness night shift or collection for the local boy scouts.
Well for one thing we don't know if he gave them a chance to leave before opening fire. Even burglars can't be shot on sight.

Biggy Stardust

7,001 posts

46 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
mac96 said:
Well for one thing we don't know if he gave them a chance to leave before opening fire. Even burglars can't be shot on sight.
I beg to differ- if he felt endangered the he has the right to do a lot more than shout "go away".

ATG

20,717 posts

274 months

Thursday 2nd May
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TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
ATG said:
fttm said:
Hopefully the home owner isn't charged . I'm with the majority of decent people on this one , feral low life scum break into your property then their rights are left at the door , no ifs no buts .
That isn't the view of a decent person who has thought their position through.
Is it not?
You don't need to change their rights. All you need is the right to use reasonable force to defend yourself. That's it.

What rights do you think they should lose? Let's say it's the "right not to be shot at by a farmer.". Well, none of us ever had that right in the first place. Farmers are allowed to shoot at us if it is a reasonable use of force in the circumstances.

Are we thinking that homeowners should have the right to use unreasonable force to defend themselves? That'd be a bit paradoxical, but more to the point, it isn't anything to do with the scrote's rights. It's about the homeowner's rights.

So what rights do people think the scrotes should lose?

Edited by ATG on Thursday 2nd May 19:26

Ian Geary

4,534 posts

194 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
ATG said:
fttm said:
Hopefully the home owner isn't charged . I'm with the majority of decent people on this one , feral low life scum break into your property then their rights are left at the door , no ifs no buts .
That isn't the view of a decent person who has thought their position through.
Is it not?
No. Along with purple turtle, that view just doesn't stand up to sensible critique. Where would you draw the line - Pulp Fiction? The law needs to define acceptable behaviour, and leaving grey areas doesn't help anyone really.


Condi said:
Yes.

The law is that if you feel threatened you can use proportionate force. Tony Martin's defence fell down because the guy was running away from him, and so there was no longer an imminent danger to his life.

It will come down to what, if any, weapons the burglars had, and whether they were coming towards him or not. You can't use lethal force to protect property, so if he had spotted them in the yard and opened fire he won't have much defence.
Obvious solution - have two guns. One registered, one not.

"Oh look, he had a gun!"

Job jobbed.



(I realise my two comments are somewhat contradictory - probably something to do with the duality of man and the Jungian thing)