Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
dimots said:
I don't think you understand that when you pay with GBP you are simply swapping a promisory note from a bank for an IOU from the King which is backed only by nostalgia and promises.
Who cares?If I’ve run out of petrol and the local garage will only take cash or card what am I going to do?
Offering Bitcoin at my local Shell, I may as well offer to pay with a goat
funinhounslow said:
Who cares?
If I’ve run out of petrol and the local garage will only take cash or card what am I going to do?
Offering Bitcoin at my local Shell, I may as well offer to pay with a goat
Sure use it to pay for stuff for as long as you can get away with it. But then don't simultaneously ask why people choose to hold bitcoin and not spend it If I’ve run out of petrol and the local garage will only take cash or card what am I going to do?
Offering Bitcoin at my local Shell, I may as well offer to pay with a goat
dimots said:
Sure use it to pay for stuff for as long as you can get away with it. But then don't simultaneously ask why people choose to hold bitcoin and not spend it
I thought it was a currency? Pretty useless as a currency if people chose to hold bitcoin and not spend it. Almost exactly the opposite to what you want tbh! You do tie yourself in knots.
BandOfBrothers said:
I'd be interested to hear how you think it can be shut down, because from my reading there would only be two likely survivors of even a nuclear mass extinction event: cockroaches and BTC.
You do realise that you need power, internet etc. Even if there is a limited Nuclear war, what do you think EMP will do to computers (or you going to tell me you all have EMP hardened mining rigs buried in Swiss mountains)... Or are the cockroaches going to power the BTC?
Whatever happens after a Nuclear war, BTC, Gold or FIAT aren't going to be high on anyone's "hedge" list. Food, meds and guns. If I'm long the later you are coughing up the digital key thank-you muchly (not that I believe I'd need the magic internet CCY).
There are much better arguments for BTC adoption than the end of the world nonsense. Trump getting his hands on the Fed should give everyone the willies. But, the whole decentralised thing means you are at the risk of muppets like the Tornado mixers / laundry, terrorist financing and potential for sanctions abuse. Or read that as $ hegemony. Its not going down without a fight, there are too many muppets involved giving OFAC etc an excuse to have it firmly in the gun sight.
Even IF the $ loses its dominance, there is no replacement, you end up in localised blocks and fractions - the push back against BTC from the "West" or anything in $ sphere will increase. The current limited co-existence might be the best it ever gets.
All the lovely stuff about networks, hash rates, can't be debased (the last bit I get); do give it value - but its massively mispriced the risk.
The system isn't righteous or libertarian its built on pretty s
tty ideas (the US economy is built on protectionism max - what do you think is going on there right now with investment). BTC for all its lofty ideals and use case is anarchic.halo34 said:
Condi said:
I thought it was a currency? Pretty useless as a currency if people chose to hold bitcoin and not spend it. Almost exactly the opposite to what you want tbh!
You do tie yourself in knots.
People save money - whats your point?You do tie yourself in knots.
The incentive is not to have cash stuffed under the mattress - it loses value by design - and so people "save" money, either in a bank (who then lend that money out), or in assets such as shares (which pay some reward for the risk you take). Either way, the savings are working, economically.
If you have a currency which is finite in supply and thus you believe is going to be worth more tomorrow than it is today, where is the incentive to spend it? If you want to buy a car, which costs £40k, (say 1Btc), but you believe in 6 months time that £40k will be 0.75 of a Btc, the incentive is not to buy the car, but to hold off because in 6m time it will be cheaper to you. If everyone does this then the economy slows down as people don't spend and you end up in a deflationary environment, which is not good. You don't buy the car, the car manufacturer makes less cars, cuts the workforce who then can't spend much money, which affects the local shop which pays people less, so they have less to spend etc.
What non of you idealists seem to understand is basic economic principles, that money loses value by design - it is no accident that inflation target is 2% and not 0% - it is designed like that to encourage people to spend and keep the money moving around. If everyone holds onto their money then the economy suffers.
But hey, yay Bitcoin!
Condi said:
Really, you don't understand?
The incentive is not to have cash stuffed under the mattress - it loses value by design - and so people "save" money, either in a bank (who then lend that money out), or in assets such as shares (which pay some reward for the risk you take). Either way, the savings are working, economically.
If you have a currency which is finite in supply and thus you believe is going to be worth more tomorrow than it is today, where is the incentive to spend it? If you want to buy a car, which costs £40k, (say 1Btc), but you believe in 6 months time that £40k will be 0.75 of a Btc, the incentive is not to buy the car, but to hold off because in 6m time it will be cheaper to you. If everyone does this then the economy slows down as people don't spend and you end up in a deflationary environment, which is not good. You don't buy the car, the car manufacturer makes less cars, cuts the workforce who then can't spend much money, which affects the local shop which pays people less, so they have less to spend etc.
What non of you idealists seem to understand is basic economic principles, that money loses value by design - it is no accident that inflation target is 2% and not 0% - it is designed like that to encourage people to spend and keep the money moving around. If everyone holds onto their money then the economy suffers.
But hey, yay Bitcoin!
I think you just need to summarise your views as "dont like it" and be honest about the fact your not willing to have an open mind on it, instead of repetitive arguments where lets face it, you are not going to move from an entrenched position on something. Rather than belittling my ability to understand how "things" work.The incentive is not to have cash stuffed under the mattress - it loses value by design - and so people "save" money, either in a bank (who then lend that money out), or in assets such as shares (which pay some reward for the risk you take). Either way, the savings are working, economically.
If you have a currency which is finite in supply and thus you believe is going to be worth more tomorrow than it is today, where is the incentive to spend it? If you want to buy a car, which costs £40k, (say 1Btc), but you believe in 6 months time that £40k will be 0.75 of a Btc, the incentive is not to buy the car, but to hold off because in 6m time it will be cheaper to you. If everyone does this then the economy slows down as people don't spend and you end up in a deflationary environment, which is not good. You don't buy the car, the car manufacturer makes less cars, cuts the workforce who then can't spend much money, which affects the local shop which pays people less, so they have less to spend etc.
What non of you idealists seem to understand is basic economic principles, that money loses value by design - it is no accident that inflation target is 2% and not 0% - it is designed like that to encourage people to spend and keep the money moving around. If everyone holds onto their money then the economy suffers.
But hey, yay Bitcoin!
Hint - I am actually on the fence about it all and have no "side" or "idealism" - we could equally argue by calling those against people "narrowminded" and "oldfashioned" or even "bigotted". Those are just forms of belittlement for lack of ability to compromise views IMHO
Edited by halo34 on Friday 17th May 11:17
funinhounslow said:
BandOfBrothers said:
So what if Shell won't accept BTC and you need petrol. I guarantee you someone will sell it to you for BTC, especially if the government start restricting what you can do with their fiat currency.
Where can you pay for petrol in Bitcoin?How could the government restrict what you can do with currency in the form of cash? It's easily portable and transactions are anonymous
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT8RXgFDbA4
PM for details.
Next question?
Condi said:
g4ry13 said:
Currently out of stock, but here was one way.
It's bks anyway, you're not paying with Bitcoin. Your swapping Bitcoin for GBP, paying that GBP to Morrisons (with Bitrefill taking a cut) and locking that GBP in a way which can only be spent at Morrisons. Paying with Bitcoin would mean you giving Morrisons Bitcoin, which clearly isn't happening. It would make far far more sense to sell your Btc for GBP and put that into a bank account at which point the GBP can be used in any shop anywhere across the land using a Visa card. Fiat currency only has the value that people think it has, as does Bitcoin.
Currently most people prefer some fiats to Bitcoin, that can easily change.
OoopsVoss said:
BandOfBrothers said:
I'd be interested to hear how you think it can be shut down, because from my reading there would only be two likely survivors of even a nuclear mass extinction event: cockroaches and BTC.
You do realise that you need power, internet etc. Even if there is a limited Nuclear war, what do you think EMP will do to computers (or you going to tell me you all have EMP hardened mining rigs buried in Swiss mountains)... Or are the cockroaches going to power the BTC?
Whatever happens after a Nuclear war, BTC, Gold or FIAT aren't going to be high on anyone's "hedge" list. Food, meds and guns. If I'm long the later you are coughing up the digital key thank-you muchly (not that I believe I'd need the magic internet CCY).
There are much better arguments for BTC adoption than the end of the world nonsense. Trump getting his hands on the Fed should give everyone the willies. But, the whole decentralised thing means you are at the risk of muppets like the Tornado mixers / laundry, terrorist financing and potential for sanctions abuse. Or read that as $ hegemony. Its not going down without a fight, there are too many muppets involved giving OFAC etc an excuse to have it firmly in the gun sight.
Even IF the $ loses its dominance, there is no replacement, you end up in localised blocks and fractions - the push back against BTC from the "West" or anything in $ sphere will increase. The current limited co-existence might be the best it ever gets.
All the lovely stuff about networks, hash rates, can't be debased (the last bit I get); do give it value - but its massively mispriced the risk.
The system isn't righteous or libertarian its built on pretty s
tty ideas (the US economy is built on protectionism max - what do you think is going on there right now with investment). BTC for all its lofty ideals and use case is anarchic.Solar panels provide power and I don't think anyone is suggesting that every single one will be knocked out in a nuclear war. So will a diesel generator.
Nor will every single computer be knocked out. I don't think you understand how ubiquitous they are. How many will be on ships in the middle of the pacific for example?
You also don't need the Internet to support the blockchain, a local area network will do.
And no one is arguing that the selling point of BTC is only in its indestructibility - that is your strawman. The discussion was led to this point BY YOU saying that it can be shut down, when quite clearly it cannot.
Overall, it's pretty clear that you don't know what you're talking about, despite sprinkling pseudo-intellectual words into your brain farts...
BandOfBrothers said:
Again, you don't understand a pretty simple concept.
Fiat currency only has the value that people think it has, as does Bitcoin.
Currently most people prefer some fiats to Bitcoin, that can easily change.
The Pound has value because it is backed by the BoE and the government - you cannot pay taxes in Bitcoin. Fiat currency only has the value that people think it has, as does Bitcoin.
Currently most people prefer some fiats to Bitcoin, that can easily change.
It's a pretty simple concept.
Condi said:
BandOfBrothers said:
Again, you don't understand a pretty simple concept.
Fiat currency only has the value that people think it has, as does Bitcoin.
Currently most people prefer some fiats to Bitcoin, that can easily change.
The Pound has value because it is backed by the BoE and the government - you cannot pay taxes in Bitcoin. Fiat currency only has the value that people think it has, as does Bitcoin.
Currently most people prefer some fiats to Bitcoin, that can easily change.
It's a pretty simple concept.
You only have Bitcoin and your taxes are paid.
I don't know how you can't understand that.
Meanwhile the government can halve the value if GBP tomorrow.
No one can do that to Bitcoin.
BandOfBrothers said:
Nope.
I will sell you petrol for Bitcoin.
How much do you want?
1 BTC currently = 10,000L of 95 RON.
Next?
Someone earlier “guaranteed” that you could but petrol with Bitcoin. I asked where and we have so far an expired Morrison’s promotion and an offer which I presume is not serious…I will sell you petrol for Bitcoin.
How much do you want?
1 BTC currently = 10,000L of 95 RON.
Next?
I’m down to half a tank. I need about £40 worth which is, what, 0.00076 Bitcoin
Surely for this sort of transaction cash or card is better?
Again…
https://youtu.be/YT8RXgFDbA4?si=uuOBqVCTrysFhlxm
it won't change easily or likely at all though. 'People' are not crypto zealots. 'People' do not value decentralised currency. 'People' believe crypto is volatile and unreliable at best, and a scam at worst. 'People' won't switch over their business, where they shop, how they bank and how they handle the thing which is most important to them - money - unless they see an alternative that they love and get a huge amount more value out of using.
The crypto battle for hearts and minds is already lost, no matter how good the tech, the idea, the ideology is.
Far better ideas that crypto have gone by the wayside because they lost support.
The crypto battle for hearts and minds is already lost, no matter how good the tech, the idea, the ideology is.
Far better ideas that crypto have gone by the wayside because they lost support.
funinhounslow said:
BandOfBrothers said:
Nope.
I will sell you petrol for Bitcoin.
How much do you want?
1 BTC currently = 10,000L of 95 RON.
Next?
Someone earlier “guaranteed” that you could but petrol with Bitcoin. I asked where and we have so far an expired Morrison’s promotion and an offer which I presume is not serious…I will sell you petrol for Bitcoin.
How much do you want?
1 BTC currently = 10,000L of 95 RON.
Next?
I’m down to half a tank. I need about £40 worth which is, what, 0.00076 Bitcoin
Surely for this sort of transaction cash or card is better?
Again…
https://youtu.be/YT8RXgFDbA4?si=uuOBqVCTrysFhlxm
You said you cannot buy petrol for BTC.
I proved you can.
No one said it was the best way to buy petrol.
My offer is absolutely serious by the way. Minimum purchase 1,000L. Purchases of less than 1,000L charged as 1,000L.
Edited by BandOfBrothers on Friday 17th May 11:49
Blown2CV said:
it won't change easily or likely at all though. 'People' are not crypto zealots. 'People' do not value decentralised currency. 'People' believe crypto is volatile and unreliable at best, and a scam at worst. 'People' won't switch over their business, where they shop, how they bank and how they handle the thing which is most important to them - money - unless they see an alternative that they love and get a huge amount more value out of using.
The crypto battle for hearts and minds is already lost, no matter how good the tech, the idea, the ideology is.
Far better ideas that crypto have gone by the wayside because they lost support.
A whole lot of personal opinions presented as facts without any supporting evidence.The crypto battle for hearts and minds is already lost, no matter how good the tech, the idea, the ideology is.
Far better ideas that crypto have gone by the wayside because they lost support.
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