RE: Volkswagen Phaeton V6 TDI | Shed of the Week
Discussion
I think the Passat-esque looks are one of the best things about the car - debadge it and it draws no attention whatsoever. Mechanicals are basically identical to what's in an A8, Touareg etc. VAG specialists can fix them, it's not a moon rocket. I wouldn't countenance buying one unless you'd be happy with the spanners and multimeter, however. Still, I think that applies to many cars nowadays and let's face it Mercedes, BMW and Audi don't have stellar reputations for reliability in this age bracket. When you consider how ridiculously overengineered these were it's an absolute triumph. I'd be tempted by one in a couple of years, having had every other manner of VAG product nothing scares me there. It can't be any worse than anything else when you have the likes of Autodoc for parts and plenty of these sold in Germany. From where I'm standing, it seems most people would far rather throw in the towel and scrap and replace than try to fix an older car, which is a shame as I'd say these would make a fantastic wafting barge!
Going by memory so expect to be corrected, but as I recall...
Piëch was attempting to make VW move up the food chain of vehicle hierarchy. The problem is that VW already had its place in vehicle hierarchy and there was no sense in making VW another Audi.
The styling of the Phaeton was basically all the Germans were doing at this time with the Russian Doll philosophy of all their main lines looking the same just different sizes. Not making the Phaeton look instantly different from the Passat was likely a mistake for VW.
The Phaeton was supposed to compete with the BMW 7-series, Audi 8-series, Mercedes S-Class, but it was trying to be their equal in size, quality and comfort at 80% of the cost. VW also had the pretty nice Passat W8 which might have helped the perception of VW, but I am sure cannibalized Phaeton buyers.
I was pretty interested in getting a used Phaeton as they depreciated, or even a Passat W8, but the reliability and engine problems of the W12 and W8 became known before the depreciation got to my level.
Kia did something similar to the Phaeton with the unknown K900 and Hyundai with the Equus and Genesis. Based on my observations, I'd guess Genesis has been pretty successful at accomplishing for Hyundai what Piëch wanted for VW.
Piëch was attempting to make VW move up the food chain of vehicle hierarchy. The problem is that VW already had its place in vehicle hierarchy and there was no sense in making VW another Audi.
The styling of the Phaeton was basically all the Germans were doing at this time with the Russian Doll philosophy of all their main lines looking the same just different sizes. Not making the Phaeton look instantly different from the Passat was likely a mistake for VW.
The Phaeton was supposed to compete with the BMW 7-series, Audi 8-series, Mercedes S-Class, but it was trying to be their equal in size, quality and comfort at 80% of the cost. VW also had the pretty nice Passat W8 which might have helped the perception of VW, but I am sure cannibalized Phaeton buyers.
I was pretty interested in getting a used Phaeton as they depreciated, or even a Passat W8, but the reliability and engine problems of the W12 and W8 became known before the depreciation got to my level.
Kia did something similar to the Phaeton with the unknown K900 and Hyundai with the Equus and Genesis. Based on my observations, I'd guess Genesis has been pretty successful at accomplishing for Hyundai what Piëch wanted for VW.
Always fancied V6 TDI Phaeton , this looks a belter for £2grand 1 owner from new so no doubt has been looked after.
Unfortunately I now have come to my senses and no this type of car is a money pit , so sadly I won't ever be buying a Phaeton and will stick with our 08 Saab & 62plate DS3.
Unfortunately I now have come to my senses and no this type of car is a money pit , so sadly I won't ever be buying a Phaeton and will stick with our 08 Saab & 62plate DS3.
I ran the LWB V10 twin turbo diesel version of this for nearly 5 years many years ago. I ran it as a University Taxi. I did run a highly modified VX220 turbo as a contrast.
It did the journey from Portsmouth to Norfolk like a trip to the local shops.
First thing I did was find a good mechanic and a Ross Tech OBD reader as they had a habit of throwing up a few codes now and then.
I bought it for £10K as a shed with the thinking that if it lasted a few years it would be better than spending £40-50K on a newish Luxo barge and loosing heaps of money on depreciation.
I had the mindset of perhaps having to scrap it if it went seriously wrong, in the end it gave me nearly 5 years of enjoyment and apart from buying the correct oil and replacing a corroded brake pipe (as luck would have it my guy was able to replace it without taking the engine out) it was fine.
Although a bit dated it had a charm of it's own and I never grew tired of the way the air vents retracted open when switching the ignition on.
It did the journey from Portsmouth to Norfolk like a trip to the local shops.
First thing I did was find a good mechanic and a Ross Tech OBD reader as they had a habit of throwing up a few codes now and then.
I bought it for £10K as a shed with the thinking that if it lasted a few years it would be better than spending £40-50K on a newish Luxo barge and loosing heaps of money on depreciation.
I had the mindset of perhaps having to scrap it if it went seriously wrong, in the end it gave me nearly 5 years of enjoyment and apart from buying the correct oil and replacing a corroded brake pipe (as luck would have it my guy was able to replace it without taking the engine out) it was fine.
Although a bit dated it had a charm of it's own and I never grew tired of the way the air vents retracted open when switching the ignition on.
Anyway, nobody from this parish will be buying anyway, so it's even a better shed.Bladedancer said:
For 2k one might be tempted to get it and run it into the ground. Providing it isn't in that state already...
I bet it was before it was even advertised!you need to keep it going to run it into the ground. the trouble with anything like this is you're always one what should be a small issue from it being economically unviable to fix.
really not sure what the percieved market was for these - even people wanting something luxurious and discreet would probably prefer the resale of a merc/bm/audi etc and that lot are so common anyway none especially stand out if you don't want them to.
I bought a 3.0tdi one of these January 2023 from a friends dad, for £1500 for a cheap car as my other threw its cambelt.
It had a few niggles, mainly from being parked up which fixed itself with some use.
Main issue was leaking powersteering pipe, (vw wanted something like £500 to supply at trade price). I nipped into pirtek and had a hose made for £80.
I’ve serviced it (easier than the wife’s Kia to work on) and it’s just gone through another mot, only advisory was slight wear to the inner edge to the front tyres. This was caused by a ride height sensor sheering off when I hit a pothole causing it to slam itself to the floor. I was only a few miles from home so limped it back. Apparently they don’t like being lowered too much as you can’t dial the suspension back in enough.
If you buy genuine parts, yes they can be expensive to fix, but at this age, it can have aftermarket parts in it.
I shouldn’t like it as I’m not into barges at all but I love it!
Smooth v6 engine and box, quick enough for what it is, great ride which is adjustable in dampening and ride height. Brilliant on a long run, effortless to drive.
It’s a heavy old thing considering its panels are mainly Ali, but you can get 35mpg on a run, just thirsty stop starting.
Faults?
Drivers (double glazed!) window switches too far down the arm rest, I have lean forward and I’m not short!
It’s got more light up switches than the Enterprise but not one around the ignition barrel which means I fumble around in the dark trying to get the key in.
Multi adjustable heated and cooled seats but no seat memory button, other than those personal gripes I really like it.
I’ve had just over a year out of it, if it goes bang now it can go to the scrap yard!
It had a few niggles, mainly from being parked up which fixed itself with some use.
Main issue was leaking powersteering pipe, (vw wanted something like £500 to supply at trade price). I nipped into pirtek and had a hose made for £80.
I’ve serviced it (easier than the wife’s Kia to work on) and it’s just gone through another mot, only advisory was slight wear to the inner edge to the front tyres. This was caused by a ride height sensor sheering off when I hit a pothole causing it to slam itself to the floor. I was only a few miles from home so limped it back. Apparently they don’t like being lowered too much as you can’t dial the suspension back in enough.
If you buy genuine parts, yes they can be expensive to fix, but at this age, it can have aftermarket parts in it.
I shouldn’t like it as I’m not into barges at all but I love it!
Smooth v6 engine and box, quick enough for what it is, great ride which is adjustable in dampening and ride height. Brilliant on a long run, effortless to drive.
It’s a heavy old thing considering its panels are mainly Ali, but you can get 35mpg on a run, just thirsty stop starting.
Faults?
Drivers (double glazed!) window switches too far down the arm rest, I have lean forward and I’m not short!
It’s got more light up switches than the Enterprise but not one around the ignition barrel which means I fumble around in the dark trying to get the key in.
Multi adjustable heated and cooled seats but no seat memory button, other than those personal gripes I really like it.
I’ve had just over a year out of it, if it goes bang now it can go to the scrap yard!
Fink-Nottle said:
You would be right about that. Consider this owner's report of 4 soul-crushing years in a W12 Phaeton--
That said, I adore these cars, and surely a V6 Diesel is a tiny fraction of those costs. Simple common sense.
I've always liked the Phaeton and always wanted to own one but stories of borkage put me off!That said, I adore these cars, and surely a V6 Diesel is a tiny fraction of those costs. Simple common sense.
I can't help but think the guy in the video massively overpaid there, and in some of the comments, it was suggested Switzerland isn't the cheapest of places to maintain it either!
I just looked on Euro car parts using the reg number of the only W12 for sale on auto trader and found these prices
Set of front discs - £280
Set of rear discs - £134 (both sets Brembo)
Front Pads - £108 (Brembo)
Rear Pads - £60 (pagid)
Right hand air filter - £15 (assume left is the same price but not listed)
MANN oil filter - £14.40
Spark Plugs (for a set of Bosch) - £192
Bosch Pollen filter- £65
Bosch Fuel Filter - £9.39
Oil - Say £50 odd
So actually, basic servicing seems pretty cheap if you are willing to get handy with the spanners.
Euros even list the air spring units for the front corners at £1k per corner.
Fink-Nottle said:
You would be right about that. Consider this owner's report of 4 soul-crushing years in a W12 Phaeton--
That said, I adore these cars, and surely a V6 Diesel is a tiny fraction of those costs. Simple common sense.
This guy bought all the parts and did all the repairs in Swiss garages. It’s not uncommon to drive to Germany and pay less than half for the labor. That said, I adore these cars, and surely a V6 Diesel is a tiny fraction of those costs. Simple common sense.
I have owned 2 Phaetons. The first was a 3.2 Petrol LWB AWD. I loved that car. I did around 120,000 miles. I understand that they are going to be expensive to fix if something breaks, nothing ever did. Unfortunately I was driving past a parked car when the the driver opened his door and kinda wrecked everything on my passenger side. By coincidence the car he was in was a Bentley Continental which as others have remarked is a close descendant of the Phaeton. I sold that one as a fixer upper and its now being driven around Aberdeen area by a man who knows his cars and also loves it. There have been comments about it being related to an A8 , its not, I have had an A8 and an S8, both were good cars but with nothing like the build quality of the Phaeton. Also the suspension on the Audi's was overcomplicated and unreliable. My second Phaeton, I bought about 3 years ago, its also a 3.2 petrol but SWB and not AWD and without some high spec stuff like window blinds etc. In the last 4 weeks I have driven it as follows, Glasgow - Felixstowe,
Hook of Holland to Salzburg, Salzburg to Chamonix, Chamonix to Venice, Munich to Amsterdam. Hull to Glasgow, It has not missed a beat and I get out of the car tired for sure but relaxed. It is a mile muncher par excellence. BTW on these journeys I can confirm that i will get 30mpg at around 75 mph.
I recently tried to buy the Phaeton which the Lord Provost of Glasgow was ferried around in. Sadly being diesel it was not ULEZ compliant. For about 10 years I had a 1979 Silver Wraith which was very comfortable but drove like a barge whereas the Phaeton is more comfortable and miles better to drive.
The only vehicle that has come close in terms of build quality was a Mercedes delivery Van I drove about 40 years ago. I had to open the window before closing the door because the seals were so good. I think that vehicle did around 500,000. The dream Phaeton would be the 3.2 petrol AWD with an LPG conversion. I fitted proper snow tyres on my AWD Phaeton. Absolutely unstoppable!
Hook of Holland to Salzburg, Salzburg to Chamonix, Chamonix to Venice, Munich to Amsterdam. Hull to Glasgow, It has not missed a beat and I get out of the car tired for sure but relaxed. It is a mile muncher par excellence. BTW on these journeys I can confirm that i will get 30mpg at around 75 mph.
I recently tried to buy the Phaeton which the Lord Provost of Glasgow was ferried around in. Sadly being diesel it was not ULEZ compliant. For about 10 years I had a 1979 Silver Wraith which was very comfortable but drove like a barge whereas the Phaeton is more comfortable and miles better to drive.
The only vehicle that has come close in terms of build quality was a Mercedes delivery Van I drove about 40 years ago. I had to open the window before closing the door because the seals were so good. I think that vehicle did around 500,000. The dream Phaeton would be the 3.2 petrol AWD with an LPG conversion. I fitted proper snow tyres on my AWD Phaeton. Absolutely unstoppable!
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