EV with real 300+ mile range?

[ChocolateFrog]

raspy said:

That EQS for £50k has a price of £32k on WBAC. There will be considerable wiggle room at a MB dealer to get the price down from the advertised £50k given they are not popular cars, new or used.

They'd have to be absolutely mad if you waved £40odd thousand of real money under their noses and didn't budge.

[ChocolateFrog]

MrTrilby said:

OP asks what cars can reliably do two 140 mile journeys without having to spend time charging, and everyone’s answer seems to be no. There is another option and it’s what plug-in hybrids are great at.

We haven't said no. We've given him the answer. The EQS saloon or the longest range Model S he can afford.

Someone said an EV6 can do it. I'm not sure about that in winter but I don't have any specific experience to counter.

It's an absolute edge case for an EV in the UK climate at the moment.

Edited by ChocolateFrog on Saturday 18th May 10:49

[GT9]

annodomini2 said:

Why are the most outspoken those who's use case doesn't fit EVs and assume it doesn't fit anyone else??

FOMO, or more accurately, fear of being marginalised.

[Nomme de Plum]

ChocolateFrog said:

We haven't said no. We've given him the answer. The EQS saloon or the longest range Model S he can afford.

Someone said an EV6 can do it. I'm not sure about that in winter but I don't have any specific experience to counter.

It's an absolute edge case for an EV in the UK climate at the moment.

Edited by ChocolateFrog on Saturday 18th May 10:49

The UK climate is not the same across all of our geography. What may work in the more temperate regions maybe more of a challenge further North and at altitude. Where i live we rarely get frosts let alone snow.

[ChocolateFrog]

Nomme de Plum said:

ChocolateFrog said:

We haven't said no. We've given him the answer. The EQS saloon or the longest range Model S he can afford.

Someone said an EV6 can do it. I'm not sure about that in winter but I don't have any specific experience to counter.

It's an absolute edge case for an EV in the UK climate at the moment.

Edited by ChocolateFrog on Saturday 18th May 10:49

The UK climate is not the same across all of our geography. What may work in the more temperate regions maybe more of a challenge further North and at altitude. Where i live we rarely get frosts let alone snow.

True but the temperature doesn't have to be below zero to seriously effect range. 5 degrees and raining could easily knock 25% off ideal conditions.

[740EVTORQUES]

ChocolateFrog said:

Nomme de Plum said:

ChocolateFrog said:

We haven't said no. We've given him the answer. The EQS saloon or the longest range Model S he can afford.

Someone said an EV6 can do it. I'm not sure about that in winter but I don't have any specific experience to counter.

It's an absolute edge case for an EV in the UK climate at the moment.

Edited by ChocolateFrog on Saturday 18th May 10:49

The UK climate is not the same across all of our geography. What may work in the more temperate regions maybe more of a challenge further North and at altitude. Where i live we rarely get frosts let alone snow.

True but the temperature doesn't have to be below zero to seriously effect range. 5 degrees and raining could easily knock 25% off ideal conditions.

More like 20%, however the EV is still better IMO. You never have to get out in the wet and cold and stand filling up with petrol during your normal commuting drives, and when you have to top up on the occasional longer drives, you just plug in and sit in warmth in the car for 10-20 minutes, still better than standing outside pumping fuel I think.

Unless you have no home charging or do very regular very long journeys I cannot see how an EV is not the better solution.

[Wills2]

PinkHouse said:

Every single EV manufacturer knows it, if they didn't believe it was so important then they wouldn't have to lie and overstate the claimed range in many cases by up to 200%

I don't think it's a case of lying about the range they are all subjected to the same tests via WLTP, my car will do 1000+ miles best case or 600 miles worse case, so it doesn't really matter for the practical use of the car that one is much lower than the other as the baseline is so high, but LR EVs have a best case of say 380 max vs a worse case of 190 and then that does play on the mind in terms of any effects on practical usage.

If an EV could do 600 miles best case and 300 miles worst case no one would care or think they were being lied to, they'd just accept that driving styles/weather affects mileage.

[Nomme de Plum]

ChocolateFrog said:

Nomme de Plum said:

ChocolateFrog said:

We haven't said no. We've given him the answer. The EQS saloon or the longest range Model S he can afford.

Someone said an EV6 can do it. I'm not sure about that in winter but I don't have any specific experience to counter.

It's an absolute edge case for an EV in the UK climate at the moment.

Edited by ChocolateFrog on Saturday 18th May 10:49

The UK climate is not the same across all of our geography. What may work in the more temperate regions maybe more of a challenge further North and at altitude. Where i live we rarely get frosts let alone snow.

True but the temperature doesn't have to be below zero to seriously effect range. 5 degrees and raining could easily knock 25% off ideal conditions.

I've no idea whether that is true or not. Are you just speculating? I can't see I have noticed such a major impact on the range of my EV although I've no evidence ether way. I do tend to pre-warm before departure.


Surely only owners of EVs with a potentially suitable range are the only ones who can say one way or the other. The rest of us are just guessing.

[Nomme de Plum]

Wills2 said:

PinkHouse said:

Every single EV manufacturer knows it, if they didn't believe it was so important then they wouldn't have to lie and overstate the claimed range in many cases by up to 200%

I don't think it's a case of lying about the range they are all subjected to the same tests via WLTP, my car will do 1000+ miles best case or 600 miles worse case, so it doesn't really matter for the practical use of the car that one is much lower than the other as the baseline is so high, but LR EVs have a best case of say 380 max vs a worse case of 190 and then that does play on the mind in terms of any effects on practical usage.

If an EV could do 600 miles best case and 300 miles worst case no one would care or think they were being lied to, they'd just accept that driving styles/weather affects mileage.

I never considered range when i bought an ICE and my first few cars would have never done more than 150 miles before refuelling was necessary. Petrol stations did not even operate 24/7 then and many operated 0700-2200hrs. Some even shut on Sundays.

Now I drive an EV with a similar range ands still have no issue driving where i wish. Had I had a profile with longer journey requirements I would have targeted a 300mile range. I live in a dense traffic area so maintaining a total journey average over 55mph is almost impossible. That's over 5 hours driving so I would always stop at least once.

If a person really wishes to have a potential non stop 600mile plus range then don't buy an EV.

[TheDeuce]

This entire debate comes down to the trip being monthly...

Whatever EV is used, however long it takes to charge.. it's still going to equate to less cost and time Vs running an ICE that needs fuelling time/cost every week regardless of how long it short individual journeys are.

If you can charge at home and rarely exceed the range of your EV, it's going to be simpler overall to live with than ICE.

[Wills2]

Nomme de Plum said:

Wills2 said:

PinkHouse said:

Every single EV manufacturer knows it, if they didn't believe it was so important then they wouldn't have to lie and overstate the claimed range in many cases by up to 200%

I don't think it's a case of lying about the range they are all subjected to the same tests via WLTP, my car will do 1000+ miles best case or 600 miles worse case, so it doesn't really matter for the practical use of the car that one is much lower than the other as the baseline is so high, but LR EVs have a best case of say 380 max vs a worse case of 190 and then that does play on the mind in terms of any effects on practical usage.

If an EV could do 600 miles best case and 300 miles worst case no one would care or think they were being lied to, they'd just accept that driving styles/weather affects mileage.

I never considered range when i bought an ICE and my first few cars would have never done more than 150 miles before refuelling was necessary. Petrol stations did not even operate 24/7 then and many operated 0700-2200hrs. Some even shut on Sundays.

Now I drive an EV with a similar range ands still have no issue driving where i wish. Had I had a profile with longer journey requirements I would have targeted a 300mile range. I live in a dense traffic area so maintaining a total journey average over 55mph is almost impossible. That's over 5 hours driving so I would always stop at least once.

If a person really wishes to have a potential non stop 600mile plus range then don't buy an EV.

Your post has zero relevance to the point I making, but that's no surprise as you specialise in it.

[Nomme de Plum]

Wills2 said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Wills2 said:

PinkHouse said:

Every single EV manufacturer knows it, if they didn't believe it was so important then they wouldn't have to lie and overstate the claimed range in many cases by up to 200%

I don't think it's a case of lying about the range they are all subjected to the same tests via WLTP, my car will do 1000+ miles best case or 600 miles worse case, so it doesn't really matter for the practical use of the car that one is much lower than the other as the baseline is so high, but LR EVs have a best case of say 380 max vs a worse case of 190 and then that does play on the mind in terms of any effects on practical usage.

If an EV could do 600 miles best case and 300 miles worst case no one would care or think they were being lied to, they'd just accept that driving styles/weather affects mileage.

I never considered range when i bought an ICE and my first few cars would have never done more than 150 miles before refuelling was necessary. Petrol stations did not even operate 24/7 then and many operated 0700-2200hrs. Some even shut on Sundays.

Now I drive an EV with a similar range ands still have no issue driving where i wish. Had I had a profile with longer journey requirements I would have targeted a 300mile range. I live in a dense traffic area so maintaining a total journey average over 55mph is almost impossible. That's over 5 hours driving so I would always stop at least once.

If a person really wishes to have a potential non stop 600mile plus range then don't buy an EV.

Your post has zero relevance to the point I making, but that's no surprise as you specialise in it.

It's completely relevant. Once someone drives an EV for any length of time initial range anxiety disappears. Your car's range is extremely atypical in comparison with most peoples usage.

You said "If an EV could do 600 miles best case and 300 miles worst case no one would care or think they were being lied to, they'd just accept that driving styles/weather affects mileage."

Which is blindingly obvious and WLTP is just a guide anyway. Temperature, altitude and driving style impacts ICEs too although the UK is relatively temperate and flat so less of an impact than would be found in other countries.

[DMZ]

I think it largely matters what happens the other 29-30 days. If not a lot, buy ICE. If quite a lot of 200-mile days then EV. Assuming it’s a range/cost consideration mostly. Obviously other things normally come into play also. You couldn’t pay me to have a Tesla Model 3 as an example. Or an EV6. But if you like an EV then I don’t think a 10 min stop would dampen the enthusiasm but tbh I would buy one you actually fancy and not something based on fuel tank size. And if you prefer some ICE instead I’m sure that case can be made also. If you let’s say prefer more compact sporty cars.

[fatjon]

740EVTORQUES said:

No, charging a modern EV to 100% is absolutely fine, especially if it’s only once a month.

The thing that damages batteries and shortens their life is heat. Early Nissan Leaf batteries show this well, which is why there are so many for sale with significantly degraded batteries.

Current EVs have thermal management systems to prevent this.


Charging a battery to 100% is fine as long as you don’t leave it fully charged for an extended period. Likewise modern EVs can handle fast charging much better and throttle the rate as you reach maximum.

I charge my EV6 GT to 80% on a 7kW home charger as the resultant 165 mile range is all I need. Before a long trip I charge it to 100%. Then when it gets down to 20-30% en route I fast charge at a DC public charger (having pre-heated the battery to increase charging speed). The charge is usually only a top up, enough to get me home and takes less than 10 minutes usually. I get home with 10-30 miles left and plug in to my home charger again.


The battery wear with this strategy is extremely low, well under 0.5%

I have petrol cars which I could easily use when doing long trips. I never do, which says it all really.

So long journeys once a month are simply not an issue even for my EV which prioritises performance over range.

165 miles on 80%, you must have a lead foot.

[740EVTORQUES]

fatjon said:

740EVTORQUES said:

No, charging a modern EV to 100% is absolutely fine, especially if it’s only once a month.

The thing that damages batteries and shortens their life is heat. Early Nissan Leaf batteries show this well, which is why there are so many for sale with significantly degraded batteries.

Current EVs have thermal management systems to prevent this.


Charging a battery to 100% is fine as long as you don’t leave it fully charged for an extended period. Likewise modern EVs can handle fast charging much better and throttle the rate as you reach maximum.

I charge my EV6 GT to 80% on a 7kW home charger as the resultant 165 mile range is all I need. Before a long trip I charge it to 100%. Then when it gets down to 20-30% en route I fast charge at a DC public charger (having pre-heated the battery to increase charging speed). The charge is usually only a top up, enough to get me home and takes less than 10 minutes usually. I get home with 10-30 miles left and plug in to my home charger again.


The battery wear with this strategy is extremely low, well under 0.5%

I have petrol cars which I could easily use when doing long trips. I never do, which says it all really.

So long journeys once a month are simply not an issue even for my EV which prioritises performance over range.

165 miles on 80%, you must have a lead foot.

I like to enjoy the performance for sure (why buy a GT if not?)

That screen shot is from an EV6 GT?

If so you need to engage GT mode a bit more!

(You’re getting around 3.5 m/kWh by my calculations? That’s very abstemious of you, I get 2.8)

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Saturday 18th May 14:22

[fatjon]

740EVTORQUES said:

I like to enjoy the performance for sure (why buy a GT if not?)

That screen shot is from an EV6 GT?

If so you need to engage GT mode a bit more!

(You’re getting around 3.5 m/kWh by my calculations? That’s very abstemious of you, I get 2.8)

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Saturday 18th May 14:22

Yes, EV6 GT. I’m usually quite steady but I have the occasional need to let her rip. In the warm weather 3.5-3.8, exceptionally 4.1 but in the winter.. dismal.

[740EVTORQUES]

fatjon said:

740EVTORQUES said:

I like to enjoy the performance for sure (why buy a GT if not?)

That screen shot is from an EV6 GT?

If so you need to engage GT mode a bit more!

(You’re getting around 3.5 m/kWh by my calculations? That’s very abstemious of you, I get 2.8)

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Saturday 18th May 14:22

Yes, EV6 GT. I’m usually quite steady but I have the occasional need to let her rip. In the warm weather 3.5-3.8, exceptionally 4.1 but in the winter.. dismal.

Interesting

Do you mind me asking what your overall average is?

Mine is 2.8 over 18,000 miles starting in Jan 2023

Thanks

[tinyboytim]

Surely the OP should just wait a week or 2 and then all the expensive, out of budget long range EV's will be well within his budget, the dealer's will be desperate to offload their depreciating nightmare with gusto? Just a thought.

[fatjon]

740EVTORQUES said:

Interesting

Do you mind me asking what your overall average is?

Mine is 2.8 over 18,000 miles starting in Jan 2023

Thanks

[Th3 D0n]

ChocolateFrog said:

MrTrilby said:

OP asks what cars can reliably do two 140 mile journeys without having to spend time charging, and everyone’s answer seems to be no. There is another option and it’s what plug-in hybrids are great at.

We haven't said no. We've given him the answer. The EQS saloon or the longest range Model S he can afford.

Someone said an EV6 can do it. I'm not sure about that in winter but I don't have any specific experience to counter.

It's an absolute edge case for an EV in the UK climate at the moment.

Edited by ChocolateFrog on Saturday 18th May 10:49

I wouldn’t fancy 280 miles without charging in winter in my EV6 (RWD so the LR one).
Easy enough to charge at some point on the journey though, despite what the experts read on t’internet/in the Mail/Sun/Sport etc