The new Vantage?

[Calinours]

Davil said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a launch with so many simultaneous YouTube and written reviews. Well done to the PR team. Also very brave to just let these guys go berserk for 15 minute track stints back to back to back.

The amusing thing is that they haven’t had time to crib off one another and there are so many conflicting opinions. The ride is smooth, the ride is harsh. The ZF is slow, the ZF is fast. The steering is numb, the steering communicates well. There is turbo lag, there is basically no turbo lag. It’s better on the track than the road, it’s not a track car but it is good on the road. It’s better than a 911 turbo, it is not better than a 911 turbo. The only thing they all agree is that it is very fast and most all seem to really like it. I’m hoping it will be a big hit.

Spot on

[AlexT]

Probably the most honest review so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5ezBA4TnJQ

He mirrors my precise concerns I had with the DB12 (apart from the leg issue). He did not look as exuberant as other reviews. Hopefully AM take note and make some adjustments.

However, if you want the most attractive looking car in the segment then this new Vantage is still the best.

[LTP]

I'm waiting for Harry Metcalfe's take

edited to add

I'd also be interested if Hagerty put Jason Cammisa in one - he's a bit of a Vantage fan

Edited by LTP on Thursday 16th May 09:22

[CSK1]

LTP said:

I'm waiting for Harry Metcalfe's take

edited to add

I'd also be interested if Hagerty put Jason Cammisa in one - he's a bit of a Vantage fan

Edited by LTP on Thursday 16th May 09:22

I’m exactly the same, Harry always avoids the press drives and waits to have a car he can review on his own terms at home. I can’t wait for his usually excellent review.
Jason Cammisa was a great fan of the VH V12 Vantage S, I’d like to hear his thoughts too.
But we can all agree the reviews are positive so far, I think it looks great, it’s a completely different price point than the VH and previous gen Vantage but it’s also in another league, whereas it used to compete against a 911 Carrera, it’s now clearly aimed at the Turbo.
The Aston has in my view more charisma, is more exclusive (Porsche is no longer a luxury but a premium brand making 300,000 cars/year compared to something like 6,500 or so for Aston).
There’s a card to play here for Aston.
I wish them well!

[Mr.Tremlini]

CSK1 said:

LTP said:

I'd also be interested if Hagerty put Jason Cammisa in one - he's a bit of a Vantage fan

Jason Cammisa was a great fan of the VH V12 Vantage S, I’d like to hear his thoughts too.

Cammisa did love the VH cars, but he slated the previous 4.0L Vantage, and AM`s direction, quite badly. Hagerty had Catchpole do their review, so we may not see Cammisa`s take on this, but I agree, it would be good.

[flatfour]

It's a stunning car although when I look at a VH Vantage S in Silver it still stirs more emotions for me than the new car.


https://youtu.be/5Q0Svvdrx_E?feature=shared

Edited by flatfour on Friday 17th May 14:44

[AlexT]

Wish I had seen this graph earlier as it explains the highly modified engine's characteristics. Peak power comes on 1000RPM later with a satisfyingly more peaky nature. The work AM have done here is impressive. Car sounds very different - more lively - than a GTR too.

[Kerniki]

Duno, mine peaks at 6600 so wouldn’t have taken that much, zero internal changes on mine

Edited by Kerniki on Saturday 18th May 14:29

[AlexT]

Interesting! It will be interesting to see some actual dyno graphs once the car is in owners hands. Here is a graph of the 4.0 TT Vantage stock vs stage 3 (tune, DPs and modified standard turbos):



These engines respond amazingly well to tuning. The potential with the new engine is there but not sure where AM will go with the Vantage power-wise - I think it has enough. How does your car feel with close to 700HP at the wheels?

Edited by AlexT on Sunday 19th May 13:58

[Kerniki]

AlexT said:

Interesting! It will be interesting to see some actual dyno graphs once the car is in owners hands. Here is a graph of the 4.0 TT Vantage stock vs stage 3 (tune, DPs and modified standard turbos):



These engines respond amazingly well to tuning. The potential with the new engine is there but not sure where AM will go with the Vantage power-wise - I think it has enough. How does your car feel with close to 700HP at the wheels?

Edited by AlexT on Sunday 19th May 13:58

It looks like they used the normal GT engine (like the c63, e63) in the standard vantage then, hence the need for stage 3 (turbos etc) to get it to circa 700.

The GTC & GTR used different ancillaries to get to the 550/575 output, I believe the highest power output for the 4.0tt Merc unit is what i have in our S63, which is a standard 612hp, maybe the last e63 had that to? Anyway, the modifications Aston speak of may well be exactly what was done to the GTC/R but they had to reduce power and torque so the dct could handle it, whereas the vantage doesnt have that gearbox limitation..

700hp through 335 section cup2s is absolutely fine in the dry, the torque and characteristics of a turbo + cup2s in the wet is slightly different but the e-diff is a must and standard on the GTC/R wich is why theyve gone for it on the Vantage. Aston are pretty much copying merc but thats no bad thing as the GT is astounding on track, even at 1600kg, will really miss it, 6 years at that power, lots of track work and 30k miles and not a thing needed doing apart from servicing, changed gearbox oil though just in case, zero debris in there.

Edited by Kerniki on Sunday 19th May 19:43

[cb804]

This is a pretty good review of the new Vantage by Seen Through Glass. He also comments about a stiff ride like many other reviewers. I thought you could control the damper setting independent of drive mode. I wonder what mode he had the dampers set at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfQzC-IAoAE&t=...

[Kerniki]

cb804 said:

This is a pretty good review of the new Vantage by Seen Through Glass. He also comments about a stiff ride like many other reviewers. I thought you could control the damper setting independent of drive mode. I wonder what mode he had the dampers set at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfQzC-IAoAE&t=...

There is no comfort mode for the dampers, sport / sport + / track

I would like to think they change this and offer a comfort mode on the production cars, after all the reactions from the journos but i fear this will not be the case..

[AlexT]

Kerniki said:

6 years at that power, lots of track work and 30k miles and not a thing needed doing apart from servicing, changed gearbox oil though just in case, zero debris in there.

Edited by Kerniki on Sunday 19th May 19:43

Absolutely, when I test drove a GTC coupe some years ago, I was most impressed by the drivetrain.

Ride was a little choppy for a GT which is why I agree that AM should incorporate a Comfort mode into the new damper settings. However, if they do that then it won't be distinguished enough from the DB12. And I feel this is the reason why AM have gone this route. The DB12 itself is no Bentley in that department either...

I think Sam had reservations about the new car and he reveals these in his podcast. AM would do well to add some additional sound-damping to improve NVH I feel. In any case, the new Vantage will sell on sound and looks (like a proper Aston!) as on those grounds it is immensely superior.

[David W.]

cb804 said:

This is a pretty good review of the new Vantage by Seen Through Glass. He also comments about a stiff ride like many other reviewers. I thought you could control the damper setting independent of drive mode. I wonder what mode he had the dampers set at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfQzC-IAoAE&t=...

Also some interesting discussion about it on his behind the glass podcast after about 30 minutes if anyone wants to skip the other chat.

[Kerniki]

AlexT said:

Kerniki said:

6 years at that power, lots of track work and 30k miles and not a thing needed doing apart from servicing, changed gearbox oil though just in case, zero debris in there.

Edited by Kerniki on Sunday 19th May 19:43

Absolutely, when I test drove a GTC coupe some years ago, I was most impressed by the drivetrain.

Ride was a little choppy for a GT which is why I agree that AM should incorporate a Comfort mode into the new damper settings. However, if they do that then it won't be distinguished enough from the DB12. And I feel this is the reason why AM have gone this route. The DB12 itself is no Bentley in that department either...

I think Sam had reservations about the new car and he reveals these in his podcast. AM would do well to add some additional sound-damping to improve NVH I feel. In any case, the new Vantage will sell on sound and looks (like a proper Aston!) as on those grounds it is immensely superior.

Agreed wholeheartedly, my only complaint about the GT from day 1 but then it wouldnt be as good on track, these days it spends more time on road than track, as would the vantage, so..

Its true on the db12 comparison but the vantage is smaller all round and lighter so offers a different gt experience to the db12 without a harsher ride needed to differentiate it imo, just give a wider choice between suspension modes, at least ‘give’ a comfort mode.

Like you say, wouldnt stop people buying probably, myself included, ive put up with the GTs ride for all those years, was just hoping for slightly better this time not slightly worse (potentially)

Never went out in the db12, probably should have but was so disappointed in its looks and i dont like wasting peoples time… so didnt know the ride wasnt all that, how does it compare to the GT you have experience of?

David W. said:

Also some interesting discussion about it on his behind the glass podcast after about 30 minutes if anyone wants to skip the other chat.

Thanks, i’ll have a listen.

[AlexT]

Need to find out what the actual front ground clearance of this new Vantage is as have concerns over driveway clearance. The official stats show 94mm which is very low, but that appears to have been measured to the underbody just forward of the rear wheel. Don't suppose anyone knows?

Kerniki said:

Never went out in the db12, probably should have but was so disappointed in its looks and i dont like wasting peoples time… so didnt know the ride wasnt all that, how does it compare to the GT you have experience of?

I would say the ride was definitely more composed and comfortable than a GT. But I would have like comfort to be just that notch softer as over some road imperfections it felt a little crashy. I felt cabin insulation could have been improved too. Could hear the transmission changing down gear. Steering was light and I much preferred the response in the Sport modes. If I were in the market for a comfy, well appointed GT then Bentley would get my money. AM's positioning of the DB12 in its current config needs a re-think honestly. Vantage has an easier job description to perform, as it really only has to be a damn good sports car that is reasonably comfortable and luxurious for its purpose. I think the Vantage will be a winner.

Edited by AlexT on Monday 20th May 08:24

[Kerniki]

AlexT said:

I would say the ride was definitely more composed and comfortable than a GT. But I would have like comfort to be just that notch softer as over some road imperfections it felt a little crashy. I felt cabin insulation could have been improved too. Could hear the transmission changing down gear. Steering was light and I much preferred the response in the Sport modes. If I were in the market for a comfy, well appointed GT then Bentley would get my money. AM's positioning of the DB12 in its current config needs a re-think honestly. Vantage has an easier job description to perform, as it really only has to be a damn good sports car that is reasonably comfortable and luxurious for its purpose. I think the Vantage will be a winner.

Edited by AlexT on Monday 20th May 08:24

Thanks, some fine details in there that not many appreciate but with years of owning GTs and using them for the intended, you become aware..

speaking of good GTs and in reference to the Bentley, which i turned down in favour of this car, is the last iteration of the S63 cabrio, an amazing car and certainly better than the Bentley, minus the kudos of the Bentley but for me at the time this was an advantage & for some the badge ownership is a big part. Rides better, handles better and has more toys that are very useful and its reliability was faultless over 4 years, probably of no interest but thought i’d mention ??

Yeah, think vantage will sell, even with my concerns i would, only thing is price placement, circa 280k for a well specced roadster i’d imagine? and as per my other post, you’re in new 2023 V12 roadster territory then, for me at least that raises comparisons.. new 750s spyder? 280-90 with a haggle? Probably rides better, more visually arresting if not as classy, keep the GTC and upgrade the 720 instead…