Snow Foam - where am I going wrong?
Discussion
I've had a snow foam lance since forever but I've never really gotten on with it that well - by which I mean, I never find that it seems to remove any more dirt than simply blasting the bodywork down with the pressure washer on it's own does. I've tried a few different foam products, used it with two different pressure washers now and tried different concentrations and left it for varying lenghts of time.
As far as I can make out, snow foam appears just to be snake oil. Am I doing something wrong or is it my expectations that are unrealistic?
As far as I can make out, snow foam appears just to be snake oil. Am I doing something wrong or is it my expectations that are unrealistic?
I think the biggest problem is people buy it because it covers everything in a thick foam and looks impressive. The only snow foam I have used that works is bilthamber touch less- make sure the car is dry, cover it in foam and allow it to dwell, then pressure wash off, then wash off.
You can also use a citrus pre wash but I find touchless gets most of it off, or softens the dirt.
You can also use a citrus pre wash but I find touchless gets most of it off, or softens the dirt.
The snow foam doesn't clean the car. What it does do is provide a vehicle to hold the shampoo in emulsion that you're also putting in to the lance bottle. The idea is that got get a thin film of shampoo all over the car and can get to work on all the grime and muck before you start washing by hand.
If you want snow foam to work you need a good covering of wax, makes it harder for grime to stick, therefore the foam/shamppo solution can remove it easier.
If you don't have that it should loosen up all the muck so when you rinse the foam off dirt and grime gets removed, leaving less for you to remove by hand, which is one way you'll get swirls..
Some argue that a prewash solution applied with a low pressure pump sprayer is just as effective...
+1 on Bilt Hamber stuff, take care with the shampoo, its hugely concentrated (and expensive) so only use what you need, something like 10ml for a bucket, you'll notice it doesn't produce lots of bubbles either, but does work very well.
If you want snow foam to work you need a good covering of wax, makes it harder for grime to stick, therefore the foam/shamppo solution can remove it easier.
If you don't have that it should loosen up all the muck so when you rinse the foam off dirt and grime gets removed, leaving less for you to remove by hand, which is one way you'll get swirls..
Some argue that a prewash solution applied with a low pressure pump sprayer is just as effective...
+1 on Bilt Hamber stuff, take care with the shampoo, its hugely concentrated (and expensive) so only use what you need, something like 10ml for a bucket, you'll notice it doesn't produce lots of bubbles either, but does work very well.
Thanks for the responses. I wasn't expecting the car to instantly become spotless, but I was disappointed when as I said, it didn't appear to have done anything very much at all.
Crafty_ said:
The snow foam doesn't clean the car. What it does do is provide a vehicle to hold the shampoo in emulsion that you're also putting in to the lance bottle. The idea is that got get a thin film of shampoo all over the car and can get to work on all the grime and muck before you start washing by hand.
If you want snow foam to work you need a good covering of wax, makes it harder for grime to stick, therefore the foam/shamppo solution can remove it easier.
If you don't have that it should loosen up all the muck so when you rinse the foam off dirt and grime gets removed, leaving less for you to remove by hand, which is one way you'll get swirls..
Some argue that a prewash solution applied with a low pressure pump sprayer is just as effective...
+1 on Bilt Hamber stuff, take care with the shampoo, its hugely concentrated (and expensive) so only use what you need, something like 10ml for a bucket, you'll notice it doesn't produce lots of bubbles either, but does work very well.
OK, are you saying I should mix some shampoo in with the foam/water solution?If you want snow foam to work you need a good covering of wax, makes it harder for grime to stick, therefore the foam/shamppo solution can remove it easier.
If you don't have that it should loosen up all the muck so when you rinse the foam off dirt and grime gets removed, leaving less for you to remove by hand, which is one way you'll get swirls..
Some argue that a prewash solution applied with a low pressure pump sprayer is just as effective...
+1 on Bilt Hamber stuff, take care with the shampoo, its hugely concentrated (and expensive) so only use what you need, something like 10ml for a bucket, you'll notice it doesn't produce lots of bubbles either, but does work very well.
8bit said:
I've had a snow foam lance since forever but I've never really gotten on with it that well - by which I mean, I never find that it seems to remove any more dirt than simply blasting the bodywork down with the pressure washer on it's own does. I've tried a few different foam products, used it with two different pressure washers now and tried different concentrations and left it for varying lenghts of time.
As far as I can make out, snow foam appears just to be snake oil. Am I doing something wrong or is it my expectations that are unrealistic?
I find it does remove a certain layer of grime but it’s definitely not everything I expected!As far as I can make out, snow foam appears just to be snake oil. Am I doing something wrong or is it my expectations that are unrealistic?
I’m firmly in the camp that the vast majority of cleaning products are snake oil, and that any decent shampoo is all you need!
+1 for Bilthamber. If the car is well detailed and only has 'normal' road grime, I find that the snowfoam & jetwash means I don't need to wash the car in addition. If however it's really mucky - then it only has a softening and loosening action on the dirt and thus needs to washed thereafter.
It’s about risk and reducing it rather than getting the car cleaner.
Any time you touch the paint you risk scratching it with hard bits of dirt. Pre wash sprays, snow foam etc are about loosening that dirt, breaking down the oils holding it in place and removing it so there is less when you make contact with the your mitt. 2 bucket methods mean depositing dirt in a rinse bucket and grit guards take it a step further.
Take all the precautions and you’ll still end up making micro marks in the paint and having swirls but they should stay away longer once polished out.
Any time you touch the paint you risk scratching it with hard bits of dirt. Pre wash sprays, snow foam etc are about loosening that dirt, breaking down the oils holding it in place and removing it so there is less when you make contact with the your mitt. 2 bucket methods mean depositing dirt in a rinse bucket and grit guards take it a step further.
Take all the precautions and you’ll still end up making micro marks in the paint and having swirls but they should stay away longer once polished out.
As per the other comments re Bilt Hamber and keeping the paint slick with wax etc. I sometimes apply Surfex HD, leave it to dwell then apply snow foam. This gets the car pretty clean, so much so in winter I rarely do a contact wash. We live in the sticks so the car gets dirty pretty quick!
Video below, IIRC this was after Surfex HD and snow foam. Wheels not waxed.
Video below, IIRC this was after Surfex HD and snow foam. Wheels not waxed.
Crafty_ said:
Some argue that a prewash solution applied with a low pressure pump sprayer is just as effective...
This is certainly what my local (indoor) car wash does, it wets the car through and stays there for the 5mins your waiting to get to the next stage, which is as long as its going to get and probably as long as most foams stay wet? Might be difference in the baking heat of mid-day sun but I woudnt wash my car in that anyway!dhutch said:
This is certainly what my local (indoor) car wash does, it wets the car through and stays there for the 5mins your waiting to get to the next stage, which is as long as its going to get and probably as long as most foams stay wet? Might be difference in the baking heat of mid-day sun but I woudnt wash my car in that anyway!
Except that’s probably a harsh acidic traffic film remover.There are two types of foam; pH neutral, which is all for show and can perhaps be sprayed over a good citrus product (just because it’s a citrus, doesn’t mean it’s good), to keep it wet OR an alkaline product such as Bilt Hamber Autofoam, Bilt Hamber Touch-Less, Autoglanz Spritzer, Garage Therapy Zero V2 etc, which actually clean well when used at the correct panel impact ratio (PIR) of at least 3%.
This raises another issue with some of these foams; they are too thick and dry at 3-5% PIR so they don’t work as effectively as they should as they just sit like a meringue, doing nothing. They need to be a wet, foam with movement so that it pulls the dirt off the car and the bursting bubbles help with capillary action.
Personally, I find the idea of using two products - a citrus and a pH neutral snow foam pointless, when you can just use a Bilt Hamber product which will work better.
That’s why PIR is so important and why Bilt Hamber’s foams are considered thin. They will be very thin when used at the ‘standard’ inch in the bottom of the bottle, which will be far too dilute. For most domestic pressure washers, 4% PIR tends to work out at around 400-500ml of product, with the rest of the litre being water. Saying that, this mix should be able to cover 3 cars or more. Alternatively, you could use the same products in a pump sprayer at the same PIR, use much less product and it will be just as effective. It will dry out quicker in the sun though.
No product can provide a fully touchless wash, especially in winter, but having a well protected car will help your prewash remove as much as possible. It is there to remove as much dirt and grime as possible before the contact wash to reduce the possibility of swiping grit around the car with your wash mitt. PH neutral snowfoams are only really suitable for the summer and a relatively clean car, but even then, meh, I would just use a more dilute version of a Bilt Hamber product.
You should always rinse it off before using a mitt on your car, otherwise you are just swiping the grime, held in solution or still stitch on the paint, all around, causing swirls. If you’re ok with that, use Fairy Liquid as your shampoo and a 50p sponge, then fine, but it’s bad for your paint. By all means, after rinsing the prewash snow foam off, add a shampoo mix to the foam cannon and spray that over the car to aid with the wash. Snowfoams don’t tend to be lubricated enough to do this well.
As with lots of things, it’s about using the right things right.
This raises another issue with some of these foams; they are too thick and dry at 3-5% PIR so they don’t work as effectively as they should as they just sit like a meringue, doing nothing. They need to be a wet, foam with movement so that it pulls the dirt off the car and the bursting bubbles help with capillary action.
Personally, I find the idea of using two products - a citrus and a pH neutral snow foam pointless, when you can just use a Bilt Hamber product which will work better.
That’s why PIR is so important and why Bilt Hamber’s foams are considered thin. They will be very thin when used at the ‘standard’ inch in the bottom of the bottle, which will be far too dilute. For most domestic pressure washers, 4% PIR tends to work out at around 400-500ml of product, with the rest of the litre being water. Saying that, this mix should be able to cover 3 cars or more. Alternatively, you could use the same products in a pump sprayer at the same PIR, use much less product and it will be just as effective. It will dry out quicker in the sun though.
No product can provide a fully touchless wash, especially in winter, but having a well protected car will help your prewash remove as much as possible. It is there to remove as much dirt and grime as possible before the contact wash to reduce the possibility of swiping grit around the car with your wash mitt. PH neutral snowfoams are only really suitable for the summer and a relatively clean car, but even then, meh, I would just use a more dilute version of a Bilt Hamber product.
You should always rinse it off before using a mitt on your car, otherwise you are just swiping the grime, held in solution or still stitch on the paint, all around, causing swirls. If you’re ok with that, use Fairy Liquid as your shampoo and a 50p sponge, then fine, but it’s bad for your paint. By all means, after rinsing the prewash snow foam off, add a shampoo mix to the foam cannon and spray that over the car to aid with the wash. Snowfoams don’t tend to be lubricated enough to do this well.
As with lots of things, it’s about using the right things right.
I am glad to have avoided the Foam , I have looked at it many times and simply kept walking . I am also wary of these Car Wash Jockeys , the Pre Wash is acidic which is why I never go there . A good bucket of hot water , add the Autoglym Green Shampoo and I have the Porsche washed and dried in 30 minutes . Autoglym Rubber Care onto the Tyres and that's pretty much what I watched the old man do when I was a lad .
The only difference is the Drying Cloth I use rather than the Chamois , does anyone Chamois anymore ?
The only difference is the Drying Cloth I use rather than the Chamois , does anyone Chamois anymore ?
Gassing Station | Bodywork & Detailing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff