Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll

[Killboy]

My father in law finally has a date for his knee op. That's around 18 months wait. Going well.

[gangzoom]

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/views/dr-burnt-out/no...

[djc206]

gangzoom said:

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/views/dr-burnt-out/no...

That’s an impressive level of fked

[Gary C]

djc206 said:

gangzoom said:

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/views/dr-burnt-out/no...

That’s an impressive level of fked

I suppose its similar to schools where you have teachers employed as TA's to reduce costs at the sharp end.

[sawman]

gangzoom said:

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/views/dr-burnt-out/no...

Concerning!

almost as much as the fact that 12000 junior docs applied to enter GP training this year, but there are only 4000 training places available, leaving 8000 thinking maybe that should move elsewhere, or take that lucrative job in the city

[gangzoom]

Not many other Uni courses last 5+ years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68534953

[Dixy]

For those that say this is to bring down a tory government I would point out Wales is labour.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4nv9yxv03do

[gangzoom]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68849847

[chemistry]

gangzoom said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68849847

“under immigration rules the NHS cannot prioritise UK-trained students”. Genius, let’s spend 5 years training people then see a good chunk of them leave (ironically, to work overseas in many cases) because we’ve put in place a stupid rule

More generally, my daughter is in her 3rd year at medical school; she and her friends are all painfully aware of the problems with the new system for foundation training. They are also aware that PAs and other lower cost staff are being used throughout the NHS to replace rather than augment - doctors in many situations (and who are then used as ‘liability sponges’). Heading to Australia is becoming the preferred option for many of them, before they even finish their training.

[JagLover]

chemistry said:

“under immigration rules the NHS cannot prioritise UK-trained students”. Genius, let’s spend 5 years training people then see a good chunk of them leave (ironically, to work overseas in many cases) because we’ve put in place a stupid rule

Also the medical degrees here are highly regarded with Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial and King’s College London all featuring in the world top twenty for medicine on one ranking.

Quite why they are not able to prioritise UK trained students is bizarre.

[oddman]

chemistry said:

More generally, my daughter is in her 3rd year at medical school; she and her friends are all painfully aware of the problems with the new system for foundation training. They are also aware that PAs and other lower cost staff are being used throughout the NHS to replace rather than augment - doctors in many situations (and who are then used as ‘liability sponges’). Heading to Australia is becoming the preferred option for many of them, before they even finish their training.

I can't imagine the nightmare of being a trainee these days with the advent of PAs

Being paid less than PAs; having them muscle in on your educational opportunities but ultimately having them hanging off you like parasites when they want to 'check something out'.

That your daughter has already twigged onto this in her third year, a time when when her medical school life should be a blend of enthusiasm and intoxication, is depressing.

[Vanden Saab]

chemistry said:

gangzoom said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68849847

“under immigration rules the NHS cannot prioritise UK-trained students”. Genius, let’s spend 5 years training people then see a good chunk of them leave (ironically, to work overseas in many cases) because we’ve put in place a stupid rule

More generally, my daughter is in her 3rd year at medical school; she and her friends are all painfully aware of the problems with the new system for foundation training. They are also aware that PAs and other lower cost staff are being used throughout the NHS to replace rather than augment - doctors in many situations (and who are then used as ‘liability sponges’). Heading to Australia is becoming the preferred option for many of them, before they even finish their training.

link said:

Previously people were allocated according to merit - with each student ranked according to how they had performed during their studies and in an application test.
But this year that has changed and has been done randomly. The logic behind it was that the previous system was stressful for students and was particularly unfair on those from deprived backgrounds and ethnic minorities.

NHS system that used to work well and is run by senior doctors is changed all in the name of diversity and to reduce stress on applicants and they fk up the whole system. Who are you going to blame.

[borcy]

Used to work well, did it? Were there any winners and losers?

[loafer123]

Allocating randomly does raise the issue of the medical school equivalent of Opie from Family Guy getting Neurosurgery as their placement, which seems, err, inadvisable.

[272BHP]

JagLover said:

Also the medical degrees here are highly regarded with Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial and King’s College London all featuring in the world top twenty for medicine on one ranking.

Quite why they are not able to prioritise UK trained students is bizarre.

Bizarre indeed.

Does anyone know who championed the new scheme?

[Vanden Saab]

272BHP said:

JagLover said:

Also the medical degrees here are highly regarded with Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial and King’s College London all featuring in the world top twenty for medicine on one ranking.

Quite why they are not able to prioritise UK trained students is bizarre.

Bizarre indeed.

Does anyone know who championed the new scheme?

Dr Mike Masding
Dr Tom Lawson
Prof Clare McKenzie
Dr Tony Choules

[Vanden Saab]

borcy said:

Used to work well, did it? Were there any winners and losers?

As the previous system was based on exam results and the entrance test I guess the losers now are those patients who now get a lower quality doctor in areas where high proficiency is needed.

[119]

It's ok.

Kier has a plan when he gets in.

Hasn't he?

[AstonZagato]

chemistry said:

gangzoom said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68849847

“under immigration rules the NHS cannot prioritise UK-trained students”. Genius, let’s spend 5 years training people then see a good chunk of them leave (ironically, to work overseas in many cases) because we’ve put in place a stupid rule

More generally, my daughter is in her 3rd year at medical school; she and her friends are all painfully aware of the problems with the new system for foundation training. They are also aware that PAs and other lower cost staff are being used throughout the NHS to replace rather than augment - doctors in many situations (and who are then used as ‘liability sponges’). Heading to Australia is becoming the preferred option for many of them, before they even finish their training.

My nephew was trained in Edinburgh (he's Scottish) and wanted an unloved remote placement - Highlands or Islands - as he is a keen mountaineer. He could guarantee that, so has taken a course in tropical and expedition medicine and is off to Australia.

The NHS is its own worst enemy sometimes.

[borcy]

Vanden Saab said:

borcy said:

Used to work well, did it? Were there any winners and losers?

As the previous system was based on exam results and the entrance test I guess the losers now are those patients who now get a lower quality doctor in areas where high proficiency is needed.

I'm sure there must be some sort of posting system to move trainee drs about that works.

It seems to be internal to the nhs as in organised by them. Which if its so bad is odd.