Burglary at remote Peak District farm, murder arrest

[Drumroll]

popeyewhite said:

Farmers are extremely fearful of foot and mouth. When the consequences of an infection might be your livelihood ruined, you take an interest in idiot walkers that get themselves lost on your land. Same happened to me, and I got two barrels up my nose and told to quickly leave the property.

Edited by popeyewhite on Friday 3rd May 18:31

Have you any idea what you are talking about?

Me walking through several farmers fields is not going to give cattle foot and mouth.

Infection Control when a herd is known to have Foot & Mouth is something different though.

[Oakey]

Southerner said:

In this day and age of increasing histeria, allowing large swathes of the population to discharge noxious substances at will because they decided they felt threatened would be an absolute zoo. Arguably less so than if they all had handguns, admittedly!

Just watch any of those police docs on TV, they're all too eager to spray someone or taser them if they have a taser.

[Mr Whippy]

hairykrishna said:

Fermit said:

A friend of my fathers is (now a retired) Policeman. He once gave me some advice, to state, if you'd harmed/killed an intruder. 'Officer, he was coming right at me'. They don't like burglars any more than we do.

One of my friends was mugged and defended himself fairly robustly. One of the coppers arresting him said something along the lines of "I expect you thought your life was in danger". A not so subtle hint as to what to say in interview.

I love the crystal-balling needed for these assumptions by police/CPS etc.

Your life is in perpetual danger. If someone suggests they’ll harm you to get your possessions surely they’ve invited the unknown risk factor and can’t be upset when they get a beating.


UK law is a real dogs dinner of bullst.

[Jasandjules]

milkround said:

Don’t take silly… all any home needs is a cuddly guard dog who was originally bred to take on bears as a livestock guardian. I personally would go for something a bit more timid if it’s your first dog though.

We have four of them....... If any burglar gets in, the odds of them getting out again are remote I fear.......

[popeyewhite]

Drumroll said:

Have you any idea what you are talking about?

Well you weren't there and I was, so yes.

[Gareth79]

Bit more info here:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13381511/...

- The second person who fled was arrested after a car they were in was stopped later that day
- Dead teen a "popular [but not promising] footballer"

The local paper is linking to the gofundme!
https://www.buxtonadvertiser.co.uk/news/people/fun...

Local Facebook pages are suggesting they were there to steal plants.

[GT9]

Gareth79 said:

Local Facebook pages are suggesting they were there to steal plants.

That might explain the 'targeted incident' description.
Farmer with shotgun protecting his weed that they tried to steal the previous day potentially puts a different spin on it.

[darreni]

GT9 said:

Gareth79 said:

Local Facebook pages are suggesting they were there to steal plants.

That might explain the 'targeted incident' description.
Farmer with shotgun protecting his weed that they tried to steal the previous day potentially puts a different spin on it.

I'd have thought they meant plant, as in equipment.

[popeyewhite]

darreni said:

GT9 said:

Gareth79 said:

Local Facebook pages are suggesting they were there to steal plants.

That might explain the 'targeted incident' description.
Farmer with shotgun protecting his weed that they tried to steal the previous day potentially puts a different spin on it.

I'd have thought they meant plant, as in equipment.

It's amusing to think a 50 year old divorcee from Whalley B is involved in illegal drug production. The most exciting event in WB is normally too much rain.

[TriumphStag3.0V8]

darreni said:

GT9 said:

Gareth79 said:

Local Facebook pages are suggesting they were there to steal plants.

That might explain the 'targeted incident' description.
Farmer with shotgun protecting his weed that they tried to steal the previous day potentially puts a different spin on it.

I'd have thought they meant plant, as in equipment.

I read it as such as well. If there had been a weed farm at the errrr... farm, then I am pretty sure the police would have mentioned arresting someone for it.

[skwdenyer]

darreni said:

GT9 said:

Gareth79 said:

Local Facebook pages are suggesting they were there to steal plants.

That might explain the 'targeted incident' description.
Farmer with shotgun protecting his weed that they tried to steal the previous day potentially puts a different spin on it.

I'd have thought they meant plant, as in equipment.

I used to live in Whaley Bridge. I can’t speak for there, but where I now am in the Yorkshire Dales thefts of plant and equipment from farms are now an epidemic. Just a few weeks ago, thieves stole a lorry, stole plant, got the lorry stuck and then set fire to the whole lot in an effort to hide their tracks. A few weeks before that, a farm in my village was targeted, and reports come in daily of similar events. Down in Skipton, burglars are known to come on “crime holidays,” staying in AirBnBs or similar and spending their evenings roaming the streets looking for soft targets.

There’s no police presence to speak of: no visible car patrols, no foot patrols, a complete pull-back of all but the largest stations.

Local farms and villages now run their own alert systems to report suspicious vehicles and so on to each other. I suspect it won’t be long before farmers with shotguns on patrol are a common feature.

If you want an indication of how poor belief in the Police is, look at the collapse in the number of Special Constables: even those who want to help don’t seem to want to do so with the current force.

[GT9]

TriumphStag3.0V8 said:

I read it as such as well. If there had been a weed farm at the errrr... farm, then I am pretty sure the police would have mentioned arresting someone for it.

Not going to link to the local FB page but there are dozens of comments referring to 'grow' and 'weed'.
Probably shouldn't have brought it up tbh, speculation, etc.

[chemistry]

MitchT said:

fttm said:

Hopefully the home owner isn't charged . I'm with the majority of decent people on this one , feral low life scum break into your property then their rights are left at the door , no ifs no buts .

Totally this.

The law should simply state that the minute you dismiss the human rights of another by commencing a crime against them, you forfeit your own human rights, and any consequence arising from said crime will be recorded as misadventure.

Absolutely this; if someone actively breaks into an occupied home (as opposed to inadvertently wandering onto a farmers field, or breaking into an unoccupied garden outbuilding, say) then I think the presumption - indeed, expectation - should automatically be that the individuals(s) involved mean harm to the occupants and consequently the occupants/victims should be allowed to use any force necessary to protect themselves, up to and including deadly force.

Broadly speaking I think that is the view the CPS currently takes, but I don't think it would hurt for the guidance to be even more specific and on the side of the victim i.e. I would remove any caveat that a homeowner could face prosecution if they use "very excessive and gratuitous force". How people react in the heat of the moment in these terrifying situations shouldn't be something they have to justify - if you knock a burglar unconscious and then, fearing they might get up again and whilst in a highly distressed state, hit them three more times with a golf club causing a fatal brain bleed, then I'd have no problem with that.

Innocent members of the public minding their own business shouldn't have to justify the degree of force they use if someone breaks into their home and if a burglar doesn't want to risk death via anything up to and including excessive and gratuitous force from a homeowner, then theres a very easy way to avoid it - don't burgle.

[skwdenyer]

GT9 said:

TriumphStag3.0V8 said:

I read it as such as well. If there had been a weed farm at the errrr... farm, then I am pretty sure the police would have mentioned arresting someone for it.

Not going to link to the local FB page but there are dozens of comments referring to 'grow' and 'weed'.
Probably shouldn't have brought it up tbh, speculation, etc.

There are certainly allegations of the dead burglar being involved in the supply of weed to local children.

Can’t see why you wouldn’t link to something on Facebook?

[GT9]

skwdenyer said:

There are certainly allegations of the dead burglar being involved in the supply of weed to local children.

Can’t see why you wouldn’t link to something on Facebook?

Clicking Facebook links when you're not logged in, navigating to the right place, checking the 'all comments' box, etc.
Bound to go wrong.
It's the Buxton Advertiser's page in the article below where they name the farmer and the online fundraising campaign.

Edited by GT9 on Saturday 4th May 14:45

[Biggy Stardust]

chemistry said:

Innocent members of the public minding their own business shouldn't have to justify the degree of force they use if someone breaks into their home and if a burglar doesn't want to risk death via anything up to and including excessive and gratuitous force from a homeowner, then theres a very easy way to avoid it - don't burgle.

We get similar comments from those who try to justify speed cameras. In this case I see the logic.

[Caddyshack]

Oakey said:

Southerner said:

In this day and age of increasing histeria, allowing large swathes of the population to discharge noxious substances at will because they decided they felt threatened would be an absolute zoo. Arguably less so than if they all had handguns, admittedly!

Just watch any of those police docs on TV, they're all too eager to spray someone or taser them if they have a taser.

I watch the police stuff daily with my lunch to avoid the news and I would not agree that they are eager to spray or take, I would say that the naughty and fighty people tend to stop when the taser is pulled out and warned but you very very rarely see them use them.

[Matty3]

Maybe? there is more to this story than a burglary gone wrong.

Visited friends in an adjacent village today and if the local 'news' is true an extraordinary tale

[Caddyshack]

Matty3 said:

Maybe? there is more to this story than a burglary gone wrong.

Visited friends in an adjacent village today and if the local 'news' is true an extraordinary tale

Go on then….what do the locals say? It can’t hurt to tell us what the local story is?

[Chrisgr31]

It appears the burglary on Tuesday was reported to the Police. Surely that wouldnt have happened if there was weed being grown?