The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)
Discussion
GTO-3R said:
Good interview between EtH and G Nev dropped this morning. It's clear that the manager hasn't got the defence that he wants and with 30 different defensive formations this season, it's impossible to play consistently.
He's definitely the man for the job imo and needs time to develop the squad.
What’s the defence he’d like? Martinez was great but permanently injured, Malacia looked rubbish and has missed the whole season anyway. I think where we’re getting to is those who want him to stay hoping for a significant (possibly miraculous) turnaround and those wanting him gone. Both sides will roundly go after the other side when it does t work out how they want. He's definitely the man for the job imo and needs time to develop the squad.
LF5335 said:
What’s the defence he’d like? Martinez was great but permanently injured, Malacia looked rubbish and has missed the whole season anyway. I think where we’re getting to is those who want him to stay hoping for a significant (possibly miraculous) turnaround and those wanting him gone. Both sides will roundly go after the other side when it does t work out how they want.
I suspect right now he would just say a consistent one, and work from there.Consistent with being available week in week out. Anything else is a bonus. He's made such a noise about the constant changes impacting the play that surely just stability, even if it were with Maguire and Evans, would at least allow some more solid play style to develop. Devils advocate though, I know it's only part of a wider issue.
Evans was always a risk injury wise when he signed him, that's fair. Martinez and Malacia not so much I thought, they've just been unlucky. We absolutely should be looking at injury risk as a key metric for incomings though, given the apparent brittleness of the ones we have right now.
Evans was always a risk injury wise when he signed him, that's fair. Martinez and Malacia not so much I thought, they've just been unlucky. We absolutely should be looking at injury risk as a key metric for incomings though, given the apparent brittleness of the ones we have right now.
LF5335 said:
GTO-3R said:
Good interview between EtH and G Nev dropped this morning. It's clear that the manager hasn't got the defence that he wants and with 30 different defensive formations this season, it's impossible to play consistently.
He's definitely the man for the job imo and needs time to develop the squad.
What’s the defence he’d like? Martinez was great but permanently injured, Malacia looked rubbish and has missed the whole season anyway. I think where we’re getting to is those who want him to stay hoping for a significant (possibly miraculous) turnaround and those wanting him gone. Both sides will roundly go after the other side when it does t work out how they want. He's definitely the man for the job imo and needs time to develop the squad.
He always talks about need for a left footed CB and left back. Next season Varane won't be around, so a new CB would come in and perhaps another LB.
As BSTB states you need a constant back 4. The same players playing week in week out. When you don't have that it's a nightmare and causes so many problems
Challo said:
LF5335 said:
GTO-3R said:
Good interview between EtH and G Nev dropped this morning. It's clear that the manager hasn't got the defence that he wants and with 30 different defensive formations this season, it's impossible to play consistently.
He's definitely the man for the job imo and needs time to develop the squad.
What’s the defence he’d like? Martinez was great but permanently injured, Malacia looked rubbish and has missed the whole season anyway. I think where we’re getting to is those who want him to stay hoping for a significant (possibly miraculous) turnaround and those wanting him gone. Both sides will roundly go after the other side when it does t work out how they want. He's definitely the man for the job imo and needs time to develop the squad.
He always talks about need for a left footed CB and left back. Next season Varane won't be around, so a new CB would come in and perhaps another LB.
As BSTB states you need a constant back 4. The same players playing week in week out. When you don't have that it's a nightmare and causes so many problems
J6542 said:
Challo said:
LF5335 said:
GTO-3R said:
Good interview between EtH and G Nev dropped this morning. It's clear that the manager hasn't got the defence that he wants and with 30 different defensive formations this season, it's impossible to play consistently.
He's definitely the man for the job imo and needs time to develop the squad.
What’s the defence he’d like? Martinez was great but permanently injured, Malacia looked rubbish and has missed the whole season anyway. I think where we’re getting to is those who want him to stay hoping for a significant (possibly miraculous) turnaround and those wanting him gone. Both sides will roundly go after the other side when it does t work out how they want. He's definitely the man for the job imo and needs time to develop the squad.
He always talks about need for a left footed CB and left back. Next season Varane won't be around, so a new CB would come in and perhaps another LB.
As BSTB states you need a constant back 4. The same players playing week in week out. When you don't have that it's a nightmare and causes so many problems
While the 7-0 loss to Liverpool was embarrassing it was such a bizarre game.
Challo said:
But was also the same back 4 that played a large chunk of last season together and had the joint 3rd best defensive record.
While the 7-0 loss to Liverpool was embarrassing it was such a bizarre game.
Your not allowed to talk about the positives in here remember? You can only be negative about the club, players and especially the manager.While the 7-0 loss to Liverpool was embarrassing it was such a bizarre game.
GTO-3R said:
Your not allowed to talk about the positives in here remember? You can only be negative about the club, players and especially the manager.
It would be easy to spot the exact opposite too based on some people in here. The reality is that we have had yet another shocking season with little to boast about. LF5335 said:
The reality is that we have had yet another shocking season with little to boast about.
You’re in an FA Cup Final - so it’s not all doom and gloom. As usual with United fans you’re still living in the past. You had a great 25-year spell, but before that you were mostly not all that good, and it’s only since Sky invented football that you have enjoyed prolonged success. You had loads of seasons over many decades where a Cup Final appearance was a good season … so you’ve arrived at your default position, which is no real surprise. Things happen in cycles and you’ll maybe be good enough to challenge again at some point in the future but don’t think success will ever as consistent as it was in those 25 years …uk66fastback said:
You’re in an FA Cup Final - so it’s not all doom and gloom. As usual with United fans you’re still living in the past. You had a great 25-year spell, but before that you were mostly not all that good, and it’s only since Sky invented football that you have enjoyed prolonged success. You had loads of seasons over many decades where a Cup Final appearance was a good season … so you’ve arrived at your default position, which is no real surprise. Things happen in cycles and you’ll maybe be good enough to challenge again at some point in the future but don’t think success will ever as consistent as it was in those 25 years …
You seem to have a default position of “United fans are arrogant” and then work from there. All the time in the 70s and 80s we were not very good. A Cup final wasn’t a good season. It was a poor season. On that basis where we are now is “not very good”. The issue I have is that we aren’t showing any signs of improving. This season has been poor compared to last season. We score fewer goals, conceded more, lose more frequently, got humiliated in Europe, have relied on other teams having poor seasons too to give us our flattering league position and so on.
I don’t expect us to win the PL. I don’t expect us to win the CL. I’d like to see a team that puts up a fight though, even if ultimately we lose. I’d like to see a team that shows some green shoots of a future, I’d like to see a team that is demonstrating a sensible and entertaining style of play. If that’s arrogant, then I think fans of most teams are equally arrogant.
I agree football is cyclical, but tell that to fans of many of the founder clubs of the Football League who are languishing in the lower divisions. How big is their cycle?
There is a decade of monumentally poor decisions to reverse so any green shoots of recovery are going to take time.
Going back to the 70's and 80's, yes we weren't the best team in the league but the difference was that we were properly run. We were very worth watching especially under the Doc and Big Ron. This is a different kettle of fish altogether, it's shambolic and isn't going to be sorted out in an instant.
There are still many painful moments on the way. Big changes aren't going to run smoothly all of the time starting with dumping the players who continually keep throwing successive managers under the bus.
Going back to the 70's and 80's, yes we weren't the best team in the league but the difference was that we were properly run. We were very worth watching especially under the Doc and Big Ron. This is a different kettle of fish altogether, it's shambolic and isn't going to be sorted out in an instant.
There are still many painful moments on the way. Big changes aren't going to run smoothly all of the time starting with dumping the players who continually keep throwing successive managers under the bus.
Gordon Hill said:
There is a decade of monumentally poor decisions to reverse so any green shoots of recovery are going to take time.
Going back to the 70's and 80's, yes we weren't the best team in the league but the difference was that we were properly run. We were very worth watching especially under the Doc and Big Ron. This is a different kettle of fish altogether, it's shambolic and isn't going to be sorted out in an instant.
There are still many painful moments on the way. Big changes aren't going to run smoothly all of the time starting with dumping the players who continually keep throwing successive managers under the bus.
I don’t have a problem with most of that. I’ve been calling for a while to get rid of certain players, but it seems to be viewed as sacrilege to suggest it. I also enjoyed watching United in the 80s and some of the 70s, even it was spectacular failure most of the time, it was certainly fun. Going back to the 70's and 80's, yes we weren't the best team in the league but the difference was that we were properly run. We were very worth watching especially under the Doc and Big Ron. This is a different kettle of fish altogether, it's shambolic and isn't going to be sorted out in an instant.
There are still many painful moments on the way. Big changes aren't going to run smoothly all of the time starting with dumping the players who continually keep throwing successive managers under the bus.
My fear though is that we are constantly at the start of another long term plan to fix things. What we’ve seen so far from ETH doesn’t instil much confidence currently. He may well turn it around, but we seem to be going further backwards. One positive performance is usually followed by 2 or 3 turgid ones.
We’ve won 3 PL games by 2 or more goals all season. Two against Everton, one of those were two penalties. The other, last time out with, two late goals against Sheffield United. That’s it.
Make of that what you will.
Edited by LF5335 on Saturday 4th May 10:00
I firmly believe that most managers should get 3 years to implement their style etc on a team that is in need of refresh/rebuild.
I do think we have been ridiculously unlucky with both injuries (72 seperate injuries ,350 missed games due to injuries ,a different back 4 that’s had to be changed 32 times ) these are astonishing numbers .
I also think the amount of bad decisions in games has been incredible , we literally see a bad decision go against us and the next day an identical decision in another match go the other way . Now whether the performances merit a result is another issue but to see for example the penalty given for handball by AWB and literally see two different decisions given in two other games for more or less identical circumstances is a joke ,and it has been all season and I think ETH actually needs to speak up about it .
So should ETH stay ? I am not sure despite the above and the reason is what we see currently is actually how he wants/insists on playing ,he wants this chaotic style and regardless of who he signs /sells etc this is what we will continue to see .
The only saving grace I can really see is I’m not convinced there are many great alternatives out there .
I do think we have been ridiculously unlucky with both injuries (72 seperate injuries ,350 missed games due to injuries ,a different back 4 that’s had to be changed 32 times ) these are astonishing numbers .
I also think the amount of bad decisions in games has been incredible , we literally see a bad decision go against us and the next day an identical decision in another match go the other way . Now whether the performances merit a result is another issue but to see for example the penalty given for handball by AWB and literally see two different decisions given in two other games for more or less identical circumstances is a joke ,and it has been all season and I think ETH actually needs to speak up about it .
So should ETH stay ? I am not sure despite the above and the reason is what we see currently is actually how he wants/insists on playing ,he wants this chaotic style and regardless of who he signs /sells etc this is what we will continue to see .
The only saving grace I can really see is I’m not convinced there are many great alternatives out there .
We get some iffy decisions in our favour too though. Maybe not as many, maybe more, but it’s certainly not one way traffic. Do all the bad decisions always cost us points as well. The Wolves one for example saved us 2 points whereas the AWB handball just meant an extra 30 mins of play and penalties.
Just examples.
The overriding piece for me is the style you say he wants to play. If it’s true then we are in for a very painful ride. I agree though that there are no real candidates out there. Liverpool settling for Slot shows that.
Just examples.
The overriding piece for me is the style you say he wants to play. If it’s true then we are in for a very painful ride. I agree though that there are no real candidates out there. Liverpool settling for Slot shows that.
LF5335 said:
We get some iffy decisions in our favour too though. Maybe not as many, maybe more, but it’s certainly not one way traffic. Do all the bad decisions always cost us points as well. The Wolves one for example saved us 2 points whereas the AWB handball just meant an extra 30 mins of play and penalties.
Just examples.
The overriding piece for me is the style you say he wants to play. If it’s true then we are in for a very painful ride. I agree though that there are no real candidates out there. Liverpool settling for Slot shows that.
But we literally don’t get anywhere near those sort of decisions in our favour , and invariably most of those decisions do cost us .Just examples.
The overriding piece for me is the style you say he wants to play. If it’s true then we are in for a very painful ride. I agree though that there are no real candidates out there. Liverpool settling for Slot shows that.
Var decisions for every team over the last few years cluster around 0 ,the worst a team can expect is 2 or 3 decisions overall to go against you in a season .At one point this season we were -12 and I stopped keeping tabs so ridiculous was it .
Var is part of the picture ,offside is offside but I am more talking about debatable stuff handballs and the like .Theres a load of videos around which demonstrate this quite clearly .
Earlier this season you have dermott Gallagher telling you on tv why Onana punching the wolves player was a blatant penalty but then you have him last year talking about a worse incident and saying it’s not a penalty . Last week Onana missed the ball and caught a player so penalty ,next day same story but no penalty .
You had the press and people like klopp talking about those decisions (Onana ) and that plants things in peoples minds and ten hag hasn’t pointed this out
franki68 said:
But we literally don’t get anywhere near those sort of decisions in our favour , and invariably most of those decisions do cost us .
Var decisions for every team over the last few years cluster around 0 ,the worst a team can expect is 2 or 3 decisions overall to go against you in a season .At one point this season we were -12 and I stopped keeping tabs so ridiculous was it .
Var is part of the picture ,offside is offside but I am more talking about debatable stuff handballs and the like .Theres a load of videos around which demonstrate this quite clearly .
Earlier this season you have dermott Gallagher telling you on tv why Onana punching the wolves player was a blatant penalty but then you have him last year talking about a worse incident and saying it’s not a penalty . Last week Onana missed the ball and caught a player so penalty ,next day same story but no penalty .
You had the press and people like klopp talking about those decisions (Onana ) and that plants things in peoples minds and ten hag hasn’t pointed this out
I agree that ETH is a bit too placid when it comes to things going against us. Some might say he’s being calm and collected, I see it as a bit weak, almost submissive to the other managers. Var decisions for every team over the last few years cluster around 0 ,the worst a team can expect is 2 or 3 decisions overall to go against you in a season .At one point this season we were -12 and I stopped keeping tabs so ridiculous was it .
Var is part of the picture ,offside is offside but I am more talking about debatable stuff handballs and the like .Theres a load of videos around which demonstrate this quite clearly .
Earlier this season you have dermott Gallagher telling you on tv why Onana punching the wolves player was a blatant penalty but then you have him last year talking about a worse incident and saying it’s not a penalty . Last week Onana missed the ball and caught a player so penalty ,next day same story but no penalty .
You had the press and people like klopp talking about those decisions (Onana ) and that plants things in peoples minds and ten hag hasn’t pointed this out
The VAR +/- thing is always confusing. Is it what VAR take off you and are correct to do so, or what they give for you and are correct to do so, or the ones they’ve got wrong / missed only?
LF5335 said:
The VAR +/- thing is always confusing. Is it what VAR take off you and are correct to do so, or what they give for you and are correct to do so, or the ones they’ve got wrong / missed only?
It’s when VAR intervenes, so VAR could have got them all right and you’ve had no reason to moan other than the standard of the refsAdam. said:
It’s when VAR intervenes, so VAR could have got them all right and you’ve had no reason to moan other than the standard of the refs
So if you’re -10 or +10 what does it actually mean? As in what’s the difference? Does it mean VAR have taken 10 potentialPoints off you by interfering but all those decisions could be correct. Whereas the other means VAR have intervened and have given you 10 points that the ref didn’t and all were correct. Whereas someone else could have -10 and all the VAR decisions are controversial. The same for +10?
If so, the number in isolation means nothing.
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