987.1 Cayman S - First Foray into the world of Porsche
Discussion
Missus was away this weekend in my daily (Octavia vRS TDi estate) because of the amount of stuff she had to take so I spent the weekend bumbling around in this, which was just grand! The air-conditioning is absolutely beautiful with no noticeable heat soak into the cabin, even in standing traffic in 30+ degrees. Very comfortable and a pleasure to be in. Covered about 300-400 miles in it so far.
Few jobs done this weekend. New fuel cap first. Tether for the old one had rotted off, which annoyed me. Easy fix.
Then I set out to do the brake fluid. Maybe I made a bit of a meal of it, but it took a while as I went round the whole car ensuring all 8 bleed nipples loosened freely before I did anything else. And the back wheels only came off with a fight, figure they haven't been off for a while. Nevertheless, flushed through with fresh RBF660 which has made a huge change to the pedal. Lovely, firm and confidence inspiring.
It had DOT 5.1 in it previously going by service invoices from the specialist who looked after it. Wasn't impressed with it on my BMW, not impressed with it now. Especially with advised 6 monthly changes, for a road or dual purpose road/track car it doesn't make a lot of sense compared with a good high performance DOT 4. RBF660 is adequately cheap and has always given me great pedal feel compared with other popular DOT 4s I've used, and AP DOT 5.1 too.
Nevertheless, something else I noticed - outer bleed nipples were all much cleaner and freer than the inner ones. Does this suggest previous servicing has only used the outer nipples for bleeding? Is this common? Workshop manual says both, outer then inner at each caliper in the correct order so that's what I did.
I noticed the wheels are fitted with spacers - 12 mm on the rear I think, all good, and 5 mm on the front. On the front, this doesn't leave much hub for the wheel to sit on! This is something that might concern me for track use, but then it seems Porsche fitted some wheels with 5 mm spacers on these as OEM - so surely must be okay right? Anyone in the know here?
Oh yeah, nearside rear tyre had two massive screws in it too. I'll need to get that sorted
Few jobs done this weekend. New fuel cap first. Tether for the old one had rotted off, which annoyed me. Easy fix.
Then I set out to do the brake fluid. Maybe I made a bit of a meal of it, but it took a while as I went round the whole car ensuring all 8 bleed nipples loosened freely before I did anything else. And the back wheels only came off with a fight, figure they haven't been off for a while. Nevertheless, flushed through with fresh RBF660 which has made a huge change to the pedal. Lovely, firm and confidence inspiring.
It had DOT 5.1 in it previously going by service invoices from the specialist who looked after it. Wasn't impressed with it on my BMW, not impressed with it now. Especially with advised 6 monthly changes, for a road or dual purpose road/track car it doesn't make a lot of sense compared with a good high performance DOT 4. RBF660 is adequately cheap and has always given me great pedal feel compared with other popular DOT 4s I've used, and AP DOT 5.1 too.
Nevertheless, something else I noticed - outer bleed nipples were all much cleaner and freer than the inner ones. Does this suggest previous servicing has only used the outer nipples for bleeding? Is this common? Workshop manual says both, outer then inner at each caliper in the correct order so that's what I did.
I noticed the wheels are fitted with spacers - 12 mm on the rear I think, all good, and 5 mm on the front. On the front, this doesn't leave much hub for the wheel to sit on! This is something that might concern me for track use, but then it seems Porsche fitted some wheels with 5 mm spacers on these as OEM - so surely must be okay right? Anyone in the know here?
Oh yeah, nearside rear tyre had two massive screws in it too. I'll need to get that sorted
Edited by motorhole on Sunday 14th August 21:59
Long overdue update and a story of both success and failures...
October:
It began with tackling the rear discs and pads. Decided to do the nearside first, given that I would've expected most seizing of bolts etc to be more profound on that side as it probably receives most in the way of filth. It went perfectly. So I was all gee'd up for tackling the offside.
Second caliper bolt felt a bit gnarly as it wound out. Came out with a load of aluminium in the threads and part of a helicoil. Nice - thread previously stripped. Not only that, the helicoil repair had been drilled ever so slightly off square - which probably explained the aluminium in the threads at the end of the nut and the binding that caused the helicoil to partially back out. Repaired badly. So now I was stuck with a non-functional car on my drive...
Long story short, chucked it back together and stuck it in the garage until I could get an engineer out to sort it. Finally, a couple weeks later, I had it all back together. First drive out to bed in the brakes, lost gears some 10 miles from home. AA man came out, gear cable had popped off the gearbox so he managed to secure it to get me home, then it went into Ninemeister for some new cables. Drove way better when I got it back.
November:
Due to being away on holiday, family engagements and with work, didn't get much use out of the car. Faith in it very much shaken at this point.
December & January:
Much like November, but at least got out in it with the missus for a nice night away at my work's Christmas party. Also, after discovering an egg on the sidewall of my daily, it was forced into service for an overnight trip in the Pennines too. All good, and it was really nice to spend some time with it.
Also as I do intend to track the car, I picked up an oil pressure gauge with user-defined alarm function and used it to replace the sport chrono stopwatch. I used a remote take-off to put the sensor in the spare port at the back of the nearside cylinder head. It's rather tight in there! Getting everything in place and nipped up tight needed some ingenuity. Also - why did Porsche use steel fuel rails? The aluminium ones on the BMW M52 look like new after 20 years and 200k miles. Value engineering? Or does the steel have a functional benefit? Anyway, brought the loom through the bulkhead and looked for a switched 12v source (the sport chrono stop watch receives a permanent live, which is annoying as otherwise you'd jest need a plug adapter). After removing a few panels, I thought 'screw this' and put it all back together again. Yes, I've rewired an entire car before. But a stripped out saloon car is a rather different proposition to a compact, fully trimmed sports car. I decided to leave that bit to those who know what they're doing with these cars.
February:
When I'd bought the rear brake pad bits, I'd also bought all the bits to refresh the front suspension; coffin arms, drop links, top mounts, tuning forks. As well as new discs and Bluestuff pads. After that lot sitting in my garage while the weather was rubbish and fearing another stripped bolt saga, I caved and dropped the lot off at Ninemeister, and got them to wire in the gauge. With proper alignment and new parts on the front, it feels really fresh and tight. And the gauge has been done properly through the OEM fusebox with its own fuse. Clean as a factory installation.
So I did some miles! Best part of 200 miles since I got it back. Loving it.
So what's next? At 72k miles the AOS is probably overdue; even thought it seems to be functioning fine, allegedly track abuse can quickly kill an old one. So a new genuine AOS and lines have been ordered. Then time to get some laps in at Oulton I think and see how it deals under duress
October:
It began with tackling the rear discs and pads. Decided to do the nearside first, given that I would've expected most seizing of bolts etc to be more profound on that side as it probably receives most in the way of filth. It went perfectly. So I was all gee'd up for tackling the offside.
Second caliper bolt felt a bit gnarly as it wound out. Came out with a load of aluminium in the threads and part of a helicoil. Nice - thread previously stripped. Not only that, the helicoil repair had been drilled ever so slightly off square - which probably explained the aluminium in the threads at the end of the nut and the binding that caused the helicoil to partially back out. Repaired badly. So now I was stuck with a non-functional car on my drive...
Long story short, chucked it back together and stuck it in the garage until I could get an engineer out to sort it. Finally, a couple weeks later, I had it all back together. First drive out to bed in the brakes, lost gears some 10 miles from home. AA man came out, gear cable had popped off the gearbox so he managed to secure it to get me home, then it went into Ninemeister for some new cables. Drove way better when I got it back.
November:
Due to being away on holiday, family engagements and with work, didn't get much use out of the car. Faith in it very much shaken at this point.
December & January:
Much like November, but at least got out in it with the missus for a nice night away at my work's Christmas party. Also, after discovering an egg on the sidewall of my daily, it was forced into service for an overnight trip in the Pennines too. All good, and it was really nice to spend some time with it.
Also as I do intend to track the car, I picked up an oil pressure gauge with user-defined alarm function and used it to replace the sport chrono stopwatch. I used a remote take-off to put the sensor in the spare port at the back of the nearside cylinder head. It's rather tight in there! Getting everything in place and nipped up tight needed some ingenuity. Also - why did Porsche use steel fuel rails? The aluminium ones on the BMW M52 look like new after 20 years and 200k miles. Value engineering? Or does the steel have a functional benefit? Anyway, brought the loom through the bulkhead and looked for a switched 12v source (the sport chrono stop watch receives a permanent live, which is annoying as otherwise you'd jest need a plug adapter). After removing a few panels, I thought 'screw this' and put it all back together again. Yes, I've rewired an entire car before. But a stripped out saloon car is a rather different proposition to a compact, fully trimmed sports car. I decided to leave that bit to those who know what they're doing with these cars.
February:
When I'd bought the rear brake pad bits, I'd also bought all the bits to refresh the front suspension; coffin arms, drop links, top mounts, tuning forks. As well as new discs and Bluestuff pads. After that lot sitting in my garage while the weather was rubbish and fearing another stripped bolt saga, I caved and dropped the lot off at Ninemeister, and got them to wire in the gauge. With proper alignment and new parts on the front, it feels really fresh and tight. And the gauge has been done properly through the OEM fusebox with its own fuse. Clean as a factory installation.
So I did some miles! Best part of 200 miles since I got it back. Loving it.
So what's next? At 72k miles the AOS is probably overdue; even thought it seems to be functioning fine, allegedly track abuse can quickly kill an old one. So a new genuine AOS and lines have been ordered. Then time to get some laps in at Oulton I think and see how it deals under duress
Glad it is all coming together.
Just renewed my AOS on my 87K mile Boxster. as far as I am aware, I had the original one fitted.
When tracking, all well while driving, but after the car was parked up for half an hour on restart, lots of white smoke that disappears within a minute. Hence new AOS fitted and hopefully solves that problem.
Just renewed my AOS on my 87K mile Boxster. as far as I am aware, I had the original one fitted.
When tracking, all well while driving, but after the car was parked up for half an hour on restart, lots of white smoke that disappears within a minute. Hence new AOS fitted and hopefully solves that problem.
phazed said:
Glad it is all coming together.
Just renewed my AOS on my 87K mile Boxster. as far as I am aware, I had the original one fitted.
When tracking, all well while driving, but after the car was parked up for half an hour on restart, lots of white smoke that disappears within a minute. Hence new AOS fitted and hopefully solves that problem.
Hope so! What flavour boxster do you have?Just renewed my AOS on my 87K mile Boxster. as far as I am aware, I had the original one fitted.
When tracking, all well while driving, but after the car was parked up for half an hour on restart, lots of white smoke that disappears within a minute. Hence new AOS fitted and hopefully solves that problem.
Thanks. I do love it.
Here’s a little clip from Cadwell Park last September. Needs another 100 BHP I reckon!
https://youtu.be/F3QJhBpklPQ
Here’s a little clip from Cadwell Park last September. Needs another 100 BHP I reckon!
https://youtu.be/F3QJhBpklPQ
Replaced the AOS last weekend. Ended up being a pretty straightforward job, but ratcheting hose clip pliers make it so much easier. Then it was Oulton Park on 17th March. I took the father-in-law along for some laps too as he enjoyed his time out in the E30 last year (even if it did beat him up a bit!).
A day of many red flags (8 by lunchtime iirc and I think 12 by close of play? Very unusual for Oulton Park). Track was damp to start out, but quickly dried out giving me the chance to get a feel for things. Without going into too much detail - car was great, plenty grip, brakes, reasonably quick. But I just couldn't get on it...why? The oil pressue gauge scared the cr*p out of me. It was dropping to 10 psi round some of the bends and I didn't even feel like I was pushing that hard...
Lodge was the worst, probably followed by the first right into Knickerbrook complex. But if I tried getting on it, I saw it drop pretty much everywhere except Cascades & Island. Holy oil surge batman! So I capped my entry and apex speeds for most of the day. Yes I know lot's of folk have tracked them and not had issues - but no gauge, no awareness of the problem. Treat an engine to repeated events like that and it's only a matter of time before a bearing catches and spins. It's a little disappointing given I was only on OEM sized PS4S, but I'll sort the issue with an aftermarket sump and a 50-weight oil before I go pushing the boundaries.
Still, I got what I wanted from it - car was super easy to drive quickly and never missed a beat. It was also a lot more economical on track than the E30 - an unexpected positive - and I wasn't dreading the drive home through Warrington's awful stop-start traffic either
Some (slow!) video footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRjvYnPFHHY
A day of many red flags (8 by lunchtime iirc and I think 12 by close of play? Very unusual for Oulton Park). Track was damp to start out, but quickly dried out giving me the chance to get a feel for things. Without going into too much detail - car was great, plenty grip, brakes, reasonably quick. But I just couldn't get on it...why? The oil pressue gauge scared the cr*p out of me. It was dropping to 10 psi round some of the bends and I didn't even feel like I was pushing that hard...
Lodge was the worst, probably followed by the first right into Knickerbrook complex. But if I tried getting on it, I saw it drop pretty much everywhere except Cascades & Island. Holy oil surge batman! So I capped my entry and apex speeds for most of the day. Yes I know lot's of folk have tracked them and not had issues - but no gauge, no awareness of the problem. Treat an engine to repeated events like that and it's only a matter of time before a bearing catches and spins. It's a little disappointing given I was only on OEM sized PS4S, but I'll sort the issue with an aftermarket sump and a 50-weight oil before I go pushing the boundaries.
Still, I got what I wanted from it - car was super easy to drive quickly and never missed a beat. It was also a lot more economical on track than the E30 - an unexpected positive - and I wasn't dreading the drive home through Warrington's awful stop-start traffic either
Some (slow!) video footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRjvYnPFHHY
I run a Millers 10/50 Motorsport oil in my 987.1 and run Triple 8’s on it.
Never had any oil pressure issues, but there again I haven’t got a gauge! Your experience is a bit worrying.
Have contemplated the extended baffled sump so maybe I should bite the bullet.
By comparison, on my track ready 1.8T Octávia, I fitted a baffled sump before tracking it and have done a dozen track days per year in the last two years without missing a beat, so hopefully it is doing its job! Just to say with the Octávia, it is driven flat out all the time on triple 8’s.
Never had any oil pressure issues, but there again I haven’t got a gauge! Your experience is a bit worrying.
Have contemplated the extended baffled sump so maybe I should bite the bullet.
By comparison, on my track ready 1.8T Octávia, I fitted a baffled sump before tracking it and have done a dozen track days per year in the last two years without missing a beat, so hopefully it is doing its job! Just to say with the Octávia, it is driven flat out all the time on triple 8’s.
phazed said:
I run a Millers 10/50 Motorsport oil in my 987.1 and run Triple 8’s on it.
Never had any oil pressure issues, but there again I haven’t got a gauge! Your experience is a bit worrying.
Have contemplated the extended baffled sump so maybe I should bite the bullet.
By comparison, on my track ready 1.8T Octávia, I fitted a baffled sump before tracking it and have done a dozen track days per year in the last two years without missing a beat, so hopefully it is doing its job! Just to say with the Octávia, it is driven flat out all the time on triple 8’s.
Shame you can't read the gauge in the videos!Never had any oil pressure issues, but there again I haven’t got a gauge! Your experience is a bit worrying.
Have contemplated the extended baffled sump so maybe I should bite the bullet.
By comparison, on my track ready 1.8T Octávia, I fitted a baffled sump before tracking it and have done a dozen track days per year in the last two years without missing a beat, so hopefully it is doing its job! Just to say with the Octávia, it is driven flat out all the time on triple 8’s.
Yeah I saw surge in my E30 too, mostly under hard braking. In that though, aftermarket baffles for the E34 sump (used on an E30 when using the later 24v engines) looked like they'd do nothing for braking. So I designed & made my own and it worked perfectly when driven hard on track rubber, braking, cornering the lot. Oil management looks like a rather more complicated subject in a flat engine though. And I think the heavier weight oil makes a difference as pressure drops definitely got larger after the first couple laps when the oil was hotter and less viscous. So the 10W50 is a good shout
Thought I'd give this a nudge as I want to do track days in my 987.1 Cayman S I've just picked up.
My shopping list was going to be:
- Low Temp Thermostat
- Centre Radiator kit - As I intend to fit zunsport grills
- TRW PMN166 Master Cylinder (997 GT3 part)
- Millers 10w50 CFS NT+ Oil Change
- Bigger Baffled Sump
I've put links above to the cheapest places I've found for the above, but interested how you've got on. My car was borescope clear for any scoring when I got it a few weeks ago and I want to keep it that way ! (just over 70k miles).
I've found a few people who say the centre radiator makes a significant difference over just the low temp thermostat, and kept the oil temperatures below 100 on track, which I guess will obviously help pressure.
I'm a bit torn on what sump to go for - did you ever change yours?
My shopping list was going to be:
- Low Temp Thermostat
- Centre Radiator kit - As I intend to fit zunsport grills
- TRW PMN166 Master Cylinder (997 GT3 part)
- Millers 10w50 CFS NT+ Oil Change
- Bigger Baffled Sump
I've put links above to the cheapest places I've found for the above, but interested how you've got on. My car was borescope clear for any scoring when I got it a few weeks ago and I want to keep it that way ! (just over 70k miles).
I've found a few people who say the centre radiator makes a significant difference over just the low temp thermostat, and kept the oil temperatures below 100 on track, which I guess will obviously help pressure.
I'm a bit torn on what sump to go for - did you ever change yours?
conanius said:
Thought I'd give this a nudge as I want to do track days in my 987.1 Cayman S I've just picked up.
My shopping list was going to be:
- Low Temp Thermostat
- Centre Radiator kit - As I intend to fit zunsport grills
- TRW PMN166 Master Cylinder (997 GT3 part)
- Millers 10w50 CFS NT+ Oil Change
- Bigger Baffled Sump
I've put links above to the cheapest places I've found for the above, but interested how you've got on. My car was borescope clear for any scoring when I got it a few weeks ago and I want to keep it that way ! (just over 70k miles).
I've found a few people who say the centre radiator makes a significant difference over just the low temp thermostat, and kept the oil temperatures below 100 on track, which I guess will obviously help pressure.
I'm a bit torn on what sump to go for - did you ever change yours?
Another long overdue update and an opportunity to answer your question! I went with the Hartech deep sump. It is certainly not the cheapest, but the reason for my decision were the various data traces from the US from 986 race cars on slicks demonstrating its effectiveness. I've done two trackdays since fitting it and the oil pressure gauge has not alarmed on either (32 psi). Clearly a decent bit of kit. My shopping list was going to be:
- Low Temp Thermostat
- Centre Radiator kit - As I intend to fit zunsport grills
- TRW PMN166 Master Cylinder (997 GT3 part)
- Millers 10w50 CFS NT+ Oil Change
- Bigger Baffled Sump
I've put links above to the cheapest places I've found for the above, but interested how you've got on. My car was borescope clear for any scoring when I got it a few weeks ago and I want to keep it that way ! (just over 70k miles).
I've found a few people who say the centre radiator makes a significant difference over just the low temp thermostat, and kept the oil temperatures below 100 on track, which I guess will obviously help pressure.
I'm a bit torn on what sump to go for - did you ever change yours?
Unlike yours, a borsecope revealed some scoring in 4, 5 and 6 on mine with 6 being the worst (typical). Other than some oil usage, there are no symptoms as yet but I intend to use this as an opportunity for a 3.7 or 3.9 build, perhaps over winter.
I also have more upgrades inbound. A set of KW v3s, adjustable rear toe control arms and a GT3 master cylinder. Hopefully get all of these fitted this month. I'm going down to some lightweight 18" wheels too to reduce unsprung weight, offset some of the harshness of the coilovers with additional sidewall and to reduce tyre costs. After that, a couple of Scotland trips and a couple more trackdays in order I think before the rebuild!
Some video from last time out at Oulton. Yes, it was quiet. Road car only trackdays are the way forward here. MSV run a few a year and in my experience, for all the moaning on here about race cars on trackdays, nobody turns up to the road car days. So lots of clear track and a free garage for those who do
Almost felt like a private day. Enjoy.https://youtu.be/51GhoLrx9hQ?si=pUiS5wM8j0oA6FHP
https://youtu.be/jANSTC2cJWY?si=WfLlYmoRdcP_h-xC
Shame that you’ve suffered scoring -how bad is the oil consumption?
A Hartech 3.9 will be very nice
My Cayman S was on 65,000 odd and no issues I knew of,oil consumption was negligible,unfortunately it was written off late last year.
I’ve gone back to my roots and bought an old mini
I did love my Porsche though-I spent a lot of time and money rebuilding the suspension and lowering it,did it all myself,and learnt a lot in the process.I’ll have another at some point!
A Hartech 3.9 will be very nice
My Cayman S was on 65,000 odd and no issues I knew of,oil consumption was negligible,unfortunately it was written off late last year.
I’ve gone back to my roots and bought an old mini
I did love my Porsche though-I spent a lot of time and money rebuilding the suspension and lowering it,did it all myself,and learnt a lot in the process.I’ll have another at some point!
Edited by and31 on Saturday 4th May 18:19
and31 said:
Shame that you’ve suffered scoring -how bad is the oil consumption?
A Hartech 3.9 will be very nice
My Cayman S was on 65,000 odd and no issues I knew of,oil consumption was negligible,unfortunately it was written off late last year.
I’ve gone back to my roots and bought an old mini
I did love my Porsche though-I spent a lot of time and money rebuilding the suspension and lowering it,did it all myself,and learnt a lot in the process.I’ll have another at some point!
Looks stunning that! Definitely need to get a paint correction and professional detail done on mine at some point...A Hartech 3.9 will be very nice
My Cayman S was on 65,000 odd and no issues I knew of,oil consumption was negligible,unfortunately it was written off late last year.
I’ve gone back to my roots and bought an old mini
I did love my Porsche though-I spent a lot of time and money rebuilding the suspension and lowering it,did it all myself,and learnt a lot in the process.I’ll have another at some point!
Edited by and31 on Saturday 4th May 18:19
My main concern with a 3.9 is the additional crank cost - circa £2k for a decent used one (if one can be found) or £4k new from Porsche as a huge chunk of cost on top of the rebuild cost. Not a problem if it turns out a crank is needed anyway, but in most cases that don't concern main/big end or IMS bearing failure, it's not. Plus in principle, a 3.7 should be more rev happy. Will need to start asking around for services offered.
motorhole said:
Another long overdue update and an opportunity to answer your question!
Thanks for the really useful reply. I've got my centre radiator kit and just need to get it and other parts fitted.Obvious answer inbound I'm sure, did you get the deep sump from Hartech direct? Do you mind saying how much it was?
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