2001 Honda Insight ZE1 - Citrus Yellow
Discussion
Is there much scope for improvement of the electrical components on these? (Modern LioN batteries, better motor etc) I've been having a conversation in another thread about EV and the subject of tuning seems to be one thats a bit vague in the EV world, with suggestions made that the long warranty makes people only comfortable with changing cosmetic items. Given the Insight is something of a classic these days, I wondered if the sort of chaps who tinker with the Sinclair C5 (battery and motor Upgrades are common and well documented) had found the aging Hybrid and had a play?
Spinakerr said:
Thanks all - a new NiCaD pack refurbished by a UK expert is around 2k. There are Li experiments and batches in the US and the enthusiast world but I'll stick with the vanilla version for now...
Yeah, might have to go that way. Peter was offering a Lithium conversion earlier in the year, but there were only a limited number of packs available.
I kinda wish I just did that then sold my good IMA battery to someone else to part pay for it.
I’ve just stumbled across this!
My observations:
- I prefer the period longer aerial
- Look at Angelwax Vision (glass cleaner) and H2GO (repellent) for the glass. It’ll be long lasting and so satisfying.
Spinakerr said:
The joy of a new vehicle and those first easy fixes, lulling you into a false sense of progress and inextricably weaving a commitment that will lead to heart over wallet purchases in future...
I love this line… see all my threads for validation. It doesn’t make us any saner, unfortunately!My observations:
- I prefer the period longer aerial
- Look at Angelwax Vision (glass cleaner) and H2GO (repellent) for the glass. It’ll be long lasting and so satisfying.
bolidemichael said:
I’ve just stumbled across this!
.
I think I will print that out and attach it to my toolbox. Spinakerr said:
The joy of a new vehicle and those first easy fixes, lulling you into a false sense of progress and inextricably weaving a commitment that will lead to heart over wallet purchases in future...
I love this line… see all my threads for validation. It doesn’t make us any saner, unfortunately!.
-Ad- said:
Yeah, might have to go that way.
Peter was offering a Lithium conversion earlier in the year, but there were only a limited number of packs available.
I kinda wish I just did that then sold my good IMA battery to someone else to part pay for it.
I would have bought your old pack!Peter was offering a Lithium conversion earlier in the year, but there were only a limited number of packs available.
I kinda wish I just did that then sold my good IMA battery to someone else to part pay for it.
[
bolidemichael said:
I love this line… see all my threads for validation. It doesn’t make us any saner, unfortunately!
My observations:
- I prefer the period longer aerial
- Look at Angelwax Vision (glass cleaner) and H2GO (repellent) for the glass. It’ll be long lasting and so satisfying.
My observations:
- I prefer the period longer aerial
- Look at Angelwax Vision (glass cleaner) and H2GO (repellent) for the glass. It’ll be long lasting and so satisfying.
Cambs_Stuart said:
I think I will print that out and attach it to my toolbox.
Ha! I think we're all in the club here of spending too much time and money on a vehicle, but what else would we be doing?Appreciate the tips on the glass. Unfortnately this car does have the signature Insight leaks in the rear, so H2GO will be on my list. Longer aerials... we'll see... it might be quite fun to find an even longer one for the Jetsons/Futurama feeling!
The Insight ticked off another 250 miles this weekend on various errands and a trip to Somerset.
First up on Saturday morning was Micheldever tyres to replace the ancient rear tyres with Hankook Kinergy Eco2 at 165/65/R14...
Unfortuanetly we caught them just before lunch, or something, and it took almost 1.5 hours...
Plenty of time to have a good poke around the underside and note a polybushed suspension, drums and springs in good order. The rear beam and hub rdefinitely need derustification and painting - probably next summer, but on the list.
Returning on Sunday a package was ready for me - an aluminium gearknob, weighted at 120g to be close to the original. It screwed straight on with a supplied adaptor and is far nice than the 195k plastic original.
With the IMA and CEL light back on, I scrolled through the forums to find out how to read the 'blink' codes from the dashboard to narrow down the issue.
On UK cars, a connector the passenger side can be unclipped and shorted to prompt a playback on the dashboard of flashing lights that can be decoded.
The result was a single code... IMA 66, also known as P1568, or the snappily named Battery Module Individual Voltage Input Problem.
I've sent this off to Peter Perkins to see what can be done... after another grid charge the car managed 120 miles at normal assisted operation before the IMA light came on...
First up on Saturday morning was Micheldever tyres to replace the ancient rear tyres with Hankook Kinergy Eco2 at 165/65/R14...
Unfortuanetly we caught them just before lunch, or something, and it took almost 1.5 hours...
Plenty of time to have a good poke around the underside and note a polybushed suspension, drums and springs in good order. The rear beam and hub rdefinitely need derustification and painting - probably next summer, but on the list.
Returning on Sunday a package was ready for me - an aluminium gearknob, weighted at 120g to be close to the original. It screwed straight on with a supplied adaptor and is far nice than the 195k plastic original.
With the IMA and CEL light back on, I scrolled through the forums to find out how to read the 'blink' codes from the dashboard to narrow down the issue.
On UK cars, a connector the passenger side can be unclipped and shorted to prompt a playback on the dashboard of flashing lights that can be decoded.
The result was a single code... IMA 66, also known as P1568, or the snappily named Battery Module Individual Voltage Input Problem.
I've sent this off to Peter Perkins to see what can be done... after another grid charge the car managed 120 miles at normal assisted operation before the IMA light came on...
Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 22 October 22:08
theicemario said:
Never having seen one of these before, this morning I spotted two Citrus Yellow ones within 10 minutes, near Silverstone. Came to check this thread to see which was one was the OP’s, turns out neither. One was a 51 plate and the other an 02. Bizarre 
Are you absolutely sure you hadn't strayed onto the set of Back To The Future 4? Or maybe the new Blade Runner series? That's truly a 'what are the chances!' with so few on the road!The Christmas lights have gone up early, with driving now populated by IMA, CEL, SRS, fuel light permanent and occasionally a flickering red battery symbol. Being an MG 260 owner (at least, on paper, I have no idea when it will be back...) the flickering red battery light istotally normal.
One little fix completed - the heater temperature knob, in all its 90s Rotel/Quad hi fi greatness, has been rescued by some gorilla glue and careful tiny pins inserted for structural support.
Its leaking a fair bit, so I ordered a Bluetooth stero.
Are these different from the early Civic hybrids? I believe the tech is very similar but if the IMA stops working on the Civic it stops charging the 12v battery so you can only drive as far as your 12v holds enough charge to run the ECU etc. One of things that put me off them when they were mega cheap a few years ago
Didge3 said:
Are these different from the early Civic hybrids? I believe the tech is very similar but if the IMA stops working on the Civic it stops charging the 12v battery so you can only drive as far as your 12v holds enough charge to run the ECU etc. One of things that put me off them when they were mega cheap a few years ago
Simialr system I believe - in fact the red 12V light starts flickering on after about 150 miles of the main battery... failing... I haven't had this happen to me yet. My wife, on the other hand, just took it down to Corfe Castle and ran out of motion after 2 hours (ahem). More on that story later.conanius said:
These cars are a real favorite of mine - thank you for the detail (The rest of your fleet is also equally as exceptional).
When its all up together (see what I did there) what sort of real world economy do people actually achieve?
Thanks! The internet is awash with myths of target mpg, and of course the AMericans calculate it to different gallons so it all get a little confusing. On a mixed run at the moment we see around 72mpg since purchase. If the system is fully working and I have the right tyres, no passenger and tackle the flattest part of Holland, around 80mps would be down well.When its all up together (see what I did there) what sort of real world economy do people actually achieve?
bolidemichael said:
Spotted this from the Portsmouth to IoW ferry and was disappointed that there was no SAAB, Alfa or Insight parked outside.
Ha! Well spotted! There was also a rumour flying around that I part owned a tower on the south coast, but sadly a greasy spoon would be far more my speed. I'll try and stop by whenever I get to the IoW!Last week my wife was aiming to meet her sister 2 hours from home on a particularly bleak day. With the GTV in for its MOT, the Insight was available but we discussed how "It must be charged before another long journey...". Well, we both forgot and 1hr50 into the journey, the red battery light had been on and the power steering reportedly became heavy...
Fortunately she was off any motorway (like the dreaded M3 with its 'deathlanes' of no hard shoulder), and as as the engine puttered its last 3 cylinder gasp, she coasted around a roundabout and into... a pub car park.
A phone call to me and the RAC later, her sister came to meet her and the 12V battery was charged enough to get to their destination.
Fortunately, I have a partner who is adept at steering ailing cars out of trouble when there is a problem, and aside from a few barbed comments on the phone this was all taken in her stride.
The next day we had a quick chat and she was off to Halfords to buy a 10mm spanner, Allen key and a mains charger, and two days later the Insight made it back without issue.
It was a stark reminder of how lucky we had been with the geriatric main rear battery thus far, so it was all the more timely that yesterday I had my long-awaited appointment with Insight guru Peter Perkins in Yorkshire. A check of all fluids and tyres pressures, plus loading of a few Insight spares, and I was set.
A full charge the night before, and a 5am start, accompanied by a beautiful dawn and near painless drive set the tone for the day.
Halfway point at Tibshelf services on the M1 (2 hours in).
Some truly lovely roads around Hull, and I arrived ahead of schedule at Peter's house. Benchmark for the 231 mile journey was 72mpg.
With a hearty introduction we quickly disassembled the rear of the car and he had the old battery out in no time.
I tried to keep up with the knowledge being provided, making notes and taking photos, but if anyone is in doubt - this is the one person you want to take your Insight!
Peter has a full test bench of a 'naked' Insight on the workbench... marvelous stuff.
Various modules and brackets transferred over to the new unit...
Imbalanced near-death state of the old unit confirmed - the variance in these cells will require a full rebuild.
A few short hours and c cup of coffee later, the new unit was in and we took it for a quick test drive... definite improvement! The response of the IMA and charging was noticeable. Heart transplant complete.
The journey back had a bit more traffic - M1 and M25 accidents and a few detours...
Even with the additional miles and the volume of traffic, the Insight returned a frankly astonishing 80mpg...
Home by 6pm, and despite 9 hours of driving and a 5am start I felt surprisingly fresh. Usually I associate comfortable long distance driving with big leather seats, cruise control, sound insulation and a decent stereo. The Insight ahs none of these, and yet it was a very enjoyable cruiser - yes, really!
The Integrated Motor Assist system has a 'full assist/regen' switch on the dash installed by a previous owner, which Peter gave a clean bill of health and this really did make a difference. The assist gives you the push to be confident with overtaking and joining traffic from stop, and the regen helps with braking - I'm always so grateful for the ignorant drivers on the M25 who made me test that.
A big bill for sure, and I calculated roughly 170,000 miles required to pay for itself in the fuel saving, but that's beside the point - the car is a huge leap forward in functionality, and hopefully will now reward us with many more safe miles.
Next up - following tips from Peter, proper resealing of the leaky cabin/wet seatbelt cure, plus the SRS warning and fuel sender unit.
Fortunately she was off any motorway (like the dreaded M3 with its 'deathlanes' of no hard shoulder), and as as the engine puttered its last 3 cylinder gasp, she coasted around a roundabout and into... a pub car park.
A phone call to me and the RAC later, her sister came to meet her and the 12V battery was charged enough to get to their destination.
Fortunately, I have a partner who is adept at steering ailing cars out of trouble when there is a problem, and aside from a few barbed comments on the phone this was all taken in her stride.
The next day we had a quick chat and she was off to Halfords to buy a 10mm spanner, Allen key and a mains charger, and two days later the Insight made it back without issue.
It was a stark reminder of how lucky we had been with the geriatric main rear battery thus far, so it was all the more timely that yesterday I had my long-awaited appointment with Insight guru Peter Perkins in Yorkshire. A check of all fluids and tyres pressures, plus loading of a few Insight spares, and I was set.
A full charge the night before, and a 5am start, accompanied by a beautiful dawn and near painless drive set the tone for the day.
Halfway point at Tibshelf services on the M1 (2 hours in).
Some truly lovely roads around Hull, and I arrived ahead of schedule at Peter's house. Benchmark for the 231 mile journey was 72mpg.
With a hearty introduction we quickly disassembled the rear of the car and he had the old battery out in no time.
I tried to keep up with the knowledge being provided, making notes and taking photos, but if anyone is in doubt - this is the one person you want to take your Insight!
Peter has a full test bench of a 'naked' Insight on the workbench... marvelous stuff.
Various modules and brackets transferred over to the new unit...
Imbalanced near-death state of the old unit confirmed - the variance in these cells will require a full rebuild.
A few short hours and c cup of coffee later, the new unit was in and we took it for a quick test drive... definite improvement! The response of the IMA and charging was noticeable. Heart transplant complete.
The journey back had a bit more traffic - M1 and M25 accidents and a few detours...
Even with the additional miles and the volume of traffic, the Insight returned a frankly astonishing 80mpg...
Home by 6pm, and despite 9 hours of driving and a 5am start I felt surprisingly fresh. Usually I associate comfortable long distance driving with big leather seats, cruise control, sound insulation and a decent stereo. The Insight ahs none of these, and yet it was a very enjoyable cruiser - yes, really!
The Integrated Motor Assist system has a 'full assist/regen' switch on the dash installed by a previous owner, which Peter gave a clean bill of health and this really did make a difference. The assist gives you the push to be confident with overtaking and joining traffic from stop, and the regen helps with braking - I'm always so grateful for the ignorant drivers on the M25 who made me test that.
A big bill for sure, and I calculated roughly 170,000 miles required to pay for itself in the fuel saving, but that's beside the point - the car is a huge leap forward in functionality, and hopefully will now reward us with many more safe miles.
Next up - following tips from Peter, proper resealing of the leaky cabin/wet seatbelt cure, plus the SRS warning and fuel sender unit.
Mr Tidy said:
That's fantastic economy!
Presumably the range will have increased significantly after that fettling. It makes me think the Insight was ahead of its time.
Indeed! If the figures are to be believed, this would mean a 700 mile range for the 40 litre tank. Presumably the range will have increased significantly after that fettling. It makes me think the Insight was ahead of its time.
We'll see how we get on, but defintiely a step int he right direction.
Cambs_Stuart said:
As a serial subaru owner 80mpg seems like witchcraft. Good to see the major issue is resolved!
Have fun with the rest of the fleet.
Same - I'm dimly recalling my time with my Rover P5B V8 int he high teens - this seems like I'm stepping into Back To The Future 2 straight from the 1950s.Have fun with the rest of the fleet.
For about 5 years between about 2008-2013 I used to commute into Manchester down the M66 at around 0530-0600 and almost every morning without fail I’d pass one of these being driven about 55mph on the inside lane
Always used to look out for it and could almost judge my arrival time at work depending on where I saw it on the m/way
Always used to look out for it and could almost judge my arrival time at work depending on where I saw it on the m/way
Great to see your investment paid off with the fuel economy.
With a fleet like yours, repayment periods are best ignored I'd say - you're keeping something really unique and special going - thats most of the fun.
Amazing to see after your prayer numbers in the reply to me that you managed 80mpg. Awesome.
I'm sure a long time ago I read about people doing a K20A conversion with some sort of lean burn map. Sounded interesting... <plants seed>
With a fleet like yours, repayment periods are best ignored I'd say - you're keeping something really unique and special going - thats most of the fun.
Amazing to see after your prayer numbers in the reply to me that you managed 80mpg. Awesome.
I'm sure a long time ago I read about people doing a K20A conversion with some sort of lean burn map. Sounded interesting... <plants seed>
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