Didn't complete my CBT
Discussion
Mojooo said:
If I go again it will definitely be at a different school. Everything was just too rushed on this course.
I can ride a normal push bike. I think what happened was that the bike I had was a bit heavier than I imagined and I stalled it very early on and let it tip - hopefully that won't happen again as I know what to expect.
I think there are quite long waiting times now as well so it gives me time to chew on it.
One thing that may catch you off guard is how high-revving a bike engine is. If you're used to pulling away in a diesel car at 2krpm, revving a bike to 4-5 or so will feel very alien. Once moving the weight of a bike becomes less of an issue. Going from 0-10mph is always more difficult than going from 40-50mph, but as a newbie, takes more balls. Think of it like pulling a car out of a junction into traffic. You can't go really slowly and timidly. you have to either decide whether you're doing it or not, and if you are, you have to commit.I can ride a normal push bike. I think what happened was that the bike I had was a bit heavier than I imagined and I stalled it very early on and let it tip - hopefully that won't happen again as I know what to expect.
I think there are quite long waiting times now as well so it gives me time to chew on it.
Keep at it, and if you never ride a motorcycle after you pass at least you can say you gave it a good go.
Do cbt on a moped/scooter.
It will let you concentrate on the handling without worrying about the coordination of the gears.
Understand counter steering.
When you have cbt start with a cheap scooter and get confident on the road with that - you wont lose much if anything running a 125 for a few months.
once you are confident with an auto 125 decide if you want to go for a geared bike. depending on what you want the maxi scoots are perfectly good. If you want an auto mcycle then there are dcts like the africa twin, nc750 etc
It will let you concentrate on the handling without worrying about the coordination of the gears.
Understand counter steering.
When you have cbt start with a cheap scooter and get confident on the road with that - you wont lose much if anything running a 125 for a few months.
once you are confident with an auto 125 decide if you want to go for a geared bike. depending on what you want the maxi scoots are perfectly good. If you want an auto mcycle then there are dcts like the africa twin, nc750 etc
I didnt enjoy my CBT at all, January, raining. Told there would be equipment to use but gloves all had holes in. Clutch control on geared 125 was difficult with numb fingers. CG125 which i struggled to touch the floor on. Got through fine but never wanted to ride something like that again. Lesson on an ER-5 500cc was much more enjoyable.
Welcome to my world. I went to a pretty poor school at first with a guy who clearly didn't get on with how I learned, or how slowly I learned. I went geared 125 on my first go, too. Scraped by the car park section but felt way more comfortable when I got onto the roads. The area I learned on was about 27m by 14m on quite the angle. I did the riding in a straight line fine but going around in a loop where he demanded I get up to 3rd gear, NEVER letting go of the clutch fully and coming to a stop was a headache. I was also told to NEVER use the front brake and was chastised heavily when I did. When I grabbed it a moment later in a panic, I was berated further. No friendly reminders here, the guy was just a tosser. He gave me an extra 10 minutes to get my practice in while he chatted with the young girl that was on a 50cc moped. He said if I didn't get competent at getting up to 3rd and stopping in this tiny space then I'd have to come back. Got through by the skin of my teeth. Went back to the same school for a CBT refresh and had a different tutor who couldn't have been better. Full of encouragement, full of praise and so much easier going. The tutor makes a huge difference to your experience, though the 2 years practice helped, too. Ended up passing my Mod 1 and 2 with a single riding fault between them for going too slowly.
As others have said, get a bicycle and practice basic bike control. Stick to using the front brake on a bicycle to more closely replicate a motorbike. I've found it helped with my confidence a lot in slow speed manoeuvres since the penalty for error is pretty much a bruised ego. When you're doing manoeuvres in a tight area, the old adage "look where you want to go" is key but it only works when you point your nose, not just looking with your eyes. The further ahead you can look, the slower things will seem. There's no shame in using a scooter to do your CBT either. Riding is riding as long as you're not doing wheelies on a stolen dirt bike with no helmet down a main road!
As others have said, get a bicycle and practice basic bike control. Stick to using the front brake on a bicycle to more closely replicate a motorbike. I've found it helped with my confidence a lot in slow speed manoeuvres since the penalty for error is pretty much a bruised ego. When you're doing manoeuvres in a tight area, the old adage "look where you want to go" is key but it only works when you point your nose, not just looking with your eyes. The further ahead you can look, the slower things will seem. There's no shame in using a scooter to do your CBT either. Riding is riding as long as you're not doing wheelies on a stolen dirt bike with no helmet down a main road!
A few years ago, my wife and I decided to have a go at the CBT at a local training centre. I decided to try a manual, and my wife went for a small automatic moped. There were 2 other guys on the course on mopeds, looking to become delivery drivers. The morning was to be spent on basic control, and only students who were competent would then be taken out on the road for the afternoon.
Having ridded cycles for many years, but never ridden a motorbike, the balance and control came easily, but I had to REALLY concentrate on the clutch as it was completely counter-intuitive using what I instinctively thought of as a brake lever. I stalled it once, but throughout the morning did get the hang of it, although still had to concentrate a lot.
My wife struggled, and so did the other 2.
The instructor was very good, and the course was held in a huge disused car park near Wembley Stadium with loads of space. I seem to remember getting up to 3rd or 4th gear and speeds of around 40mph.
It got to lunch time and the instructor said that I was the only one who would be able to go out on the road in the afternoon - the others needed a lot more practice.
He was very surprised when I asked if rather than me going out on the road, and the others going home, could we instead all spend the afternoon getting more practice on the car park, which would benefit everyone, and so this is what we did.
So I guess I "failed" my CBT, but enjoyed the whole day nevertheless.
Following this, my wife decided riding a motorbike wasn't for her, and I didn't take it any further, which is possibly a good thing, as I won't even go out on the road locally on my mountain bike these days due to the appalling standard of drivers making it a pretty dangerous environment.
Having ridded cycles for many years, but never ridden a motorbike, the balance and control came easily, but I had to REALLY concentrate on the clutch as it was completely counter-intuitive using what I instinctively thought of as a brake lever. I stalled it once, but throughout the morning did get the hang of it, although still had to concentrate a lot.
My wife struggled, and so did the other 2.
The instructor was very good, and the course was held in a huge disused car park near Wembley Stadium with loads of space. I seem to remember getting up to 3rd or 4th gear and speeds of around 40mph.
It got to lunch time and the instructor said that I was the only one who would be able to go out on the road in the afternoon - the others needed a lot more practice.
He was very surprised when I asked if rather than me going out on the road, and the others going home, could we instead all spend the afternoon getting more practice on the car park, which would benefit everyone, and so this is what we did.
So I guess I "failed" my CBT, but enjoyed the whole day nevertheless.
Following this, my wife decided riding a motorbike wasn't for her, and I didn't take it any further, which is possibly a good thing, as I won't even go out on the road locally on my mountain bike these days due to the appalling standard of drivers making it a pretty dangerous environment.
LosingGrip said:
I personally think a pushbike and motorbike are completely different when it comes to balance/turning etc.
I can ride a motorbike fairly quickly. Slow speed stuff is generally OK (although if you had seen me on my police course last week you'd think otherwise!).
Pushbike however, seems alien to me. I'm all over the place.
OP personally I'd find another training place. Where abouts are you? Someone maybe able to recommend somewhere local?
Yep riding fast is very different to riding slow and controlled lock to lock. If you can do the slow riding on a pushbike, it becomes a piece of piss on a big bike.I can ride a motorbike fairly quickly. Slow speed stuff is generally OK (although if you had seen me on my police course last week you'd think otherwise!).
Pushbike however, seems alien to me. I'm all over the place.
OP personally I'd find another training place. Where abouts are you? Someone maybe able to recommend somewhere local?
I mountain bike and enduro so lots of control and balance really helps with my adv bike.
Edited by Omaruk on Monday 29th April 20:22
you've had some time now so hopefully the next go wont feel so rushed.
Not enough time is spent dicking around with clutches. They're not like cars where they burn out easily. You need to keep the revs up for slow speed manoeuvres and use the clutch to modulate speed. So next time just make sure they let you practice riding the clutch so you're not stalling or up to speed straight away. It becomes second nature quickly
Not enough time is spent dicking around with clutches. They're not like cars where they burn out easily. You need to keep the revs up for slow speed manoeuvres and use the clutch to modulate speed. So next time just make sure they let you practice riding the clutch so you're not stalling or up to speed straight away. It becomes second nature quickly
I think people not completing it or taking longer than a day may be more common than you think, i very nearly went home at lunch time on my CBT as i thought it was a drag, was on a Saturday just over four years ago, was saddled with two 17 year olds, one was pretty smart but the other guy was an idiot, kept taking off his helmet and gloves to have a fag then it'd be his turn to do something on the bike and have to faff about with his helmet and gloves, this delayed things, he was also on his second day, when i mentioned to him i was thinking about chucking it he said a guy had done that the previous Saturday, just buggered off at lunch time saying it wasn't for him.
We went into the classroom for highway code stuff about 2.30pm, hadn't even been out on the road yet, i was nearly falling asleep as the instructor was explaining roundabouts, back out to fart about in the industrial estate at 3.30pm, then at 4.30pm, we had ran out of time, was told i had to come back next Saturday to finish it off.
I was nearly saying i wouldn't be back but turned up the following Saturday, of course the rain was bouncing (the previous Saturday it had been boiling hot) and they were talking about cancelling it, they eventually decided to go ahead and i managed to complete it, went on to do my DAS and it's all behind me now. Glad i did it but i really didn't enjoy the CBT/learning process at all.
We went into the classroom for highway code stuff about 2.30pm, hadn't even been out on the road yet, i was nearly falling asleep as the instructor was explaining roundabouts, back out to fart about in the industrial estate at 3.30pm, then at 4.30pm, we had ran out of time, was told i had to come back next Saturday to finish it off.
I was nearly saying i wouldn't be back but turned up the following Saturday, of course the rain was bouncing (the previous Saturday it had been boiling hot) and they were talking about cancelling it, they eventually decided to go ahead and i managed to complete it, went on to do my DAS and it's all behind me now. Glad i did it but i really didn't enjoy the CBT/learning process at all.
Mojooo said:
I'd have happily undertaken a few more hours training - part of the problem was how rushed it all was - I expected more time.
I have spoken to another school - I can do an automatic and then do a 3 hour conversion course for a small fee if I want.
I wish you well if you have another go. I have spoken to another school - I can do an automatic and then do a 3 hour conversion course for a small fee if I want.
I did mine a million years ago and really struggled. All that muscle memory from a pushbike really undid me, I did pass but I couldn't quite believe it because I was outright dangerous for some of the test.
What I needed was more time and practise, maybe find somewhere you can do some riding around off the road and have another crack then you've got a dozen or so hours of getting used to the controls.
What I needed was more time and practise, maybe find somewhere you can do some riding around off the road and have another crack then you've got a dozen or so hours of getting used to the controls.
Personally with what can go wrong out on the roads and how bad other road users are I'd consider not doing it again. We had someone similar on my cbt.
The instructor let him out on the road and he dropped, fell off twice infront of me. Once on a large roundabout on the edge of the M60 and once on a busy junction. He was a nice lad but awful. He should have quit.
I was speaking to someone ontop of Holme Moss, Edge of the Peaks yesterday and I said I was a solid 5/10 (2yrs in). So I'm definitely not acting 'oh I'm better than you pontificating'.
On my cbt I said to myself if I don't get the hang of it bin it. I didn't want to continue if I didn't have any potential.
The instructor let him out on the road and he dropped, fell off twice infront of me. Once on a large roundabout on the edge of the M60 and once on a busy junction. He was a nice lad but awful. He should have quit.
I was speaking to someone ontop of Holme Moss, Edge of the Peaks yesterday and I said I was a solid 5/10 (2yrs in). So I'm definitely not acting 'oh I'm better than you pontificating'.
On my cbt I said to myself if I don't get the hang of it bin it. I didn't want to continue if I didn't have any potential.
I'm another that really struggled with CBT.
1st time - gave up at lunchtime before the road session as I was worried and tired after not sleeping the night before and could not cope with the off road part - too much to think about in a very short space of time/area
2nd time - felt better but instructor was the shouty type who berated you for any mistakes which knocked my confidence and he wouldn't sign me off at the end
3rd time - much better instructor who was far more positive, and also the other person on the course was doing his CBT renewal and actually a pretty good rider so helped to follow and copy him - all went well
I still think having to learn clutch control, gears, turning, braking in a very small area on top of obs drills, indicators etc is very difficult and actually on the road is easier as you have more time and space to think about it. Being an experienced driver only helps with roadcraft, and even then only if you are reasonably competent driver - it requires a much higher level on a bike.
Lots to learn in a short space of time, but worth it, so if you are still interested give it another go, treat it as an "experience day" rather than a "must pass" event, and by the sounds of it, find a better school.
1st time - gave up at lunchtime before the road session as I was worried and tired after not sleeping the night before and could not cope with the off road part - too much to think about in a very short space of time/area
2nd time - felt better but instructor was the shouty type who berated you for any mistakes which knocked my confidence and he wouldn't sign me off at the end
3rd time - much better instructor who was far more positive, and also the other person on the course was doing his CBT renewal and actually a pretty good rider so helped to follow and copy him - all went well
I still think having to learn clutch control, gears, turning, braking in a very small area on top of obs drills, indicators etc is very difficult and actually on the road is easier as you have more time and space to think about it. Being an experienced driver only helps with roadcraft, and even then only if you are reasonably competent driver - it requires a much higher level on a bike.
Lots to learn in a short space of time, but worth it, so if you are still interested give it another go, treat it as an "experience day" rather than a "must pass" event, and by the sounds of it, find a better school.
s2kjock said:
Lots to learn in a short space of time, but worth it, so if you are still interested give it another go, treat it as an "experience day" rather than a "must pass" event, and by the sounds of it, find a better school.
Yes that's pretty much my way of looking at it - its a day out trying something different.I've booked an automatic CBT for a few weeks.
So I went back to do my CBT today at a different school.
The difference in instruction was massive - much more relaxed and much more detailed. Just proves what a shambles the last teacher was. My instructor mentioned the first school was known as were a high throughput organisation.
Nicer weather helped as did better quality helmet, gloves etc.
There were 4 of us this time - 2 guys who had ridden bikes abroad in their home country and one guy with an expired CBT. I was doing auto and they were all doing manual.
The venue was also much bigger and felt less cramped.
I calculated that last time we started around 9.30 on the bikes and were finished something like 11.15 or 11.30. So we had 2 hours on the bike - maybe 2 hours 15 max
Today we had about 4 hours and we didn't even finish.
So my past experience definitely helped jumping straight on the auto. Oddly I found clutch control on the manual a bit easier to ride slowly because with the auto it felt hard to find the right point on the throttle - either nothing happened or I went to fast. The brake was also very responsive with little travel so balancing the brake and throttle was quite hard
Managed to do a straight line, figure of 8 was ok, wobbled a bit, did the U turn.
We then had to do a stop at a line. I never managed to get this perfect - either I would brake too early and finish to far away from the line (even 40-50cm was too much as someone could walk past in front of you) or I would press both brakes but still be twisting the throttle a little. So I was told I needed to come back and finish on another day as was the guy who had done his CBT. I don't know what happened to the other two but they must have run out of time as well as it was too late to do the road test.
So I am frustrated I haven't mastered the bike. But when I actually add up all the riding time, it still probably only adds up to maybe 15minutes combined. What I really need is 4 or 5 hours on my own in a car park just to master the machine.
Not sure what to do now.
The trainer says he has a high standard and won't just sign anyone off (i.e. the line exercise would be fine in real life IMO because if you stop short you just move forward a little or 99% of the time it won't even matter).
I could spend another £80 or whatever and go back and do more training...risk is that I may not make the mustard if the standard is high.
Or I could look at getting a bike and practicing on private land to master the bike skills first.
I am 99% sure I can master the bike, I just need time.
Instructor also suggested I didn't buy my own bike after CBT and practice if I wanted to do the full test as he says people pick up bad habits. I have flip flopped on this a few times!
Instructor did mention I was an over thinker and things I was doing OK earlier were then going backwards after lunch which can happen when people become overloaded.
Overall, not the best day but not the worst. I think I am a bit tainted by the last experience. If today was my first ever experience then I'd be back to carry on no problem and that is probably what I'll do...its another day out.
The difference in instruction was massive - much more relaxed and much more detailed. Just proves what a shambles the last teacher was. My instructor mentioned the first school was known as were a high throughput organisation.
Nicer weather helped as did better quality helmet, gloves etc.
There were 4 of us this time - 2 guys who had ridden bikes abroad in their home country and one guy with an expired CBT. I was doing auto and they were all doing manual.
The venue was also much bigger and felt less cramped.
I calculated that last time we started around 9.30 on the bikes and were finished something like 11.15 or 11.30. So we had 2 hours on the bike - maybe 2 hours 15 max
Today we had about 4 hours and we didn't even finish.
So my past experience definitely helped jumping straight on the auto. Oddly I found clutch control on the manual a bit easier to ride slowly because with the auto it felt hard to find the right point on the throttle - either nothing happened or I went to fast. The brake was also very responsive with little travel so balancing the brake and throttle was quite hard
Managed to do a straight line, figure of 8 was ok, wobbled a bit, did the U turn.
We then had to do a stop at a line. I never managed to get this perfect - either I would brake too early and finish to far away from the line (even 40-50cm was too much as someone could walk past in front of you) or I would press both brakes but still be twisting the throttle a little. So I was told I needed to come back and finish on another day as was the guy who had done his CBT. I don't know what happened to the other two but they must have run out of time as well as it was too late to do the road test.
So I am frustrated I haven't mastered the bike. But when I actually add up all the riding time, it still probably only adds up to maybe 15minutes combined. What I really need is 4 or 5 hours on my own in a car park just to master the machine.
Not sure what to do now.
The trainer says he has a high standard and won't just sign anyone off (i.e. the line exercise would be fine in real life IMO because if you stop short you just move forward a little or 99% of the time it won't even matter).
I could spend another £80 or whatever and go back and do more training...risk is that I may not make the mustard if the standard is high.
Or I could look at getting a bike and practicing on private land to master the bike skills first.
I am 99% sure I can master the bike, I just need time.
Instructor also suggested I didn't buy my own bike after CBT and practice if I wanted to do the full test as he says people pick up bad habits. I have flip flopped on this a few times!
Instructor did mention I was an over thinker and things I was doing OK earlier were then going backwards after lunch which can happen when people become overloaded.
Overall, not the best day but not the worst. I think I am a bit tainted by the last experience. If today was my first ever experience then I'd be back to carry on no problem and that is probably what I'll do...its another day out.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff