Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)

[Mrr T]

Murph7355 said:

Mrr T said:

...
No one is suggesting people should not vote for governments who take decisions, just that on something like EU, where the majority have no idea about the complexities, a referendum is a bad idea.

And to keep it going round in circles, because that's fun....

Who was it that gave the vote and set the rules of it?

Yes, correct. The Remain side.

"It only sounds condescending....". Do you ever repeat what you write to yourself?

It was Cameron, and it was a really bad idea done for party politics not the good of the country. While UKIP did well in the EU elections based on low turn out it was never going to get more than a couple of MP's. What it was doing was taking voters from the tories.

The fact is even if remain had won by a similar margin, Nige would not given up, so the referendum would never going to solved the Tory problem. I had always voted Tory but now cannot. The party has done more harm to the country than any other in the last 100 years. I could not vote for May or bJ so I did not vote. Made no difference where I lived. I know I can still vote but cannot be bothered to find out how.

It's not going round in circles we are just discussing history.

[732NM]

Mrr T said:

It was Cameron, and it was a really bad idea done for party politics not the good of the country. While UKIP did well in the EU elections based on low turn out it was never going to get more than a couple of MP's. What it was doing was taking voters from the tories.

The fact is even if remain had won by a similar margin, Nige would not given up, so the referendum would never going to solved the Tory problem. I had always voted Tory but now cannot. The party has done more harm to the country than any other in the last 100 years. I could not vote for May or bJ so I did not vote. Made no difference where I lived. I know I can still vote but cannot be bothered to find out how.

It's not going round in circles we are just discussing history.

It was Labour policy to leave the EEC during the initial vote on whether to stay or leave.

Tony Blairs campaign to get elected in 83 was on a leave the EEC platform.

The Liberal Democrats were the first political party to call on the UK having a referendum on whether to leave the EU, which they raised in Parliament.

It was a cross party issue and the whole of Parliament voted to hold the referendum. .

[chrispmartha]

Finally a brexit benefit

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13428089/...


“Pavement dining to become a 'permanent feature of the high street' as Business secretary Kemi Badenoch announces plans to remove red tape for pubs, restaurants and cafes to make the most of 'Brexit freedoms”


I’m sure the europeans will be very jealous because as we all know, drinking and eating outside a bar or restaurant is really rare across Europe.

[Vanden Saab]

chrispmartha said:

Finally a brexit benefit

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13428089/...


“Pavement dining to become a 'permanent feature of the high street' as Business secretary Kemi Badenoch announces plans to remove red tape for pubs, restaurants and cafes to make the most of 'Brexit freedoms”


I’m sure the europeans will be very jealous because as we all know, drinking and eating outside a bar or restaurant is really rare across Europe.

Yet another example of why we did not fit with the EU. while other countries just ignore laws that do not match what they have always done we follow them to the letter.

[NerveAgent]

chrispmartha said:

Finally a brexit benefit

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13428089/...


“Pavement dining to become a 'permanent feature of the high street' as Business secretary Kemi Badenoch announces plans to remove red tape for pubs, restaurants and cafes to make the most of 'Brexit freedoms”


I’m sure the europeans will be very jealous because as we all know, drinking and eating outside a bar or restaurant is really rare across Europe.

[Amateurish]

Vanden Saab said:

Yet another example of why we did not fit with the EU. while other countries just ignore laws that do not match what they have always done we follow them to the letter.

The ban on pavement dining was entirely a matter for domestic legislation and had nothing to do with the EU whatsoever.

Just another example of Brexiter lies

[blueg33]

Vanden Saab said:

chrispmartha said:

Finally a brexit benefit

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13428089/...


“Pavement dining to become a 'permanent feature of the high street' as Business secretary Kemi Badenoch announces plans to remove red tape for pubs, restaurants and cafes to make the most of 'Brexit freedoms”


I’m sure the europeans will be very jealous because as we all know, drinking and eating outside a bar or restaurant is really rare across Europe.

Yet another example of why we did not fit with the EU. while other countries just ignore laws that do not match what they have always done we follow them to the letter.

It was UK by laws. Noting to do with the EU. But hey brexiteers like to cling to nonsense as justification.

[bad company]

blueg33 said:

It was UK by laws. Noting to do with the EU. But hey brexiteers like to cling to nonsense as justification.

We all know those weren’t EU laws.

Come on, you can surely do better than that???

Edited by bad company on Saturday 18th May 20:44

[MG CHRIS]

As someone that voted for brexit all its shown is how utterly incompetent uk government is so if you class that as a win maybe it does have its benefits. Looking and what has happened i wish i voted to remain we just wasted 8 years doing nothing but go round in circles. Not really a great fan of the european union in general but it wasnt the major issue that i thought it was at the time.

[911hope]

MG CHRIS said:

As someone that voted for brexit all its shown is how utterly incompetent uk government is so if you class that as a win maybe it does have its benefits. Looking and what has happened i wish i voted to remain we just wasted 8 years doing nothing but go round in circles. Not really a great fan of the european union in general but it wasnt the major issue that i thought it was at the time.

EU represents a pretty large market to trade with.
What on earth made people think it was a good idea to make this harder?

The answer is in the question. The thinking part was missing. Those 17 million people simply believed and that just isn't good enough.

[bad company]

911hope said:

EU represents a pretty large market to trade with.
What on earth made people think it was a good idea to make this harder?

The answer is in the question. The thinking part was missing. Those 17 million people simply believed and that just isn't good enough.

And we continue to go around the same circles.

Most including me voted out knowing that we’d be out of the EU trading market.

[Murph7355]

911hope said:

EU represents a pretty large market to trade with.
What on earth made people think it was a good idea to make this harder?

The answer is in the question. The thinking part was missing. Those 17 million people simply believed and that just isn't good enough.

Clue - it wasn't just a trade deal.

Mrr T said:

It was Cameron, and it was a really bad idea done for party politics not the good of the country. While UKIP did well in the EU elections based on low turn out it was never going to get more than a couple of MP's. What it was doing was taking voters from the tories.

The fact is even if remain had won by a similar margin, Nige would not given up, so the referendum would never going to solved the Tory problem. I had always voted Tory but now cannot. The party has done more harm to the country than any other in the last 100 years. I could not vote for May or bJ so I did not vote. Made no difference where I lived. I know I can still vote but cannot be bothered to find out how.

It's not going round in circles we are just discussing history.

Were you (or anyone else on here) calling out the inadequacy of the rules when they were set for the vote? (amongst all the gas-bagging I cannot remember one utterance along these lines...if you can find a post, I'll donate to a charity of your choice). The caterwauling started when the result was clear.

Did you vote for Cameron? (Did you think he'd renege on the vote?).

Nige could have moaned all he wanted. I cannot imagine many circumstances that would have allowed another vote in my lifetime and well beyond, no matter what direction the EU took.

And as for Cameron doing this for party politics and not the good of the country...I think you can level that about many "policies" for every govt in the last 30yrs. Principles have been well and truly sidelined over the desire for power. The system is broken and needs a reset. I see that as being under way now. Whether it will complete in my lifetime is debatable. But we'll see.

[Mrr T]

Murph7355 said:

Mrr T said:

It was Cameron, and it was a really bad idea done for party politics not the good of the country. While UKIP did well in the EU elections based on low turn out it was never going to get more than a couple of MP's. What it was doing was taking voters from the tories.

The fact is even if remain had won by a similar margin, Nige would not given up, so the referendum would never going to solved the Tory problem. I had always voted Tory but now cannot. The party has done more harm to the country than any other in the last 100 years. I could not vote for May or bJ so I did not vote. Made no difference where I lived. I know I can still vote but cannot be bothered to find out how.

It's not going round in circles we are just discussing history.

Were you (or anyone else on here) calling out the inadequacy of the rules when they were set for the vote? (amongst all the gas-bagging I cannot remember one utterance along these lines...if you can find a post, I'll donate to a charity of your choice). The caterwauling started when the result was clear.

Did you vote for Cameron? (Did you think he'd renege on the vote?).

Nige could have moaned all he wanted. I cannot imagine many circumstances that would have allowed another vote in my lifetime and well beyond, no matter what direction the EU took.

And as for Cameron doing this for party politics and not the good of the country...I think you can level that about many "policies" for every govt in the last 30yrs. Principles have been well and truly sidelined over the desire for power. The system is broken and needs a reset. I see that as being under way now. Whether it will complete in my lifetime is debatable. But we'll see.

Not going to look back that far. I was certainly against referendums. The first one under Cameron at al, had shown the UK politics and media could not even debate a change in the voting system.

I voted for Cameron but disagreed with that policy. I did think it might be forgotten or certainly delayed to the end of office. Not sure if I posted any thing on the subject. While I had always been aware of how the EU worked in FS at that time I was just starting to read up on the subject. Hats off to EUReferendum.com.

While I agree if remain had won there would not have been another vote but that would not have stopped UKIP taking Tory votes.

I think most of the parties try to benefit the country. That gets more votes. The fact is at the time only UKIP wanted out and where taking Tory votes. It's also possible for the next party in power to reverse a position, leaving is almost impossible to reverse because of the opt outs.

[732NM]

Mrr T said:

Not going to look back that far. I was certainly against referendums. The first one under Cameron at al, had shown the UK politics and media could not even debate a change in the voting system.

I voted for Cameron but disagreed with that policy. I did think it might be forgotten or certainly delayed to the end of office. Not sure if I posted any thing on the subject. While I had always been aware of how the EU worked in FS at that time I was just starting to read up on the subject. Hats off to EUReferendum.com.

While I agree if remain had won there would not have been another vote but that would not have stopped UKIP taking Tory votes.

I think most of the parties try to benefit the country. That gets more votes. The fact is at the time only UKIP wanted out and where taking Tory votes. It's also possible for the next party in power to reverse a position, leaving is almost impossible to reverse because of the opt outs.

It was a cross party issue, voted through Parliament in a massive majority.

MPs voted by 544 to 53 in favour of the bill to hold a referendum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33067157

[Mrr T]

732NM said:

Mrr T said:

Not going to look back that far. I was certainly against referendums. The first one under Cameron at al, had shown the UK politics and media could not even debate a change in the voting system.

I voted for Cameron but disagreed with that policy. I did think it might be forgotten or certainly delayed to the end of office. Not sure if I posted any thing on the subject. While I had always been aware of how the EU worked in FS at that time I was just starting to read up on the subject. Hats off to EUReferendum.com.

While I agree if remain had won there would not have been another vote but that would not have stopped UKIP taking Tory votes.

I think most of the parties try to benefit the country. That gets more votes. The fact is at the time only UKIP wanted out and where taking Tory votes. It's also possible for the next party in power to reverse a position, leaving is almost impossible to reverse because of the opt outs.

It was a cross party issue, voted through Parliament in a massive majority.

MPs voted by 544 to 53 in favour of the bill to hold a referendum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33067157

Not really. As far as I remember there was nothing in either the Labour or Lib Dem manifestos suggesting a referendum.

The rumour was that Cameron only made the commitment because he expected a hung parliament and another coalition with the Lib Dems who would not have agreed to a referendum.

Edited by Mrr T on Sunday 19th May 10:31

[732NM]

Then you have a lousy memory and are not acknowledging the vote that occurred in parliament to enable a referendum to be held.

Labour opposed holding a referendum during the parliamentary election, as did the lib dems.

Post the parliamentary election, when they lost, they changed policy and supported holding a referendum.

Hence the historically huge majority vote on the bill to hold the referendum.

[Killboy]

bad company said:

And we continue to go around the same circles.

Most including me voted out knowing that we’d be out of the EU trading market.

You are also voting reform knowing their policies are nonsense.

[911hope]

bad company said:

911hope said:

EU represents a pretty large market to trade with.
What on earth made people think it was a good idea to make this harder?

The answer is in the question. The thinking part was missing. Those 17 million people simply believed and that just isn't good enough.

And we continue to go around the same circles.

Most including me voted out knowing that we’d be out of the EU trading market.

So knowing there was a huge downside to leaving, what mad you vote for it?

[bloomen]

911hope said:

So knowing there was a huge downside to leaving, what mad you vote for it?

'Buccaneering' across the High Seas of trade of course.

Vanuatu is crying out for soft cheeses from former rock stars.

[Mrr T]

732NM said:

Then you have a lousy memory and are not acknowledging the vote that occurred in parliament to enable a referendum to be held.

Labour opposed holding a referendum during the parliamentary election, as did the lib dems.

Post the parliamentary election, when they lost, they changed policy and supported holding a referendum.

Hence the historically huge majority vote on the bill to hold the referendum.

Since I said neither Labour or Lib Dems had it in there manifestos it seems I have a good memory. So if any result had occurred other than a Tory victory there would have been no referendum. So all down to Cameron.