The so called “carnivore” diet? Plants are bad to eat?!
Discussion
I admit to having recently, I suspect but am unsure, fallen down a bit of a rabbit hole..... much like many nutters did over covid and subsequently 
But mine is specifically diet, predominantly the “carnivore” diet. There seems to be a LOT about this in various areas of the internet recently. Is it complete and dangerous b
ks?
The basic principles are that, as per millions of years until relatively recently, man has eaten purely meat and that is what we are supposed to consume. Particularly red meat. And eggs. And fat. And berries maybe.
There are many anecdotes/reports I’m reading of people eating purely red meat, nothing else , and it has cleared up their entire minor/moderate health issues in one fell swoop.
These people say that the western diet is completely artificial and utter utter poison (I’m sure we can all agree on this).
Yet we’re told red meat causes bowel cancer and we shouldn’t eat too much. Eggs are full of cholesterol and bad for heart health in excess. Fat is bad. Vegetable seed oil is “healthy” (something which seems to be severely warned against by the same that advocate carnivore.)
Another thing I’m reading about is the idea that certain plants, by virtue of their evolved desire to survive, are quite often toxic (oxalates content for example) and actually bad for our health. That the entire “food pyramid” is a rather cynical commercial invention, etc etc.
The same advocates also promote fasting, yet just recently there was a news story that fasting is bad for heart health..... published based on very shonkily conducted and dubiously funded research.
I don’t know what to believe actually and am worried I’ve lost my way slightly
Any thoughts? Is the generally scientific view correct, or are the proponents of what I’ve described above on to something
But mine is specifically diet, predominantly the “carnivore” diet. There seems to be a LOT about this in various areas of the internet recently. Is it complete and dangerous b
ks?The basic principles are that, as per millions of years until relatively recently, man has eaten purely meat and that is what we are supposed to consume. Particularly red meat. And eggs. And fat. And berries maybe.
There are many anecdotes/reports I’m reading of people eating purely red meat, nothing else , and it has cleared up their entire minor/moderate health issues in one fell swoop.
These people say that the western diet is completely artificial and utter utter poison (I’m sure we can all agree on this).
Yet we’re told red meat causes bowel cancer and we shouldn’t eat too much. Eggs are full of cholesterol and bad for heart health in excess. Fat is bad. Vegetable seed oil is “healthy” (something which seems to be severely warned against by the same that advocate carnivore.)
Another thing I’m reading about is the idea that certain plants, by virtue of their evolved desire to survive, are quite often toxic (oxalates content for example) and actually bad for our health. That the entire “food pyramid” is a rather cynical commercial invention, etc etc.
The same advocates also promote fasting, yet just recently there was a news story that fasting is bad for heart health..... published based on very shonkily conducted and dubiously funded research.
I don’t know what to believe actually and am worried I’ve lost my way slightly
Any thoughts? Is the generally scientific view correct, or are the proponents of what I’ve described above on to something
Jordon Peterson's daughter let it be known she was and possibly still is on carnivore diet, she apparently has/had some serious debilitating illness and said diet is supposed to be helping, make of that what you will.
I have no opinion on the pros and cons because vested interests everywhere you look, judging by the growing number of articles on how dangerous for the environment farmed animals (farming in general
) are alleged to be there is likely to be some heavy anti rhetoric.
I have no opinion on the pros and cons because vested interests everywhere you look, judging by the growing number of articles on how dangerous for the environment farmed animals (farming in general
) are alleged to be there is likely to be some heavy anti rhetoric.Almost all the "only consume this" diets are bks if taken to the simplistic extremes.
But there are positive aspects in there, so having a higher protein intake and it coming from a nice steak rather than a Big Mac? Yeah, that's going to be a net benefit.
Treat such fads and emperor's new clothes diets as the bathwater, you just have to fish the baby of good advice out of them before throwing the rest out.
ks if taken to the simplistic extremes.But there are positive aspects in there, so having a higher protein intake and it coming from a nice steak rather than a Big Mac? Yeah, that's going to be a net benefit.
Treat such fads and emperor's new clothes diets as the bathwater, you just have to fish the baby of good advice out of them before throwing the rest out.
Krhuangbin said:
The basic principles are that, as per millions of years until relatively recently, man has eaten purely meat and that is what we are supposed to consume. Particularly red meat. And eggs. And fat. And berries maybe.
For a start, homo sapiens is about 300,000 years old so 'millions of years' is a stretch. Work from there 
Humans are built to eat almost anything which is why there are sharp teeth at the front for tearing and flat teeth at the back for chewing. Look at a dog (carnivore) or cow (herbivore) and their teeth are different - suited to their own natural diet.
Humans can't exist on a pure herbivore diet of grass because we can't digest cellulose. True herbivores, known as ruminants, have completely different digestive systems.
Fasting? It's like claiming cars are made better if you let them rest for one day a week or perhaps park them up for 30 days once a year.
In the case of humans the reason we need fluoride in the diet/water/toothpaste is because farming/cooking introduced starch and sugars which rot teeth. People used to die from this. Teeth would rot, gums get infected and without antibiotics the consequences could be fatal. That's what wiped out a lot of Native Americans once Europeans rolled into town.
Humans can't exist on a pure herbivore diet of grass because we can't digest cellulose. True herbivores, known as ruminants, have completely different digestive systems.
Fasting? It's like claiming cars are made better if you let them rest for one day a week or perhaps park them up for 30 days once a year.
In the case of humans the reason we need fluoride in the diet/water/toothpaste is because farming/cooking introduced starch and sugars which rot teeth. People used to die from this. Teeth would rot, gums get infected and without antibiotics the consequences could be fatal. That's what wiped out a lot of Native Americans once Europeans rolled into town.
We're omnivores aren't we?
So eat it all - meats n greens...
Better still if you can grow your own and you can control mostly what it's not grown with etc. If that makes sense?
I love my salads and veg. Grow as much of it as I can... I know not everyone has that luxury... That's what farm shops are for...
So eat it all - meats n greens...
Better still if you can grow your own and you can control mostly what it's not grown with etc. If that makes sense?
I love my salads and veg. Grow as much of it as I can... I know not everyone has that luxury... That's what farm shops are for...
My nieces husband is a PT and seems to rotate through every health fad going at that time. He has some dubious claims about COVID and was a fully paid up fan of the liver king until he was found out. Loves a random fitness piece of equipment like these Zuu straps that made him look like a gimp.
He's now on this carnivore train and his social media is full of anti MSM diet memes or pics of him ripped saying how he's on 3000 cal a day and losing weight. Behind all this facade is the massive anxiety about his health and that the last time my sister said she saw him happy was when he was fat 15 years ago.
He's now on this carnivore train and his social media is full of anti MSM diet memes or pics of him ripped saying how he's on 3000 cal a day and losing weight. Behind all this facade is the massive anxiety about his health and that the last time my sister said she saw him happy was when he was fat 15 years ago.
jagnet said:
Krhuangbin said:
or are the proponents of what I’ve described above on to something
The carnivore diet has been working exceptionally well for me over the last 3 or so years. Never been in better health. Anything you want to know, I'll do my best to answer.
He dropped to 14 stone quite rapidly but I thought he looked gaunt and wrinkly, older maybe.
Anyway because he stopped the diet he's ballooned again and back on the diet. Trying to get back into Keto mode again.
What do you eat? Do you follow recipes or is it just fried steak every meal? What health improvement have you noticed and are they totally related to your diet or did you also make lifestyle changes? Thanks.
I have been pretty strict carnivore for the last five years, since I tried "30 days steak, salt, water" and liked it. Previously I had been "keto paleo" for 5 years. Carnivore dropped me a further 5kg despite eating quite a lot more calories on paper.
The diet is a very natural one for humans. We evolved from hominids over millions of years by eating meat while others stayed vegetarian. That change is credited with giving us our bigger brains. So I wouldn't worry about it being unhealthy or inadequate. Do eat the fat that comes with the meat.
It is the ultimate elimination diet. No-one on Earth has a meat and water intolerance. So if you have gluten intolerance or IBS it will almost certainly remove those symptoms. Others report improvements in auto-immune related conditions.
It is repetitive, and expensive if you do it with steak, but if you are the curious type just go find out. It's harmless to try, coffee withdrawal aside.
I vary it a bit, but as an example day,
- just black coffee for breakfast
- omelette for lunch, usually tuna or cheese
- steak or burgers for dinner, Greek yoghurt
I get the odd plant. Chopped spring onions improve a tuna omelette. Frozen berries plus Greek yoghurt in a blender is a change.
The diet is a very natural one for humans. We evolved from hominids over millions of years by eating meat while others stayed vegetarian. That change is credited with giving us our bigger brains. So I wouldn't worry about it being unhealthy or inadequate. Do eat the fat that comes with the meat.
It is the ultimate elimination diet. No-one on Earth has a meat and water intolerance. So if you have gluten intolerance or IBS it will almost certainly remove those symptoms. Others report improvements in auto-immune related conditions.
It is repetitive, and expensive if you do it with steak, but if you are the curious type just go find out. It's harmless to try, coffee withdrawal aside.
I vary it a bit, but as an example day,
- just black coffee for breakfast
- omelette for lunch, usually tuna or cheese
- steak or burgers for dinner, Greek yoghurt
I get the odd plant. Chopped spring onions improve a tuna omelette. Frozen berries plus Greek yoghurt in a blender is a change.
grumbledoak said:
The diet is a very natural one for humans. We evolved from hominids over millions of years by eating meat while others stayed vegetarian. That change is credited with giving us our bigger brains.
Fire, and hence cooking, was the big change AIUI. It meant we could digest more of the meat we got. But hunting is hard and dangerous so we ate anything we could get our hands on.A lot of these fads are very selective in the cultures they follow. Lots of "grrr hunter!" and not so much witchetty grubs and manioc...
Bill said:
Fire, and hence cooking, was the big change AIUI. It meant we could digest more of the meat we got. But hunting is hard and dangerous so we ate anything we could get our hands on.
A lot of these fads are very selective in the cultures they follow. Lots of "grrr hunter!" and not so much witchetty grubs and manioc...
Hunting isn't that difficult or dangerous. We are very good at it. We know this. We have studied the "primitive" hunting cultures that we encountered. They ate when they were hungry. It was that simple. A lot of these fads are very selective in the cultures they follow. Lots of "grrr hunter!" and not so much witchetty grubs and manioc...
Inland Australia is pretty barren. There you eat witchetty grubs because that is all there is. Elsewhere we hunted bigger animals because they offer more reward for your effort.
The megafauna all didn't go on holiday. They are gone because we ate them.
Krhuangbin said:
I admit to having recently, I suspect but am unsure, fallen down a bit of a rabbit hole..... much like many nutters did over covid and subsequently
But mine is specifically diet, predominantly the “carnivore” diet. There seems to be a LOT about this in various areas of the internet recently. Is it complete and dangerous bks?
The basic principles are that, as per millions of years until relatively recently, man has eaten purely meat and that is what we are supposed to consume. Particularly red meat. And eggs. And fat. And berries maybe.
There are many anecdotes/reports I’m reading of people eating purely red meat, nothing else , and it has cleared up their entire minor/moderate health issues in one fell swoop.
These people say that the western diet is completely artificial and utter utter poison (I’m sure we can all agree on this).
Yet we’re told red meat causes bowel cancer and we shouldn’t eat too much. Eggs are full of cholesterol and bad for heart health in excess. Fat is bad. Vegetable seed oil is “healthy” (something which seems to be severely warned against by the same that advocate carnivore.)
Another thing I’m reading about is the idea that certain plants, by virtue of their evolved desire to survive, are quite often toxic (oxalates content for example) and actually bad for our health. That the entire “food pyramid” is a rather cynical commercial invention, etc etc.
The same advocates also promote fasting, yet just recently there was a news story that fasting is bad for heart health..... published based on very shonkily conducted and dubiously funded research.
I don’t know what to believe actually and am worried I’ve lost my way slightly
Any thoughts? Is the generally scientific view correct, or are the proponents of what I’ve described above on to something
Sounds by the language you have used in this post that you've kinda made your mind up already and are merely seeking validation? Eat what you want man, seems simple. But mine is specifically diet, predominantly the “carnivore” diet. There seems to be a LOT about this in various areas of the internet recently. Is it complete and dangerous b
ks?The basic principles are that, as per millions of years until relatively recently, man has eaten purely meat and that is what we are supposed to consume. Particularly red meat. And eggs. And fat. And berries maybe.
There are many anecdotes/reports I’m reading of people eating purely red meat, nothing else , and it has cleared up their entire minor/moderate health issues in one fell swoop.
These people say that the western diet is completely artificial and utter utter poison (I’m sure we can all agree on this).
Yet we’re told red meat causes bowel cancer and we shouldn’t eat too much. Eggs are full of cholesterol and bad for heart health in excess. Fat is bad. Vegetable seed oil is “healthy” (something which seems to be severely warned against by the same that advocate carnivore.)
Another thing I’m reading about is the idea that certain plants, by virtue of their evolved desire to survive, are quite often toxic (oxalates content for example) and actually bad for our health. That the entire “food pyramid” is a rather cynical commercial invention, etc etc.
The same advocates also promote fasting, yet just recently there was a news story that fasting is bad for heart health..... published based on very shonkily conducted and dubiously funded research.
I don’t know what to believe actually and am worried I’ve lost my way slightly
Any thoughts? Is the generally scientific view correct, or are the proponents of what I’ve described above on to something
grumbledoak said:
Hunting isn't that difficult or dangerous. We are very good at it. We know this. We have studied the "primitive" hunting cultures that we encountered. They ate when they were hungry. It was that simple.
It’s harder than picking fruit off a tree though…Yes, ancient hominids hunted, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t also forage.
PlywoodPascal said:
It’s harder than picking fruit off a tree though…
Yes, ancient hominids hunted, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t also forage.
Pop into your nearest woodland in February and let us know what you find to eat. Hell, try it today.Yes, ancient hominids hunted, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t also forage.
It is like that for most of the year across most of the world.
grumbledoak said:
Hunting isn't that difficult or dangerous. We are very good at it. We know this. We have studied the "primitive" hunting cultures that we encountered. They ate when they were hungry. It was that simple.
Inland Australia is pretty barren. There you eat witchetty grubs because that is all there is. Elsewhere we hunted bigger animals because they offer more reward for your effort.
The megafauna all didn't go on holiday. They are gone because we ate them.
The bold is part of the theory certainly.Inland Australia is pretty barren. There you eat witchetty grubs because that is all there is. Elsewhere we hunted bigger animals because they offer more reward for your effort.
The megafauna all didn't go on holiday. They are gone because we ate them.
The point is that we are omnivores and opportunists. Hunting is harder and more dangerous than the alternative, we ate all sorts including (probably) carrion.
I have a friend who started this diet. It seemed harmless enough to begin with, but he’s now been banned from the Sainsbury’s and the Tescos near by for spear-shopping. He was chased out of farmfoods the other week because he missed a 1kg pack of bone-in chicken thighs and nicked a refrigerant line in their freezer, causing it to explosively decompress.
I think he’s on thin ice in M&S, too, after a medium-range spear throw in the bbq section ricocheted off a shelf-edge and pinned the deputy store manager to the Father’s Day display by the hem of his voluminous nylon trousers (store uniforms never fit the best). He’s lucky it wasn’t worse.
He’s been learning Inuktitut and to be honest his sabbatical in Iqaluit can’t come soon enough, he’s heading out there and then onwards to a smaller community to get further away from vegetables.
I think he’s on thin ice in M&S, too, after a medium-range spear throw in the bbq section ricocheted off a shelf-edge and pinned the deputy store manager to the Father’s Day display by the hem of his voluminous nylon trousers (store uniforms never fit the best). He’s lucky it wasn’t worse.
He’s been learning Inuktitut and to be honest his sabbatical in Iqaluit can’t come soon enough, he’s heading out there and then onwards to a smaller community to get further away from vegetables.
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