650S Spider or V12 Vantage S Roadster?

[12pack]

ANOpax said:

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Two other things you (OP) haven't considered in your desktop comparison;

1 The Aston is smaller, which matters on B-road blasts.
2 The Aston is fugly with the roof up and it's a soft top vs the Macca's much more robust and aesthetically pleasing hard top.

Well, the Aston is a little bit less wide (4.3cm to be precise) than the 650, it feels much wider and longer because of the poor forward visibility. Forward visibility is one of the defining characteristics of McLaren, which makes them so usable and fun on B roads. And this is exactly why a paper comparison is useless.

And per a previous discussion the “heart and soul of the car is the engine” is exactly the crap that those who don’t actual know about performance driving espouse. In fact for a performance car - it’s the chassis. Just ask anyone in motorsports.

To reiterate - I have both. The Aston does feel rather slow (I also have monster DD EVs) and unpolished in its dynamics. A lot of work went into squeezing that V12 into the engine bay leaving little time for much else than overly stiffening the spring rates to compensate. The body itself remains a bit wobbly. As I said earlier - I liken in to a Harley. Nice for a cruise with the SO, but really not in the same league as a performance car.

Here’s an old but interesting bit by someone who knows about driving.
https://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives...

If the 650 is “from the league above” compared to a GT12….
I especially like and agree with the concluding remarks.

Edited by 12pack on Wednesday 15th May 13:58

[franki68]

12pack said:

ANOpax said:

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Two other things you (OP) haven't considered in your desktop comparison;

1 The Aston is smaller, which matters on B-road blasts.
2 The Aston is fugly with the roof up and it's a soft top vs the Macca's much more robust and aesthetically pleasing hard top.

Well, the Aston is a little bit less wide (4.3cm to be precise) than the 650, it feels much wider and longer because of the poor forward visibility. Forward visibility is one of the defining characteristics of McLaren, which makes them so usable and fun on B roads. And this is exactly why a paper comparison is useless.

And per a previous discussion the “heart and soul of the car is the engine” is exactly the crap that those who don’t actual know about performance driving espouse. In fact for a performance car - it’s the chassis. Just ask anyone in motorsports.

To reiterate - I have both. The Aston does feel rather slow (I also have monster DD EVs) and unpolished in its dynamics. A lot of work went into squeezing that V12 into the engine bay leaving little time for much else than overly stiffening the spring rates to compensate. The body itself remains a bit wobbly. As I said earlier - I liken in to a Harley. Nice for a cruise with the SO, but really not in the same league as a performance car.

Here’s an old but interesting bit by someone who knows about driving.
https://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives...


If the 650 is “from the league above” compared to a GT12….
I especially like and agree with the concluding remarks.

Edited by 12pack on Wednesday 15th May 13:58

If you actually read what he said he is not likely to track the car so I’m not sure your motorsport references are relevant ,nor your childish comments .

[12pack]

franki68 said:

If you actually read what he said he is not likely to track the car so I’m not sure your motorsport references are relevant .

Fair enough.

franki68 said:

,nor your childish comments .

An autological statement if I ever saw one.

[carspath]

franki68 - I agree entirely with both the points you make .



12pack - Please could you express yourself more clearly .
You obviously have some lovely supercars , have a wealth of experience driving these exclusive machines , and are a font of supercar knowledge .
Many of us would love to learn from you .

But if you are unable to say plainly in prose what you are thinking , then we will not be able to understand you , and you will deprive forum readers of your wisdom .

Maybe using simpler words whose meaning you fully understand might help ?
And being precise and succinct might also be helpful ?

For example :

1) '' Forward visibility is one of the defining characteristics of McLaren... '' .
This sentence simply doesnt make sense .
Do you mean '' Good forward visibility...'' ?

2) '' Espouse '' ? In this context ? Really ?

3)'' Autological statement '' ? Wow ! In response to franki68's last posting ? Really ?

4) Saying '' 4.3 cm narrower '' rather than '' a little bit less wide (4.3cm to be precise ) '' would make it easier for me to understand , and would also save me a few nanoseconds which I could then use to read more PH postings .


Please do keep posting as I would love to own a McLaren and/or an Aston one day ( if that empty piggy-bank ever fills up ) , and I am currently living vicariously ( Gosh a big word here - I hope that I have spelt and used it correctly ) through your postings . : )

[12pack]

Thanks for your comments. I looked through my post again, and I believe it to be in perfectly clear GCSE-level English.

Anyway, based on their earlier reply, I’m sure the OP has the opinions they were looking for. I hope they enjoy the rest of their hunt.

Edited by 12pack on Thursday 16th May 08:48

[CitySlicker]

The vantage is a great little car. I had a v12vsr for 4 years and covered 18,000 miles which included a few track days and a lot of spirited driving. I think Matt Farah sums it up quite well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhH6NH4s3vo&t=...

[ripley500]

I have long been an Aston Martin fan and my manual V12 Vantage is the car I've owned the longest - about 14 years now! In comparison, I've had various model McLarens (570 Spider, 600LT Spider, 12C & currently the Artura).

I think your summary is pretty accurate - for a drivers car, the Aston doesn't come close to the Mclaren both on road and on track and at circa £85k for either car then they both represent great cars for the money. IMHO, what the Aston has is character and a real 'feel good' factor about it - the noise, the fact that it's such an old school type car (especially in manual form). Of all my cars, it's the one that I feel I could not let go. That said, I probably only drive it for a few hundred miles per year now - the Mclarens always get the nod for most drives.

My Vantage has been utterly reliable and only needed regular servicing and there are a number of independents you can go to if needed - I suspect if I ever kept a Mclaren as long as the Aston then running costs would be higher overall.

There's no bad choice here, as both cars are awesome and sure to put a smile on your face. Tough choice but if I could only have one then the Mclaren would win over.

[Purso]

I had an aston and have a mclaren, for me the issue with aston is that it doesnt have a clear identity other than the james bond connection, its not the fastest mclaren and ferrari are faster, its not the most luxurious bentley is and its not the prettiest (subjective) the previous gen vantage looked like an uglier ftype and the dbx pre 707 looked very awkward so I havent understood the niche they were trying to fit into. I think this is being addressed with the latest cars power figures but feel they are a premium brand without direction.

[samoht]

ripley500 said:

My Vantage has been utterly reliable and only needed regular servicing and there are a number of independents you can go to if needed

The relative paucity of good McLaren independents is definitely an issue, and one I hope will improve over time. At present I think the significance of this factor in McLaren ownership rather depends where you live, if you're anywhere near the M4 corridor then V Engineering in Thatcham are IME great, if you live in Scotland then your options are more limited.

[Davyt]

samoht said:

If your not on commission from V engineering you certainly should be,

The relative paucity of good McLaren independents is definitely an issue, and one I hope will improve over time. At present I think the significance of this factor in McLaren ownership rather depends where you live, if you're anywhere near the M4 corridor then V Engineering in Thatcham are IME great, if you live in Scotland then your options are more limited.

[PinkHouse]

Davyt said:

samoht said:

If your not on commission from V engineering you certainly should be,

The relative paucity of good McLaren independents is definitely an issue, and one I hope will improve over time. At present I think the significance of this factor in McLaren ownership rather depends where you live, if you're anywhere near the M4 corridor then V Engineering in Thatcham are IME great, if you live in Scotland then your options are more limited.

To be fair I'm getting my car serviced at V because of his insistence and they've been great so far!

[Davyt]

samoht said:

If your not on commission from V engineering you certainly should be,

The relative paucity of good McLaren independents is definitely an issue, and one I hope will improve over time. At present I think the significance of this factor in McLaren ownership rather depends where you live, if you're anywhere near the M4 corridor then V Engineering in Thatcham are IME great, if you live in Scotland then your options are more limited.

[CitySlicker]

Purso said:

I had an aston and have a mclaren, for me the issue with aston is that it doesnt have a clear identity other than the james bond connection, its not the fastest mclaren and ferrari are faster, its not the most luxurious bentley is and its not the prettiest (subjective) the previous gen vantage looked like an uglier ftype and the dbx pre 707 looked very awkward so I havent understood the niche they were trying to fit into. I think this is being addressed with the latest cars power figures but feel they are a premium brand without direction.

It's great to have the fastest car with all the latest gizmos however the marginal utility for the extra performance quickly diminishes above 500bhp, maybe even less. If you are tracking the car then yes, I can see why owners become power hungry. If you want theatre, crazy looks and the knowledge that your car will out perform almost everything else then the 650s is the correct choice. Although saying that the vantage is a lot of fun driving near to the limit, the steering and chassis really talk to you and it can keep up with the fast cars out there on the twisties.

[12pack]

Some understandably biased comments from owners of only the vantage. But I think that my comments and those of others who have owned both, in reply to the OP’s question, are probably the most valid.

It’s a bit strange that a faster, lighter, better designed and implemented supercar with exotic features is the same price as an older sports car. It’s even stranger is that one would actually chose the latter because it’s good enough.

Using the metric of “keeping up on the open road”, shows a lack of understanding that these performance differences only manifest themselves driving nearer the limit for miles, and not brief spurts of acceleration while otherwise cruising. The same rational could be used to get an MX5 instead. You can really hammer the heck out of it instead.

A final point for the OP that I didn’t mention, and perhaps not so important to you. My young nephews are always disappointed when we roll up for a visit in the Vantage. They’d rather see the McLaren - or even the Teslas. The Vantage seems to have lost a bit of the cool factor.

Edited by 12pack on Friday 17th May 17:04

[ex-devonpaul]

I've been reading these answers with interest, bacause to my mind they are very different options, and to undecided between one or the other suggests the OP doesn't really know what they want it for.

Interesting how owners of both tend to drift towards taking the McL out, presumably because they want driving to be an "event" and the theatre of the 650 appeals. It also depends a lot on your age and brand perception - I tend to think of AM as Bond linked, big fast GT cars lacking the ultimate in sportiness but incredibly cool. McL OTOH are outright supercars with all the associated drama, but far more shouty and attention grabbing.

So if my goal for the car were 2 week continental trips with spouse and luggage, with a bit of mountain pass fun thrown in, then the Vantage would win. Certainly it would win with the wife as she really wanted a V8V when we got the Maser.

But for my money it would be the McL. Enough space for a couple of soft bags for short breaks, and 'tres commas' doors. Besides you can fedex a suitcase to the continent cheaper than adding it to a Ryanair booking, as I found out when I forgot to select one and then tried to add it 2 min later. That way you only need to pack for half the trip

[Oaky]

12pack said:

Thanks for your comments. I looked through my post again, and I believe it to be in perfectly clear GCSE-level English.

Anyway, based on their earlier reply, I’m sure the OP has the opinions they were looking for. I hope they enjoy the rest of their hunt.

Edited by 12pack on Thursday 16th May 08:48

Yep

[CitySlicker]

12pack said:

Some understandably biased comments from owners of only the vantage. But I think that my comments and those of others who have owned both, in reply to the OP’s question, are probably the most valid.

It’s a bit strange that a faster, lighter, better designed and implemented supercar with exotic features is the same price as an older sports car. It’s even stranger is that one would actually chose the latter because it’s good enough.

Using the metric of “keeping up on the open road”, shows a lack of understanding that these performance differences only manifest themselves driving nearer the limit for miles, and not brief spurts of acceleration while otherwise cruising. The same rational could be used to get an MX5 instead. You can really hammer the heck out of it instead.

A final point for the OP that I didn’t mention, and perhaps not so important to you. My young nephews are always disappointed when we roll up for a visit in the Vantage. They’d rather see the McLaren - or even the Teslas. The Vantage seems to have lost a bit of the cool factor.

Edited by 12pack on Friday 17th May 17:04

You'd be better off not assuming so much.

Ex owner and don't own Aston shares either

I'm talking about several days of driving over mountain passes, not a squirt up sloane street hence using the term 'twisties'.

Strange for you perhaps but other people value different things to you so it's useful that people with a lot of experience contribute towards discussions so we don't all live in an echo chamber.

650s will probably be more expensive to run, better ride but less luggage space for touring. Vantage has less power and the automated manual gearbox can be drag but the sound is unbeatable.

[HIS LM]

Instead of hating on 12pack for his grammar (I thought this was a motoring forum) which does nothing other than stifle opinion.
How about Trident step up and make a comment there is more than an enough opinion to make an informed decision.

[Frankychops]

Fact is, they’re leagues apart, with the 650s ahead. The vantage engine sounds nices nice, that’s it.

[macdeb]

HIS LM said:

Instead of hating on 12pack for his grammar (I thought this was a motoring forum) which does nothing other than stifle opinion.
How about Trident step up and make a comment there is more than an enough opinion to make an informed decision.

^^^^