Nobody builds the bike I want
Discussion
SteveKTMer said:
Greenbot35 said:
All of them?
Look at the range of bikes from say 2005 and compare it to the range now.
If you exclude cruisers, 125s, dirt bikes and scooters, which aren't in your mind anyway, there are more available now than there ever has been. You're looking almost 20 years ago, technology has been through several revolutions since then. BMW has become a different motorcycle company since then, almost unrecognisable with the litre sports bikes and derivatives. What's happened to KTM since them ? Wow. Kawasaki, streets ahead of where they were, same with Honda. Look at the range of bikes from say 2005 and compare it to the range now.
https://www.motorcycle.com/specs/bmw/2005.html will show you BMW bikes from 2005, almost every one is available now plus a whole new range of naked, 'herritage' and litre sports bikes.
I think you need to get yourself to a large bike show. I went to EICMA last year and it's amazing what's available, I was really impressed.
I went to the nec and glad to see cbr and zxr6 back but I would love a new vfr800 for example.
Neal H said:
So, it seems that if I want a litre 150hp purpose built sports tourer my options are limited to Suzuki or Kawasaki - neither of which appeal. If I wanted a big, tall, heavy adventure style bike then I have plenty of options.
Fortunately, sticking with what I have is no great hardship as both the Tiger and Speed Twin are great bikes. I’m just getting a bit fed up with paying twice for road tax, insurance, maintenance etc and still miss the do it all brilliance of my old FZ1 Fazer!
I’ll just sit tight for the time being and hope that somebody launches the bike that I actually want to buy.
I suspect you're choosing to ignore bikes mentioned above plus the likes of the MT9, 193Kg and 120bhp or so ? Or is it too ugly ? How about the BMW S1000XR 170 bhp and 227Kg ? Too fast probably, or maybe looks like an adventure bike but in fact is a sports bike with a different seating position ?Fortunately, sticking with what I have is no great hardship as both the Tiger and Speed Twin are great bikes. I’m just getting a bit fed up with paying twice for road tax, insurance, maintenance etc and still miss the do it all brilliance of my old FZ1 Fazer!
I’ll just sit tight for the time being and hope that somebody launches the bike that I actually want to buy.
So Goldilocks, come back and tell us when you've found mumma's porridge
SteveKTMer said:
Neal H said:
So, it seems that if I want a litre 150hp purpose built sports tourer my options are limited to Suzuki or Kawasaki - neither of which appeal. If I wanted a big, tall, heavy adventure style bike then I have plenty of options.
Fortunately, sticking with what I have is no great hardship as both the Tiger and Speed Twin are great bikes. I’m just getting a bit fed up with paying twice for road tax, insurance, maintenance etc and still miss the do it all brilliance of my old FZ1 Fazer!
I’ll just sit tight for the time being and hope that somebody launches the bike that I actually want to buy.
I suspect you're choosing to ignore bikes mentioned above plus the likes of the MT9, 193Kg and 120bhp or so ? Or is it too ugly ? How about the BMW S1000XR 170 bhp and 227Kg ? Too fast probably, or maybe looks like an adventure bike but in fact is a sports bike with a different seating position ?Fortunately, sticking with what I have is no great hardship as both the Tiger and Speed Twin are great bikes. I’m just getting a bit fed up with paying twice for road tax, insurance, maintenance etc and still miss the do it all brilliance of my old FZ1 Fazer!
I’ll just sit tight for the time being and hope that somebody launches the bike that I actually want to buy.
So Goldilocks, come back and tell us when you've found mumma's porridge
And in this case there's two perfectly good bikes which meet all the requirements, they just "don't appeal" for some reason. Maybe it is a shame that Honda don't make a touring Fireblade, or ditto the Speed Triple, but who really cares? The Suzuki GT is exceptionally good, I presume the Kawasaki is as well, just pick one and ride it.
trickywoo said:
OutInTheShed said:
TBH, tyres are less of a cost than the old days, they last longer and haven't gone up as much as new bikes or petrol?
Back in the 80s, tyres for a big bike were a major expense. A significant part of 'it's cheaper to take the car'.
Not sure about that. 6k miles of fuel at 45mpg will cost you about £900.Back in the 80s, tyres for a big bike were a major expense. A significant part of 'it's cheaper to take the car'.
I’d say you won’t be far off needing a set of tyres at around that mileage, on average. Which are £350+ if you go for ride in / out fitting.
If you do a rear in 2k miles as I do it gets expensive if you do any real miles.
I've a vague idea a back tyre was over £60 back then? Fuel was 40p a litre?
Back in those days, my cars were real sheds, so the other costs like oil and so on were much more for the bike than the car.
Car tyres were cheap radials.
In those days, I was skint enough to actually work out which was cheaper!
Now, my bike does 8,000 miles on Pirelli Angel rears, which cost £120 last time IIRC.
Meanwhile petrol is £1.40 plus. The bike does 60mpg, the car 40mpg or less.
Car tyres seem to cost nearly as much as bike tyres now and don't last forever.
I don't do enough bike miles to care very much now.
The bloody pushbikes seem to cost a lot per mile in tyres, chains, and random parts.
Marquezs Stabilisers said:
OutInTheShed said:
I have been in a similar position for some years now.
I have a Ducati ST4s.
It ticks all those boxes apart from only being about 120hp.
AIUI, none of the bigger twin engines like say an 1198 will fit the ST frame.
People have built fake superbikes out of ST's, I wonder if you could build an ST from a superbike?
The subframe is probably a lot stronger on an ST to take a pillion and three boxes. A mate did put a 1098 engine into a 996, but a faster ST might not work: isn't the ST frame based on the 888?I have a Ducati ST4s.
It ticks all those boxes apart from only being about 120hp.
AIUI, none of the bigger twin engines like say an 1198 will fit the ST frame.
People have built fake superbikes out of ST's, I wonder if you could build an ST from a superbike?
I wanted an ST3 back in the day but wife would murder me if I bought another Ducati after the experience with my Multistrada
My bike has only been near 'the trade' for MOTs since I've had it.
modellista said:
SteveKTMer said:
Neal H said:
So, it seems that if I want a litre 150hp purpose built sports tourer my options are limited to Suzuki or Kawasaki - neither of which appeal. If I wanted a big, tall, heavy adventure style bike then I have plenty of options.
Fortunately, sticking with what I have is no great hardship as both the Tiger and Speed Twin are great bikes. I’m just getting a bit fed up with paying twice for road tax, insurance, maintenance etc and still miss the do it all brilliance of my old FZ1 Fazer!
I’ll just sit tight for the time being and hope that somebody launches the bike that I actually want to buy.
I suspect you're choosing to ignore bikes mentioned above plus the likes of the MT9, 193Kg and 120bhp or so ? Or is it too ugly ? How about the BMW S1000XR 170 bhp and 227Kg ? Too fast probably, or maybe looks like an adventure bike but in fact is a sports bike with a different seating position ?Fortunately, sticking with what I have is no great hardship as both the Tiger and Speed Twin are great bikes. I’m just getting a bit fed up with paying twice for road tax, insurance, maintenance etc and still miss the do it all brilliance of my old FZ1 Fazer!
I’ll just sit tight for the time being and hope that somebody launches the bike that I actually want to buy.
So Goldilocks, come back and tell us when you've found mumma's porridge
And in this case there's two perfectly good bikes which meet all the requirements, they just "don't appeal" for some reason. Maybe it is a shame that Honda don't make a touring Fireblade, or ditto the Speed Triple, but who really cares? The Suzuki GT is exceptionally good, I presume the Kawasaki is as well, just pick one and ride it.
Even with a "normal pillion and reasonable luggage, if the engine output remained the same as the sports bike that would likely put the bikes overall weight above the arbitrary 230kg in order to handle the stresses involved. There's a reason that all the bike power bikes (170bhp+) capable of 2 up sports touring are heavier than sports bikes. Anyone remember the Gen 1 Hayabusa ali sub frame issues? Even the BMW XR, which does "just" make the weight has had the S1000RR engine detuned significantly, at least in part, to reduce the stress demands on the frame and cycle parts when riding two up.
black-k1 said:
I agree but I think it slightly misses the point. A "touring Fireblade" would need a lot of extra weight to support the addition of a pillion and the associated luggage. With a sports tourer, unlike a sports bike, you can guarantee that some overly large rider will add an overly large pillion, with a huge amount of heavy luggage, including the tent and other kit on top of the 50l top box, and then ride on bumpy roads at 3 figure speeds and (rightly) expect the bike not to collapse. The only way manufacturers can actually ensure that a collapse doesn't happen is with lots of strong but heavy material.
Even with a "normal pillion and reasonable luggage, if the engine output remained the same as the sports bike that would likely put the bikes overall weight above the arbitrary 230kg in order to handle the stresses involved. There's a reason that all the bike power bikes (170bhp+) capable of 2 up sports touring are heavier than sports bikes. Anyone remember the Gen 1 Hayabusa ali sub frame issues? Even the BMW XR, which does "just" make the weight has had the S1000RR engine detuned significantly, at least in part, to reduce the stress demands on the frame and cycle parts when riding two up.
Some fair comment in that.Even with a "normal pillion and reasonable luggage, if the engine output remained the same as the sports bike that would likely put the bikes overall weight above the arbitrary 230kg in order to handle the stresses involved. There's a reason that all the bike power bikes (170bhp+) capable of 2 up sports touring are heavier than sports bikes. Anyone remember the Gen 1 Hayabusa ali sub frame issues? Even the BMW XR, which does "just" make the weight has had the S1000RR engine detuned significantly, at least in part, to reduce the stress demands on the frame and cycle parts when riding two up.
Also 'touring' riders maybe tend to rack up the miles.
You can have a 200BHP sports bike and people will buy it and do 5,000 miles before the warranty runs out.
If you make a decent sports-tourer, buyers might use it for 10,000 miles per year so a less highly tuned engine might have fewer warranty claims?
And 'touring' riders value smooth controllable torque at lower RPM over peak power. So different cams or other tuning might be chosen.
Possibly wider gear ratios?
Then there's 'stability with luggage' issues, IIRC my bike is supposedly best not used over 200km/h with the panniers on, so why would it need more power?
I've never red-lined it with pillion and heavy luggage, but I suspect 3rd gear wheelies from the throttle are quite plausible with 120BHP and the CofG moved back by loading it up?.
black-k1 said:
If you're pushing the bike backwards up hill then the overall weight can be a real issue but a little bit of planning and the amount of pushing is kept to a minimum. Even with the panniers and other touring kit on, I've never had any issues manoeuvring it. And that's not just me. There are a number of other Old Gits with H2 SXs and, as far as I'm aware, none have significant issues and none have been dropped.
The perception of issues around the weight of a bike can often be much worse than the reality.
Have you ever sung the praises of a bike you dont own or haven’t previously owned? I like some of the bikes i have owned but they all have flaws, none of yours ever do until you buy the next one and start scraping the pegs at 150mph 😂 The perception of issues around the weight of a bike can often be much worse than the reality.
There are always alternatives to what people ask for other than what you have and especially on a previous thread someone wants a lightweight fun bike to ride in Spain and you advise a bloody behemoth of an H2SX!
patchb said:
black-k1 said:
If you're pushing the bike backwards up hill then the overall weight can be a real issue but a little bit of planning and the amount of pushing is kept to a minimum. Even with the panniers and other touring kit on, I've never had any issues manoeuvring it. And that's not just me. There are a number of other Old Gits with H2 SXs and, as far as I'm aware, none have significant issues and none have been dropped.
The perception of issues around the weight of a bike can often be much worse than the reality.
Have you ever sung the praises of a bike you dont own or haven’t previously owned? I like some of the bikes i have owned but they all have flaws, none of yours ever do until you buy the next one and start scraping the pegs at 150mph ?? The perception of issues around the weight of a bike can often be much worse than the reality.
There are always alternatives to what people ask for other than what you have and especially on a previous thread someone wants a lightweight fun bike to ride in Spain and you advise a bloody behemoth of an H2SX!
moto_traxport said:
patchb said:
black-k1 said:
If you're pushing the bike backwards up hill then the overall weight can be a real issue but a little bit of planning and the amount of pushing is kept to a minimum. Even with the panniers and other touring kit on, I've never had any issues manoeuvring it. And that's not just me. There are a number of other Old Gits with H2 SXs and, as far as I'm aware, none have significant issues and none have been dropped.
The perception of issues around the weight of a bike can often be much worse than the reality.
Have you ever sung the praises of a bike you dont own or haven’t previously owned? I like some of the bikes i have owned but they all have flaws, none of yours ever do until you buy the next one and start scraping the pegs at 150mph ?? The perception of issues around the weight of a bike can often be much worse than the reality.
There are always alternatives to what people ask for other than what you have and especially on a previous thread someone wants a lightweight fun bike to ride in Spain and you advise a bloody behemoth of an H2SX!
patchb said:
There are always alternatives to what people ask for other than what you have and especially on a previous thread someone wants a lightweight fun bike to ride in Spain and you advise a bloody behemoth of an H2SX!
Ah Yes! That would be the thread where the OP, in the post directly above mine said ...samjlevy said:
....
I’ve also been looking at a KTM 1290 GT, not sure if it’s maybe a bit too GT?
....
The bike that is probably the closest "competition" to the H2 SX!I’ve also been looking at a KTM 1290 GT, not sure if it’s maybe a bit too GT?
....
Neal H said:
I’m very happy with my pair of Triumph’s - a Tiger 900 RP and a Speed Twin 1200, but ideally I’d only want one bike, but nobody appears to build it.
The criteria is a good looking sports tourer with the ability to fit luggage with at least 150hp and weighing less than 230kg wet.
The options out there all seem to fail either the looks or weight test, usually both and I don’t want it to be an adventure style bike. If Triumph came up with a proper faired sports tourer with road biased suspension based on the Speed Triple 1200 I’d be first in line for a test ride. Or if Ducati shoe horned the V4 engine into their Supersport I’d do the same.
Is there something out there that I’m simply overlooking? If not I’ll just have to stick with what I have until someone builds ‘my’ bike.
The criteria is a good looking sports tourer with the ability to fit luggage with at least 150hp and weighing less than 230kg wet.
The options out there all seem to fail either the looks or weight test, usually both and I don’t want it to be an adventure style bike. If Triumph came up with a proper faired sports tourer with road biased suspension based on the Speed Triple 1200 I’d be first in line for a test ride. Or if Ducati shoe horned the V4 engine into their Supersport I’d do the same.
Is there something out there that I’m simply overlooking? If not I’ll just have to stick with what I have until someone builds ‘my’ bike.
CaiosH said:
I felt for a while that Ducati are missing a trick by not doing a more powerful version of the 950 Supersport. One with 150bhp. It really would be an ideal bike, weekend blast and touring.
Surely something from BMW ticks those boxes? R1250RS?
I think a lot of people are looking for the same thing. Im test riding a Diavel next week to feel how it rides.
Well, a friend and I test rode the Tiger 1200 GT, Multistrada V2, 950 Supersport & V4 Diavel on Friday. Surely something from BMW ticks those boxes? R1250RS?
I think a lot of people are looking for the same thing. Im test riding a Diavel next week to feel how it rides.
The V4 Diavel absolutely blew our minds! An incredible bike that does everything. Silky smooth, comfortable, feels light& agile, fast, easy to ride, happy at slow speed and on the side of the tyre. We rode them all on a B road, A road and dual dual carriageway. Even the wind protection on the Diavel is pretty good (at legal speeds) as your sat behind the tank and they've done some good work on the aero.
Try one for yourself! The dry weight is just under your limit.
I think I'll be ordering one & my friend now has to go back and test the Multistrada V4.
I'm in the exact same boat. I really like the Sport Touring genre and have a BMW R1250rs and I'm eagerly waiting the new R1300RS , Less weight more power.
As a touring bike I think the R1250RS does a great job, really good mpg, performance, good handling on the right tyres and all that warranty . Too heavy though.
In the meantime I keep looking at a last of the breed K1300s Msport as an additional bike. Motorrad better hurry up !
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