Do I need a compo face?
Discussion
Vee said:
Relevant as he is blaming the server.
It's not realistic to expect someone on the lower end of the pay scale to do much more than get the food and drink and bring it to the table.
Sorry, I still don't understand how their pay level affects this?It's not realistic to expect someone on the lower end of the pay scale to do much more than get the food and drink and bring it to the table.
Are you suggesting that if the server were on £40 an hour instead of £11 the child was less likely to be scalded?
Hondashark said:
Thankfully solicitors are of a different opinion to the bellends blaming us.
Our daughter was in a position of safety and while we were distracted someone put her in danger.
That is fully blameable and rightly deserving of compensation. The issue is proving it when you have no CCTV evidence.
The fact here that you've stated 'while we were distracted' says it all, sadly. 'Someone' didn't put her in danger, you did.Our daughter was in a position of safety and while we were distracted someone put her in danger.
That is fully blameable and rightly deserving of compensation. The issue is proving it when you have no CCTV evidence.
Hope she heels ok, kids are tough and she'll re-bound I'm sure.
Vee said:
Come on, horrible that your child was injured but the blame is not with the server here. What do you expect from someone being paid minimum wage, full H&S training, the ability to second guess what a child will or will not do ?
I agree that I don't think the OP should blame the server, but on this point - no, you can't expect then to know what the child will do (in particular, if they don't have kids themselves, they may be totally unaware of how fast and grabby an infant can be), but yes, on minimum wage, an employee absolutely should have full H&S training as suits their role, and in this case, serving hot drinks should come under that.OP, this is obviously a horrible thing to happen to your kid, but hopefully it will not result in any long term damage. However, if you've already sought proper paid legal advice, and that advice was that you're unlikely to get anywhere, I think you should listen to it.
Go to the papers etc if you want, but I think you should be ready for the comments section on any resulting article to be even harsher than here, and without the figleaf of notional anonymity you've got on PH.
Really sorry to read about the injuries to your child and really wish her a full and quick recovery. Just awful to read.
I’m not a lawyer, but my wife reminded me of part of her training about negligence, was, would you expect others to do the same. ie. Would you expect another waiter to position the tray of drinks in the same manner and take the same (or lack of) care?
Personally I would think that all servers at all cafes would serve the drinks in the way described, especially as you invited the position of the tray by clearing books away. It suggests you’d expected them to be placed there?
Horrible situation to be in, but can’t see that it’s anything other than a bad accident. I get the need to lash out and blame someone. My wife was unable to work for 20years because of a workplace injury and we looked into legal action but there were so many grey areas - the most important it was a hard to prove her injuries were caused by a chemical spill at her workplace. We were told to get on with life, and we did as horrible as it was to accept.
Best wishes to you and your family in recovering.
I’m not a lawyer, but my wife reminded me of part of her training about negligence, was, would you expect others to do the same. ie. Would you expect another waiter to position the tray of drinks in the same manner and take the same (or lack of) care?
Personally I would think that all servers at all cafes would serve the drinks in the way described, especially as you invited the position of the tray by clearing books away. It suggests you’d expected them to be placed there?
Horrible situation to be in, but can’t see that it’s anything other than a bad accident. I get the need to lash out and blame someone. My wife was unable to work for 20years because of a workplace injury and we looked into legal action but there were so many grey areas - the most important it was a hard to prove her injuries were caused by a chemical spill at her workplace. We were told to get on with life, and we did as horrible as it was to accept.
Best wishes to you and your family in recovering.
Forester1965 said:
Sorry, I still don't understand how their pay level affects this?
Are you suggesting that if the server were on £40 an hour instead of £11 the child was less likely to be scalded?
There probably is some subtle correlation but it probably more relates to whether the server was a parent themselves. For example, I wouldn't personally bring a pot of boiling water and place it anywhere near a baby unless I was certain the adult at the table had 'accepted' responsibility, perhaps by placing a hand on the tray etc. I suspect most other parents would do the same thing, as we know what can go wrong. But I don't think you can add that into a server's training requirement, as there could be a million similar 'risks' if you started to think about it. It's just something which comes with age/experience being able to anticipate what might go wrong.Are you suggesting that if the server were on £40 an hour instead of £11 the child was less likely to be scalded?
Vee said:
Relevant as he is blaming the server.
It's not realistic to expect someone on the lower end of the pay scale to do much more than get the food and drink and bring it to the table.
He cleared the space so she could put the tray down, what else was the waiter to do? having cleared the space for the hot drinks surely only the father knows the reach of his child? wtf.It's not realistic to expect someone on the lower end of the pay scale to do much more than get the food and drink and bring it to the table.
If you think this is about low pay you are a massive nimrod, ffs lol.
He cleared a space indicating thats where he wanted the stuff to go.
Edited by MightyBadger on Wednesday 1st May 08:38
OP, I hope your daughter continues to recover and the scarring fades away to nothing obvious.
My son managed to burn himself on his leg on a mini motorcycle nearly 30 years ago at one of those county fairs - it takes a while obviously but very little signs today.
In your daughters case I think the only “negligence “as such was down to you as Parents and I think continuing the argument legally doesn’t sound like a great idea.
I certainly wouldn’t be going to the papers or social media - the “law” of unintended consequences could come into play.
My son managed to burn himself on his leg on a mini motorcycle nearly 30 years ago at one of those county fairs - it takes a while obviously but very little signs today.
In your daughters case I think the only “negligence “as such was down to you as Parents and I think continuing the argument legally doesn’t sound like a great idea.
I certainly wouldn’t be going to the papers or social media - the “law” of unintended consequences could come into play.
MightyBadger said:
He cleared the space so she could put the tray down, what else was the waiter to do? having cleared the space for the hot drinks surely only the father knows the reach of his child? wtf.
If you think this is about low pay you are a massive nimrod, ffs lol.
He cleared a space indicating thats where he wanted the stuff to go.
The OP is expecting the server to watch out for what his kid might do whilst he and his wife are focused eslewhere.If you think this is about low pay you are a massive nimrod, ffs lol.
He cleared a space indicating thats where he wanted the stuff to go.
I am saying he cannot expect that of someone on low wages, who probably has other customers to deal with and is not paid enough to deal with the crap that probably comes their way every shift.
Maybe my written English is not good enough for people to understand, but you carry on with the insults - great bravery on the internet.
Sorry to hear about the whole incident I’m sure it was terrible and I hope for a full and speedy recovery.
If I was going to defend Morrisons, my argument would be that tables are for serving food. Since the injured one year old was in a high chair you had control of where the baby was positioned in relation to the food serving area. One year old babies in high chairs do not have octopus like reach, and so, rather than the server being at fault, I would say that you placed the child too close to the table. If the high chair had been just two inches further away you would have built in some safety margin, and the accident would have been avoided.
If I was going to defend Morrisons, my argument would be that tables are for serving food. Since the injured one year old was in a high chair you had control of where the baby was positioned in relation to the food serving area. One year old babies in high chairs do not have octopus like reach, and so, rather than the server being at fault, I would say that you placed the child too close to the table. If the high chair had been just two inches further away you would have built in some safety margin, and the accident would have been avoided.
thepritch said:
Really sorry to read about the injuries to your child and really wish her a full and quick recovery. Just awful to read.
I’m not a lawyer, but my wife reminded me of part of her training about negligence, was, would you expect others to do the same. ie. Would you expect another waiter to position the tray of drinks in the same manner and take the same (or lack of) care?
Personally I would think that all servers at all cafes would serve the drinks in the way described, especially as you invited the position of the tray by clearing books away. It suggests you’d expected them to be placed there?
Horrible situation to be in, but can’t see that it’s anything other than a bad accident. I get the need to lash out and blame someone. My wife was unable to work for 20years because of a workplace injury and we looked into legal action but there were so many grey areas - the most important it was a hard to prove her injuries were caused by a chemical spill at her workplace. We were told to get on with life, and we did as horrible as it was to accept.
Best wishes to you and your family in recovering.
+1, nicely put I’m not a lawyer, but my wife reminded me of part of her training about negligence, was, would you expect others to do the same. ie. Would you expect another waiter to position the tray of drinks in the same manner and take the same (or lack of) care?
Personally I would think that all servers at all cafes would serve the drinks in the way described, especially as you invited the position of the tray by clearing books away. It suggests you’d expected them to be placed there?
Horrible situation to be in, but can’t see that it’s anything other than a bad accident. I get the need to lash out and blame someone. My wife was unable to work for 20years because of a workplace injury and we looked into legal action but there were so many grey areas - the most important it was a hard to prove her injuries were caused by a chemical spill at her workplace. We were told to get on with life, and we did as horrible as it was to accept.
Best wishes to you and your family in recovering.
Vee said:
The OP is expecting the server to watch out for what his kid might do whilst he and his wife are focused eslewhere.
I am saying he cannot expect that of someone on low wages, who probably has other customers to deal with and is not paid enough to deal with the crap that probably comes their way every shift.
Maybe my written English is not good enough for people to understand, but you carry on with the insults - great bravery on the internet.
She had nothing to deal with, he cleared a space that indicated where the goods were to be placed. She did he job perfectly, all that ensued after that was not her doing/problem. Wages are nothing to do with it and is ridiculous to suggest they are in this case.I am saying he cannot expect that of someone on low wages, who probably has other customers to deal with and is not paid enough to deal with the crap that probably comes their way every shift.
Maybe my written English is not good enough for people to understand, but you carry on with the insults - great bravery on the internet.
Have a nice day.
edit, I take the insults back, one post wasn't enough to justify 'nimrod'.
Edited by MightyBadger on Wednesday 1st May 09:21
Edited by MightyBadger on Wednesday 1st May 09:56
Respectfully, OP, I feel you're in the wrong on this. You've admitted you were distracted by putting things away and cleared a space for the things to be put down. This is on you I'm afraid. I get this is a very distressing event and I hope you all put this behind you quickly. Don't look to blame anyone, chalk it up to experience. You know what to expect in future and will be more vigilant. Nobody is perfect, we all learn from our experiences.
I'm also in the 'not morrisons staff members fault" camp
Yes its not a nice thing for the kid to go through and yes we all hope they make a full recovery but grow some balls and admit that you were the one in the wrong.
Its your responsibility to make sure your child is safe at all times, you didnt and as such you must shoulder the blame.
Yes its not a nice thing for the kid to go through and yes we all hope they make a full recovery but grow some balls and admit that you were the one in the wrong.
Its your responsibility to make sure your child is safe at all times, you didnt and as such you must shoulder the blame.
None of us are perfect. We've all had things happen that we are responsible for and regret. Accepting and owning a mistake you've made is part of life and maturing as a person. In my opinion, the father of the child in question hasn't yet grasped this concept. Perhaps it's a generational outlook, but common honesty and decency should prevail regardless of age.
By all means feel guilty that you've allowed this to happen, but by no means try to drag an innocent third party in to cover your own ass. The more I look at this, the worse it comes across. Has it crossed your mind the anxiety and stress you've put an ostensibly totally innocent party through for no good reason? Everything you yourself have said in your depiction of events indicates that your own actions were the cause.
You really should be ashamed of yourself, not particularly for the accident, which, while unfortunate and avoidable, is all it was, but the way you're trying to deflect the blame from yourself makes me sick. What kind of an example is it to set as a parent?
By all means feel guilty that you've allowed this to happen, but by no means try to drag an innocent third party in to cover your own ass. The more I look at this, the worse it comes across. Has it crossed your mind the anxiety and stress you've put an ostensibly totally innocent party through for no good reason? Everything you yourself have said in your depiction of events indicates that your own actions were the cause.
You really should be ashamed of yourself, not particularly for the accident, which, while unfortunate and avoidable, is all it was, but the way you're trying to deflect the blame from yourself makes me sick. What kind of an example is it to set as a parent?
Sympathise & hope daughter isn’t too affected by this.
Op just want to highlight a couple of things
The folk on here are probably fairly impartial & usually try to be helpful & offer constructive advice.
You/Mrs are emotionally involved in this & those around you probably won’t want to upset you by offering contradicting opinions to your own - (no such filter on PH)
Consider for a moment, there are two sides to every story - we’ve only been presented with your version & that on its own has not sold people on Morrisons responsibility. (& their version of events is unlikely to change that).
Accidents do happen, & experience is gained by mistakes. This is something probably best put behind you now.
Op just want to highlight a couple of things
The folk on here are probably fairly impartial & usually try to be helpful & offer constructive advice.
You/Mrs are emotionally involved in this & those around you probably won’t want to upset you by offering contradicting opinions to your own - (no such filter on PH)
Consider for a moment, there are two sides to every story - we’ve only been presented with your version & that on its own has not sold people on Morrisons responsibility. (& their version of events is unlikely to change that).
Accidents do happen, & experience is gained by mistakes. This is something probably best put behind you now.
vaud said:
Children have rights to be safe and protected.
Parents have responsibilities.
Sorry but you failed in the latter. This is not on Morrisons for placing a tray in the middle of a table which would be a reasonable place to put a tray with two responsible parents present.
Hard as it may be to accept, I think this is on you both.
(Dad of two young-ish daughters)
OP I stand my prior post but will add some context.Parents have responsibilities.
Sorry but you failed in the latter. This is not on Morrisons for placing a tray in the middle of a table which would be a reasonable place to put a tray with two responsible parents present.
Hard as it may be to accept, I think this is on you both.
(Dad of two young-ish daughters)
When my youngest was about 8 months old she stuck her hand in my wifes (hot) porridge causing a bad scald that needed regular hospital visits. Not sure I will forget the screams when the skin was being debrided. Fortunately it did heal fully but it took time. The responsibility was on us as parents to have kept her away from that risk.
Edited by vaud on Wednesday 1st May 11:16
Julian Thompson said:
Sorry to hear about the whole incident I’m sure it was terrible and I hope for a full and speedy recovery.
If I was going to defend Morrisons, my argument would be that tables are for serving food. Since the injured one year old was in a high chair you had control of where the baby was positioned in relation to the food serving area. One year old babies in high chairs do not have octopus like reach, and so, rather than the server being at fault, I would say that you placed the child too close to the table. If the high chair had been just two inches further away you would have built in some safety margin, and the accident would have been avoided.
Well put. I wish I had the brains to post it like that - alas I'm too dim. I let the OP statement get my back up as to me it reeked of blame and dreams of compo. Sorry to anyone I might of annoyed on my crusade for justice for the low paid, OP included.If I was going to defend Morrisons, my argument would be that tables are for serving food. Since the injured one year old was in a high chair you had control of where the baby was positioned in relation to the food serving area. One year old babies in high chairs do not have octopus like reach, and so, rather than the server being at fault, I would say that you placed the child too close to the table. If the high chair had been just two inches further away you would have built in some safety margin, and the accident would have been avoided.
Without seeing the exact layout of the table etc it is difficult for me to be as harsh as some on here
I also think tis a bit insulting to say those that work in shops/minimum should have no common sense. Remember that part of negligence is that we potentially have a duty of care to others.
If I was serving someone tea in my living room and there were 2 children running about and the parent was say distracted fixing something on the back of the TV and not focussed on the children, I wouldn't leave hot tea on the table and walk off.
I'm not saying the staff IS to blame legally or morally but equally there is a scenario where they perhaps could have waited just a second or two to ensure one parent had the hot drink under control.
I also think tis a bit insulting to say those that work in shops/minimum should have no common sense. Remember that part of negligence is that we potentially have a duty of care to others.
If I was serving someone tea in my living room and there were 2 children running about and the parent was say distracted fixing something on the back of the TV and not focussed on the children, I wouldn't leave hot tea on the table and walk off.
I'm not saying the staff IS to blame legally or morally but equally there is a scenario where they perhaps could have waited just a second or two to ensure one parent had the hot drink under control.
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